Since it has be very quiet on the list, thought I would take this time to open discussion on Leofric, Earl of Mercia. Before I go any farther, let me say up front, that this is NOT an endorsement of the belief that the Temples descend from Leofric. Indeed, if asked, I would say that this belief is sorely lacking in proof. Yet, at the same time, this is an era in history of great interest to me. So, let’s open a friendly and hopefully, beneficial debate on this subject. Maybe you can change my mind :-) The accuracy of the Leofric’s lineage is something that I can’t determine, as I have found only one very ancient book showing the lineage. And it has been my experience in looking at books showing Royal or Noble descent they can vary greatly - especially the early history. So, this is what I have on Leofric’s line of descent: Leofric, Leuricus comes Leycestriae ?716-757? (Comes is a Count). issue: Aelfgar I comes, d 810? issue: Aelfgar II comes, d 851? issue: Leofric II Dugd. Mon. (I have no idea what the initials stand for) issue: 1. Leofwine 2. Leofric III Leofwine, son of Leofric II had issue: 1. Leofric, Earl of Leicester c 1023, Earl of Mercia c1026, d 3 Aug 1057 m Godgifu, Lady Godiva of Coventry, sister of Thorold of Bukenhale. 2. Eadwine d 1039 battle against the Welsh at Rhydy-Groes 3. Godwine (had Aethelwine d c 1014) 4. Northman (Norman), d 1017 in London Leofric, Earl of Mercia and Lady Godiva had: Aelfgar, Earl of East Angles c1053, Earl of Mercia c1057 m Aelfgifu Alveva. Issue: 1. Eadwine (Edwin), Earl of Mecia d c1072 2. Morkere (Morcar), Earl Northumberland alive in 1087 3. Burhhead Burchardus 4. Ealdgyth m1 Gruffydd Griffin, King of Wales (d 1063) m2 Harold II (d 1066) - no issue. With King Gruffydd she had Nest 5. Lucia m Ivo Tallebois And that is all I could find on Leofric’s genealogy. Leofric is historical recorded as being a man of moderation and reason. "Not that the forbearance of Leofric, the 'dear ruler' should be judged outside the context of his time. According to Florence of Worcester, he crushed a revolt in Worcestershire with such savagery that the shire town was depopulated..." The Making of The King 1066 by Alan Lloyd "In the year following this peace Earl Leofric died, to the grief of all men ‘for he was very wise for God and also for the world, which was a blessing to this nation" A History of England Before the Norman Conquest by Sir Charles Oman Some other resources that I would recommend on England’s early history: Edward the Confessor by Frank Barlow The Normans and the Norman Conquest by R. Allen Brown The Age of Arthur - A History of the British Isles from 350-650 by John Morris The passages I find most intriguing are from Edward the Confessor: "... and Earl Leofric was a member of an old and distinguished Mercian family" speaking of Leofric..." He was married to an Englishwoman, Godgifu or Godiva, and, although no English patriot, was a man of honour, religion, and loyal." So, let’s jump to the Kingdom of Mercia (The Marchland) "The Mercians are described by Bede as being divided into two subtribes - the North and South Mercians - by the river Trent; but there is little reason to think that there were ever two distinct kingdoms among them." footnote: The only reason for thinking of such a possibility is the mention by Bede of a Cearl king of the Mercians who does not appear in the royal genealogy. " A History of England Before the Norman Conquest "The Mercians. South of the Trent the kings who followed Penda built a powerfull monarchy, which retained its supremacy into the 9th century." The Age of Arthur - A History of the British Isles from 350-650 I could list the Kings of Mercia, but there would be little point since we don't know how or even if Leofric's family fits into them. I will stop here and open the floor to discussion and/or debate... Joanne