Hi Mark, I'm sure that you have found Katharina "Stumpold." The missing Josephine is a puzzle to me too. btw. she was going to husband Hermann. She was 37 .. it was overwritten, but the 7 has a slash through it (check the others on the page.) Her Mum's name looks more like Anna Silvolka ;-} I looked up Hermann's emigration in 1907 and as he travelled on the KROONLAND (same shipping line) from Antwerp (same port of departure) it would follow that his family would take the same route. I expect you've found him before, but if not, HERMANN STUMFAL/ STUMFEL arrived at New York on August 6th 1907, entered twice ... (wrongly indexed as 71, then correctly as 41, where he was held for one day as a "likely public charge. [LPC]") ... he was leaving behind Katherina Stumfal at "..Gurohomura..?" ... there is too much written over who he as going to, for me to be able to figure it out. Likely someone vouched for him, for him to be held for one day only. I think it is highly unlikely that the child would have been omitted from the list. Even if they'd missed including her with her mother, there would have been cross-references. They were very good at making relationship notes. At only 3 in 1910, I don't think she would have any/many memories of such a trip. I wonder if she stayed with Grandma and that Mum went back later, to get her ...or, she arrived later with a friend or relative. In the 1900's to would expect her to be travelling under her own name, listed as niece for example. My ggrandmother had gone to Australia with her aunt in 1862 and was not listed under her own name, but collectively under her aunt's married name and age 7 rather than 9 ... took a while to prove that one, the final step being that aunt's death certificate showing "no issue." Going to northern IL ... Johnsburg? ... there is a possibility of Canadian arrival too. I looked at the family in the 1920 census and it shows 1910 for both Josephine and her mother ... curiously father says he emigrated in 1896, however, on the 1907 manifest, it says he had never been in the US before. I wonder who answered the questions? The actual Emigration Year on both naturalization (for those who arrived prior to 1906) and on census forms is the most misremembered part of the date ... usually by 1 to 3 years ... 11 years is a bit of a stretch. btw. you are right about how many spellings of the surname ... wow ! Sue -- TheShipsList Website http://www.theshipslist.com/ At 08:55 PM 2010-03-14 -0400, mark-toss wrote: >I searched the archives and didn't see anything similar to my question, so >I thought I would post it here. If there is a better place for me to >look, please let me know. > >My father heard stories from his mother Josephine regarding her trip (with >her mother Katharina) from Eastern Europe to New York in the 1910-1913 >timeframe. Katharina & Josephine Stumpholl travelled from the little town >of Gura Humora (aka Gura Humorolui) in the Suceava, Bukovina region of >greater Austria, in what is now northern Romania. Around 1880, Gura Humora >had around 3,000 residents. There might have been twice that number >living there in 1910. The family were native German speakers. Katharina >and child were emigrating to join her husband, Hermann Stumpholl, in >northern Illinois. By the way, there are many spellings of the surname, >including Stumvoll, Stumfol, Stumpal, etc. > >I think I have found my Katharina Stumpholl on the SS Lapland, sailing >from Antwerp 7 May 1910 and arriving at New York on 16 May 1910. Line 2 >of the manifest has a Katerzina Stumphold, "race or people" German, last >permanent residence "Gorahumora", travelling to Illinois to join her >husband (name unreadable, unfortunately). The age of this passenger has >been hand-corrected and is hard to read, but it could be 34 -- *my* >Katharina would have been 37 when the ship sailed. This passenger's >nearest relative in the country of origin appears to be given as "Anna >Sibrolks". The mother of my Katharina is named in a Romanian probate >document as Anna Szyprowski. This passenger on the Lapland certainly >looks like a good match with my great-grandmother. > >Here's the problem... There is no child listed as traveling with her. I >quickly read through each of the manifest images -- roughly 1,000 names -- >in case her daughter Josephine/Josepha Stumpholl was not listed on the >same page. I did not see Josephine anywhere. I should note that >Josephine would have been only 3-1/2 years old in 1910, so her later >memories of the trip were probably augmented by stories from her mother, >but I don't know of any alternative to her travelling with her mother to >the US in the right time period. > >And here's the question... Is is likely or even possible that a 3 year >old child could have travelled with her mother on the Lapland without >being listed on the manifest? > >Many thanks in advance. This has me really puzzled. > >Mark Klan >Knoxville, Tennessee

