With apologies to the List Moderator. Now I'll probably get hate mail from this also, but I'm only trying to explain, especially Joyce, my message has been totally misunderstood by many. Linda Lambert wrote: >Ok, I've kept my mouth shut so far....but this is getting ridiculous..... > >Whatever happened to kindness, tolerance and good will? > > I agree, Linda, and although I am the one who unintentionally started this by making the mistake of trying to use "kindness, tolerance and good will", and the one who has been receiving quite a bit of off the list "hate mail", I have been keeping quiet about it as the List Manager asked ALL (CAPS were used for emphasis as they are intended to be used by internet tradition) of us to do days ago. But since no one else seems to be following her request, and I have been called about every ugly thing in the book, mostly in private off the list email, I need to step in here and set a few things straight about what I said, why I said it, and most of all the way in which I intended it to be taken by Joyce. First of all I never flamed or was rude to anyone as I have been accused of being. I personally didn't care what type font case Joyce typed in as I always simply delete without reading anything written in all CAPS as they are much harder to read. I emailed Joyce with "kindness, tolerance and good will" in mind. I am aware that CAPS upset many people (for reasons I understand with the experience I have online) and I wanted to let her know how internet tradition looks at it BEFORE someone else emailed her with a flame for sending her messages that way. I was trying to help her to avoid that situation. I unintentionally had it still addressed to the list, yet I received NO bad comments from it until I later discovered I had sent it to the list so I sent an apology that I had sent private email to the list. I guess some of you saw it was an apology and instantly read into it that I had sent something that I felt was wrong or rude so I suddenly began receiving hate mail for trying to help someone. So much for trying to be helpful. That is something that used to be good in this world and on the internet, and I have been thanked profusely in the past for emails about this very subject, but in today's internet climate it seems that sending a kindly worded message to point something out to someone is taboo. It just goes to show what type of world we are now becoming. I think the impersonal world of the internet is actually harming the ability of people to understand, communicate, and get along. Even the list manager has emailed me and told me she saw nothing wrong with what I wrote, so I guess it was just a case of "mob hysteria" where one person misunderstood and sent a reply which made others misunderstand and jump to the wrong conclusions. Then everyone started jumping on the bandwagon. Thank God that I have also been receiving a few private emails which have supported me and said they felt the same way. Unfortunately most of those sending them have also said that they do not have the nerve to send their message of support to the list after seeing some of the responses I have received as they may also be branded as the "bad guys". Some of the comments have asked what difference does it make. It not only makes a difference in readability, but capitalized fonts in email have ALWAYS symbolized emphasis. This has been tradition since day one. It's nothing new at all. A previous message saying it started in the chat rooms was totally incorrect. It was an etiquette rule on the internet long before there were chat rooms, even before there was email. In fact it was an etiquette rule in computer communications before there was even an internet. It was a rule on BBS bulletin boards before the internet even came into being. Many of them would ban you for using all CAPS. It actually began in the days of ArpaNet ( ArpaNet history at http://www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/docs/arpa--1.html ) , a network of college research and military computers that was the predecessor of the internet, back in the early 1970's. Since tone and volume of voice could not been seen through a computer that was the recognized method of showing screaming, emphasis, or anger. Which one it was was determined by the wording it accompanied. From this grew UseNet, which still exists as Newsgroups and where it has also always been a rule, again before there was internet email. Commonly the only reply anyone would ever get on the Newsgroups if they sent a message in all CAPS was along the lines of, "STOP SCREAMING AT US OR NONE OF US WILL ANSWER YOU!" This was also true in the early days of internet email until the big rush of new users in the latter '90s when everyone started getting computers. People would either "YELL" back at you or you would get no response at all from anyone. That meaning has continued in use until this day, and MOST internet savy people who have been online for a few or more years (I've been on around 20. Many years before the internet came into existence), or any of those who have ever read a list of the Do's and Don'ts of email etiquette, recognize it as such. A list of the common rules of email etiquette is found here ( http://www.emailreplies.com/ ). You will notice the list includes : *"Do not write in CAPITALS. *IF YOU WRITE IN CAPITALS IT SEEMS AS IF YOU ARE SHOUTING. This can be highly annoying and might trigger an unwanted response in the form of a flame