You are a very efficient lady! Yes, The entry in 1916 for Elizabeth Lilian & kids is correct, as are the entries in the 1920 and 1930 census. The last child, Alan, was my father. The family name Klomann, dropped the final n. "It is interesting to note that in 1930 Elizabeth is now Lillian and she and Peter and Leslie and Paul are being shown shown as being born in New Jersey, the same as Allan. I wonder who gave the information?" I think that G'dad Peter gave the information. As an illegal alien, or as someone who didn't apply for naturalization, he was concerned about being grabbed up by offcialdom and being deported. I believe he left Germany to avoid military service, and left England to avoid being interned. Which is why he would claim that the kids were all born in New Jersey. Who would know otherwise? More significant to me - I hadn't noticed in the census - is that Elizabeth is now Lilian. I have been dithering as to whether there were 12 or 13 kids in her family - and this is another clue that there were 12 - Elizabeth & Lilian was one person, not two. I went to the websites you suggested. There is a lot of information. I've narrowed the timeframe down to August thru Oct. 1914, into Eastern Canada - Quebec most likely. I do wish there were a way to get or develop a list of the ships arriving in Quebec during my designated time frame. In addition to the various mispellings of Kloman, he could have travelled under one of the names in the family tree. Thank you for the suggestion about details. Altho I often feel that my queries include too many details, go on too long, and finally obscure the main questions. Thank you again - Liz -- Sue Swiggum <swig@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: Hi Liz, I found your earlier email. Did the family arrive on the CALIFORNIA on April 6th 1916? At 04:45 PM 2006-07-21 -0300, ekloman1@juno.com wrote: >My German grandfather married a Liverpool woman in 1909 and they had 3 >children, all born in England. When World War One started, the English >began interning German nationals. My grandfather told my dad that he >'slipped over the border from Canada'. And on the 1930 census, he does >cite 1914 as the year of entry. They were living in Falmouth from 1912 or >so. But grandmother had a large family in Liverpool and Liverpool is the >residence she gave on the manifest when she & the kids came over, arriving >at Ellis Island in 1916.. >So he would have come in on a ship out of Falmouth or Liverpool, to a >Canadian port before it iced up - August to what, October, 1914? Where >would the manifest be? How could I access it? Thank you for your help. >Liz If so, I see them listed as Elizabeth Klomer (rather than Kloman), 28 ; Grace Lillian 5, Peter Leslie, 3 and Paul, 2. They were leaving mother / grandmother Alice Hughes . . Kirkdale, Liverpool, going to husband Peter Klomer, 322 East 51st St. NY. Is that the right family ? I guess this is the right family as I see them in the 1920 census, Essex, NJ and it also says 1914 for Peter and 1916 for Elizabeth and the children. Peter Leslie is called Leslie Peter and they have another som Alan, 2 years and 10 months old. Peter was born in Baden. On one page the family name is Kloman (transcribed as Koman / Klaman) and on the second page as either Klamman or Klauman. It is interesting to note that in 1930 Elizabeth is now Lillian and she and Peter and Leslie and Paul are being shown shown as being born in New Jersey, the same as Allan. I wonder who gave the information? As an aside . . . when you send a query, it is always a good idea to include as many details about the family as you can. You never know what records other listers may have access to. :-} There were over 450 ships from England carrying passengers to Canada in 1914, then if you add in those arriving via US ports, another 200+. There was Halifax and St. John as well as Quebec. Of those to Quebec, there were so very many for the period you want to know about. By far your best approach is to keep in mind all the possible spellings, and then search the index for the passenger manifests for the CAN-US border records, the St. Albans lists. US via Canada http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm#St.Albans M-1461 Soundex Index to Canadian Border Entries through the St. Albans, VT, District After you locate the NARA microfilm number, make sure you check the link called "Immigration Microfilm CATalog Converter" to check the LDS film numbers for the same microfilm. The card index will tell you lots of details should you find Peter. If you find him (because it is really quite possible he travelled under an alias) you will be pointed toward the arrival manifest NARA M-1464, which will tell you the ship and port of arrival, so then you can also go after the Canadian record for the same arrival. Those are not indexed, so this why it is great if you can find him on the St. Albans record. If he did "work passage" as a waiter, you might have to settle for ship arrival information, as there will be no Canadian record for service crew. Good luck, Sue -- TheShipsList Website http://www.theshipslist.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!