Thank you, Sue, for your analysis and insights. You clearly spent some time looking into the question and I really appreciate it. Your opinion that "Katerzina Stumphold" is my Katharina is useful to me, because I was beginning to doubt my own interpretation (due to the lack of her child Josephine accompanying her). There certainly seem to be plenty of specifics confirming that Katharina and Katerzina are one and the same. Indeed I have the Hermann Stumfal/Stumfel records for the 1907 Kroonland arrival. Hermann, Katharina, and Josephine were together in Ottawa, La Salle County, Illinois in the 1920 census. Hermann and Katharina both died there later in that decade. Much of what I know about Hermann's family is from a probate court in La Salle. It's hard to read, but I think the 1910 Lapland manifest indicates that Katerzina/Katharina's final destination was with her husband Hermann at Galesburg, Illinois (spelled more like Galesbierg in the manifest). If this is Galesburg, it is about 75 miles southwest of Ottawa, in a different county. I particularly appreciate your opinion that it is unlikely that Katharina would be travelling with her 3-year-old daughter Josephine and that this fact would be omitted from the manifest. Obviously, this is critical to determining what actually transpired. The family "story" is that Katharina travelled with daughter Josephine to join Hermann in Illinois, leaving another daughter (Karoline) behind in Austria/Romania with an aunt. Then at some point Hermann supposedly travelled back to Romania to bring Karoline to the US with him, but the aunt insisted that Karoline stay with her, and Hermann returned empty-handed. I have been unable *so far* to locate a later travel record for Hermann and/or Josephine, for what that's worth. Based on what I have found from the manifests, the family story appears to be incorrect as to Josephine travelling with Katharina. If I can find a later record of Josephine travelling to the US by herself or with her father (or anyone else), then that would certainly confirm that key parts of the story are incorrect. Thanks again. Maybe I'm not going crazy after all... :-) Mark Monday, March 15, 2010, 11:45:31 AM, Sue wrote: > Hi Mark, > I'm sure that you have found Katharina "Stumpold." The missing Josephine > is a puzzle to me too. btw. she was going to husband Hermann. She was 37 > .. it was overwritten, but the 7 has a slash through it (check the others > on the page.) Her Mum's name looks more like Anna Silvolka ;-} > I looked up Hermann's emigration in 1907 and as he travelled on the > KROONLAND (same shipping line) from Antwerp (same port of departure) it > would follow that his family would take the same route. I expect you've > found him before, but if not, HERMANN STUMFAL/ STUMFEL arrived at New York > on August 6th 1907, entered twice ... (wrongly indexed as 71, then > correctly as 41, where he was held for one day as a "likely public charge. > [LPC]") ... he was leaving behind Katherina Stumfal at "..Gurohomura..?" > ... there is too much written over who he as going to, for me to be able > to figure it out. Likely someone vouched for him, for him to be held for > one day only. > I think it is highly unlikely that the child would have been omitted from > the list. Even if they'd missed including her with her mother, there > would have been cross-references. They were very good at making > relationship notes. At only 3 in 1910, I don't think she would have > any/many memories of such a trip. I wonder if she stayed with Grandma and > that Mum went back later, to get her ...or, she arrived later with a friend > or relative. In the 1900's to would expect her to be travelling under > her own name, listed as niece for example. My ggrandmother had gone to > Australia with her aunt in 1862 and was not listed under her own name, but > collectively under her aunt's married name and age 7 rather than 9 ... took > a while to prove that one, the final step being that aunt's death > certificate showing "no issue." > Going to northern IL ... Johnsburg? ... there is a possibility of Canadian > arrival too. > I looked at the family in the 1920 census and it shows 1910 for both > Josephine and her mother ... curiously father says he emigrated in 1896, > however, on the 1907 manifest, it says he had never been in the US > before. I wonder who answered the questions? The actual Emigration Year > on both naturalization (for those who arrived prior to 1906) and on census > forms is the most misremembered part of the date ... usually by 1 to 3 > years ... 11 years is a bit of a stretch. > btw. you are right about how many spellings of the surname ... wow ! > Sue