mail. Therefore, try not to send any email text in capitals. "While there are several versions of this list online they all have basically the same items in the list and the rule about CAPS is in all of them. Now to the use of CAPS by the vision impaired. Several studies have been done, for research on teaching speed reading and reading skills, which have all proved that all CAPS is harder to read for everyone, even for the vision impaired. (The list manager also told me she has seen this also). The mind recognizes words it sees often by the shape of the word, not the individual letters. Just as your hear complete words by sound, your eyes see complete words by shape. With all CAPS there is no shape. Just a square or rectangle so you have to take the extra time to see each individual letter, something which is harder and more time consuming for even the vision impaired. And after all, CAPS doesn't make anything bigger or easier to see. The overall size of the letter is still the same, but it removes the helpful shape making it harder. Only increasing the font size you see on your screen can make it larger and easier to see. This is something I have had to do on my own computer, as I TOO am vision impaired. The studies have shown that those vision impaired people who think they are seeing better with all CAPS are merely having a "placebo" effect. I do however feel that the arthritis sufferers do have a valid point, though I have it painfully bad in both of my thumbs and I don't let it stop my from following the etiquette rules to avoid offending or misleading others. You see... Depending on how their text is worded, if someone uses all CAPS, and the message is received by someone who has always known about the meaning of CAPS in email, they could easily think they are being yelled at and be offended. I was trying to help the person to whom I meant my reply to go to avoid this problem. I wasn't offended, nor upset, with her CAPS and I sent nothing to her with any ill intentions or intentions of being rude, though I also never read her email since it was all CAPS. If I had ill intentions I would have used CAPS and "yelled" at her when I sent my reply. One more question, and the list moderator agreed she has the same question. If people are using CAPS so they can see better, why? They are not the ones who will be seeing the message. The intended receivers (sounds like a football game) are the people on the list, not the sender. It is the people on the list who need to see it better, and as I said, the studies show the people receiving it will not only not see it better, they will not see it as well in CAPS. So what does it help? To those who think this is some new rule I have come up with, I have know of cases for many years where people have been banned from varying lists or chatrooms for continuing to use CAPS after being warned by a moderator. I have seen many flame wars started by someone misunderstanding something as yelling or a flame simply because it was in CAPS. So now I have explained my intentions and the reasoning behind them. I have explained, hopefully in a manner that you will all understand, that I sent nothing rude and that I was trying to be helpful to the lady so she would NOT be YELLED at by anyone. Hopefully now everyone will let this be the end of this instead of all these messages over and over making a big deal over a simple misunderstood message. Maybe everyone will now follow the modererator's request from days ago to let the subject drop. To the person who says I may have ticked of a distant relative.. If so then I am sorry, but I was trying to be helpful to someone and keep them from having problems. If it hurts my ancestory search to save someone else from having future problems then so be it. If the choice has to be made I would rather help someone else than not help them to help my own search. To Marilyn, the List Manager, First my apologies to you for making these comments to the list, but I am tired of being made out to be the bad guy for trying to be helpful. I had to try to get people to understand my reasoning as you seemed to do so clearly. What I said to you about becoming a lurker now on this list still stands. I have seen that trying to be helpful in this day and age, trying to show the Christmas spirit and help someone, with the type of hostile attitudes people in this day are now getting, is a mistake. I'll just watch and hope I see something in someone's message I can use, but after some of the things I have read, ESPECIALLY in private emails, simply because I tried to be politely helpful to someone before they get flamed by someone else, I'll be #$% if I'll ever open my mouth to try to help anyone here again. It's not worth running into the type of people who now seem to be rapidly populating the internet, and genealogy lists in particular. It did not used to be like this. I don't understand why I am on over 150 lists for genealogy, amateur radio, photography, religious, tropical birds and several other topics, and yet the only place I have been regularly seeing these type of hostile attitudes has been on the genealogy lists. You would expect the exact opposite. Tim Kemp

PLLEEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEEE STOP SENDING THIS JUNK TO MY COMPUPTER. YES I AM YELLING!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. WE UNDERSTAND!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: Tim Kemp [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [TAYLOR] CAPS! It's time to get over it and on with geneaolgy! With apologies to the List Moderator. Now I'll probably get hate mail from this also, but I'm only trying to explain, especially Joyce, my message has been totally misunderstood by many. Linda Lambert wrote: >Ok, I've kept my mouth shut so far....but this is getting ridiculous..... > >Whatever happened to kindness, tolerance and good will? > > I agree, Linda, and although I am the one who unintentionally started this by making the mistake of trying to use "kindness, tolerance and good will", and the one who has been receiving quite a bit of off the list "hate mail", I have been keeping quiet about it as the List Manager asked ALL (CAPS were used for emphasis as they are intended to be used by internet tradition) of us to do days ago. But since no one else seems to be following her request, and I have been called about every ugly thing in the book, mostly in private off the list email, I need to step in here and set a few things straight about what I said, why I said it, and most of all the way in which I intended it to be taken by Joyce. First of all I never flamed or was rude to anyone as I have been accused of being. I personally didn't care what type font case Joyce typed in as I always simply delete without reading anything written in all CAPS as they are much harder to read. I emailed Joyce with "kindness, tolerance and good will" in mind. I am aware that CAPS upset many people (for reasons I understand with the experience I have online) and I wanted to let her know how internet tradition looks at it BEFORE someone else emailed her with a flame for sending her messages that way. I was trying to help her to avoid that situation. I unintentionally had it still addressed to the list, yet I received NO bad comments from it until I later discovered I had sent it to the list so I sent an apology that I had sent private email to the list. I guess some of you saw it was an apology and instantly read into it that I had sent something that I felt was wrong or rude so I suddenly began receiving hate mail for trying to help someone. So much for trying to be helpful. That is something that used to be good in this world and on the internet, and I have been thanked profusely in the past for emails about this very subject, but in today's internet climate it seems that sending a kindly worded message to point something out to someone is taboo. It just goes to show what type of world we are now becoming. I think the impersonal world of the internet is actually harming the ability of people to understand, communicate, and get along. Even the list manager has emailed me and told me she saw nothing wrong with what I wrote, so I guess it was just a case of "mob hysteria" where one person misunderstood and sent a reply which made others misunderstand and jump to the wrong conclusions. Then everyone started jumping on the bandwagon. Thank God that I have also been receiving a few private emails which have supported me and said they felt the same way. Unfortunately most of those sending them have also said that they do not have the nerve to send their message of support to the list after seeing some of the responses I have received as they may also be branded as the "bad guys". Some of the comments have asked what difference does it make. It not only makes a difference in readability, but capitalized fonts in email have ALWAYS symbolized emphasis. This has been tradition since day one. It's nothing new at all. A previous message saying it started in the chat rooms was totally incorrect. It was an etiquette rule on the internet long before there were chat rooms, even before there was email. In fact it was an etiquette rule in computer communications before there was even an internet. It was a rule on BBS bulletin boards before the internet even came into being. Many of them would ban you for using all CAPS. It actually began in the days of ArpaNet ( ArpaNet history at http://www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/docs/arpa--1.html ) , a network of college research and military computers that was the predecessor of the internet, back in the early 1970's. Since tone and volume of voice could not been seen through a computer that was the recognized method of showing screaming, emphasis, or anger. Which one it was was determined by the wording it accompanied. From this grew UseNet, which still exists as Newsgroups and where it has also always been a rule, again before there was internet email. Commonly the only reply anyone would ever get on the Newsgroups if they sent a message in all CAPS was along the lines of, "STOP SCREAMING AT US OR NONE OF US WILL ANSWER YOU!" This was also true in the early days of internet email until the big rush of new users in the latter '90s when everyone started getting computers. People would either "YELL" back at you or you would get no response at all from anyone. That meaning has continued in use until this day, and MOST internet savy people who have been online for a few or more years (I've been on around 20. Many years before the internet came into existence), or any of those who have ever read a list of the Do's and Don'ts of email etiquette, recognize it as such. A list of the common rules of email etiquette is found here ( http://www.emailreplies.com/ ). You will notice the list includes : *"Do not write in CAPITALS. *IF YOU WRITE IN CAPITALS IT SEEMS AS IF YOU ARE SHOUTING. This can be highly annoying and might trigger an unwanted response in the form of a flame mail. Therefore, try not to send any email text in capitals. "While there are several versions of this list online they all have basically the same items in the list and the rule about CAPS is in all of them. Now to the use of CAPS by the vision impaired. Several studies have been done, for research on teaching speed reading and reading skills, which have all proved that all CAPS is harder to read for everyone, even for the vision impaired. (The list manager also told me she has seen this also). The mind recognizes words it sees often by the shape of the word, not the individual letters. Just as your hear complete words by sound, your eyes see complete words by shape. With all CAPS there is no shape. Just a square or rectangle so you have to take the extra time to see each individual letter, something which is harder and more time consuming for even the vision impaired. And after all, CAPS doesn't make anything bigger or easier to see. The overall size of the letter is still the same, but it removes the helpful shape making it harder. Only increasing the font size you see on your screen can make it larger and easier to see. This is something I have had to do on my own computer, as I TOO am vision impaired. The studies have shown that those vision impaired people who think they are seeing better with all CAPS are merely having a "placebo" effect. I do however feel that the arthritis sufferers do have a valid point, though I have it painfully bad in both of my thumbs and I don't let it stop my from following the etiquette rules to avoid offending or misleading others. You see... Depending on how their text is worded, if someone uses all CAPS, and the message is received by someone who has always known about the meaning of CAPS in email, they could easily think they are being yelled at and be offended. I was trying to help the person to whom I meant my reply to go to avoid this problem. I wasn't offended, nor upset, with her CAPS and I sent nothing to her with any ill intentions or intentions of being rude, though I also never read her email since it was all CAPS. If I had ill intentions I would have used CAPS and "yelled" at her when I sent my reply. One more question, and the list moderator agreed she has the same question. If people are using CAPS so they can see better, why? They are not the ones who will be seeing the message. The intended receivers (sounds like a football game) are the people on the list, not the sender. It is the people on the list who need to see it better, and as I said, the studies show the people receiving it will not only not see it better, they will not see it as well in CAPS. So what does it help? To those who think this is some new rule I have come up with, I have know of cases for many years where people have been banned from varying lists or chatrooms for continuing to use CAPS after being warned by a moderator. I have seen many flame wars started by someone misunderstanding something as yelling or a flame simply because it was in CAPS. So now I have explained my intentions and the reasoning behind them. I have explained, hopefully in a manner that you will all understand, that I sent nothing rude and that I was trying to be helpful to the lady so she would NOT be YELLED at by anyone. Hopefully now everyone will let this be the end of this instead of all these messages over and over making a big deal over a simple misunderstood message. Maybe everyone will now follow the modererator's request from days ago to let the subject drop. To the person who says I may have ticked of a distant relative.. If so then I am sorry, but I was trying to be helpful to someone and keep them from having problems. If it hurts my ancestory search to save someone else from having future problems then so be it. If the choice has to be made I would rather help someone else than not help them to help my own search. To Marilyn, the List Manager, First my apologies to you for making these comments to the list, but I am tired of being made out to be the bad guy for trying to be helpful. I had to try to get people to understand my reasoning as you seemed to do so clearly. What I said to you about becoming a lurker now on this list still stands. I have seen that trying to be helpful in this day and age, trying to show the Christmas spirit and help someone, with the type of hostile attitudes people in this day are now getting, is a mistake. I'll just watch and hope I see something in someone's message I can use, but after some of the things I have read, ESPECIALLY in private emails, simply because I tried to be politely helpful to someone before they get flamed by someone else, I'll be #$% if I'll ever open my mouth to try to help anyone here again. It's not worth running into the type of people who now seem to be rapidly populating the internet, and genealogy lists in particular. It did not used to be like this. I don't understand why I am on over 150 lists for genealogy, amateur radio, photography, religious, tropical birds and several other topics, and yet the only place I have been regularly seeing these type of hostile attitudes has been on the genealogy lists. You would expect the exact opposite. Tim Kemp ==== TAYLOR Mailing List ==== Be specific in your Subject line. Include info (surnames, location, events) to catch the attention of the readers. Users may delete if subject is vague or missing. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx