Clyde, I want to repeat how much I appreciate your contributions. I am at work, as I mentioned earlier, so don't have access to all my notes, files, etc. I have here only an older not updated database -- my home version having changed significantly over time ... so I am unable to respond as I would like to, also ... hence the omissions in my earlier post <g> It is the census and land plats that I find most intriguing. I want to study that info again ... it is certainly worth looking at with the Dempsey family data side by side ... I would like to have a few of the Dempsey Tarver researchers' comments as well. That is to be my first plan. I will pull together my notes tying Thomas to Dempsey's family ... I know Dempsey has a son Thomas and I have him, in this database, married to Mary Ann Tarver ... Also the James H. Wactor signature on the Thomas and Mary Ann marr bond is interesting as Dempsey's kids married into the Wactor family heavily ... but that is not enough to go on ... as I say, I don't have enough here at the office to forward to you, but definitely am going over this for my own peace of mind as well :> A couple of questions for you too ... before you get out of town ... I've seen Wilson on researcher's notes named as Samuel Wilson "Wiltz" Tarver before ... as you also name him, but have not seen docs for this myself. Wilson was my 3rd great grandfather ... Wilson, Samuel Wilson, James Wilson, John Wesley ... then my mother. The line on the maternal side is also the same Tarver line. Wilson, John Edward J. Tarver, Permelia Ann, John Wesley ... then my mother. Wilson in both cases being the same s/o Judith Cockerham Tarver. You can see why I definitely would like to get the line sorted. One question: Have you seen anything official to indicate Wilson was actually Samuel Wilson "Wiltz" Tarver? I would like to add copies of that to my files if you have that in yours. Samuel Wilson and John Edward J.'s and James Wilson's dates I have from my grandmother's bible, which was given me after her death by my step-grandmother. I was still a child at the time and have been grateful in later years that I packed it away and still have it in good order. Unfortunately, she gives the info only for husbands grandparents and great grandparents and does not name the siblings in either family. Still, other records identify children in these families. [Another treasure I have from an aunt is my grandmother's diary.] I have not identified in census nor personal records a child Cleveland, brother to Samuel Wilson and John Edward J. Tarver. The other children whom I list are: Samuel Wilson Tarver b. Oct 31, 1825 Eliza Jane Tarver b. 1828 Lunsford G. Tarver b. 1832 John Edward J. Tarver b. Oct 05, 1835 Martha Elizabeth Tarver b. 1838 Sara Ann Rebecca Tarver b. 1840 Felix Cecil Frederick Tarver b. 1843 Malinda E. Tarver b. 1847 On the group sheets you mailed, you do not include Lunsford, but you do list Thomas B. and Cleveland as younger brothers of Samuel Wilson. As you can see, I list neither a Thomas B. nor a Cleveland among the siblings ... You're right, I overlooked mentioning that Wilson was hh 132 in the 1850 census, which I believe you have in your records. It showed: : 1850 Amite Co., MS Census, Microfilm M432-368, Pg.65A 22 188 188 Tarver, Wilson 46 M Blacksmith S.C. 23 188 188 Tarver, Melinda 45 F Geo 24 188 188 Tarver, Eliza J. 22 F Pike Co Miss 25 188 188 Tarver, ***ford 18 M Farmer Pike Co Miss 26 188 188 Tarver, John E. J. 15 M Maddison Co Miss 27 188 188 Tarver, Martha E. 12 F Amite Co Miss 28 188 188 Tarver, Sarah A. R. 10 F Amite Co Miss 29 188 188 Tarver, F. C. T. 7 M Amite Co Miss 30 188 188 Tarver, Milinda E. 3 F Amite Co Miss It's all very intriguing and I am anxious to spread it on my desk at home and begin a close inspection of what I have on these families and Dempsey's to see how it all sorts out. Your packet was the perfect incentive to spend some time regrouping and analyzing what is in the files on these lines. With luck and time, I will post additional from the files onto the website and/or the mail list and we can get feedback from others as well. Although your group sheet did not list Lunsford, in your email you mention the 1840 census. You say >Another thought. >The 1840 census list Wilson with 1 son 5-10y and 2 sons 10-15. >Lunsford would 5. Thomas B. 10, Sam 15. The five year old would be John Edward J., whose b'date -- according to my records -- is Oct 05, 1835. This is confirmed by the 1850 census which indicates he is 15 at the time, with Lunsford three years older at age 18. The 1880 Rapides Parish, La Census again confirms this, indicating he was born in 1835. Also, his military records show he mustered in on 23 Apr 1861 in Holmesville, Pike Co., MS, at age 25. Rather than your interpretation, I would have read the 1840 census as: John Edward J. [b.Oct 05, 1835] would be 5. Samuel Wilson Tarver [b.Oct 31, 1825] would be 15. And finally, the middle child would be Lunsford G., whom the 1850 census lists as 18, the elder brother of John Edward J. I'm intrigued. How did you tie a Cleveland into the family? Well, this is all I can get to for now ... I wish I had more here at the office to look at and comment on right now, but will review all the files more closely, hopefully this weekend. I look forward to hearing your comments and am hopeful we can sort this out ... Isn't it a wonderful challenge!!? If I don't hear from you sooner, I hope your trip proves successful. Again, I thank you so much. My best, Lotus PS. The i in Frances name was a typo ... but I only had the census spelling for Avarilla, which, as you know, isn't always precise :> Thanks for that!! Also, have you confirmed that Melinda was a Cockerham? It is my belief that she was, but I have no proofs ... I too think Frances was the daughter of Mary Ann Tarver, along with siblings Samantha Tarver and James M. Tarver ... I may have indicated otherwise in my earlier post???? They are enumerated on the 1860 Pike Co., Ms census as Tom Tarver 31, Mary ? 23. Francis A. 8, Samantha ? 3, James M. I am replying to the list, as I know several of the lines discussed here have resarerchers subscribing. May we get feedback from those of you with data on your lines which intersect with these? At 02:36 PM 5/6/99 -0400, you wrote: >Lotus, > >I pleased that I could make a worth while contribution to the Tarver Family. > >I would appreciate your rationale and documentation in tying Thomas B. to >Demsey (Dempsey). > >You state that in 1860 that Thomas is hh 136, Lunsford is hh 134 and Sam is >hh 135. All correct. You forgot that Wilson was hh 132. All in Pike County. > >On April 5, 1858, Thomas B. patented (homesteaded) land in Section 4, >Township 4, Range 7. He may have received as much as 280 acres. This land >is located about 1 to 2 miles west of the current Interstate at the >Pike/Lincoln County Border. The map is on file >in the Land Records of Pike County as "Old Map #3". I have partial copies >of it. > >Neighbors in Section 3 were George Bigner, B. Denham, E. Gatlin, and N. >Woodall. Thomas' property was separated by Woodall (80 acres) from Newton >Marion Brown, Sr. Hence the marriage of Newton, Jr. and Averilla Rebecca >Tarver. > >I would like to offer a little food for thought to you and ask for your >analysis and comments. >1. Thomas B. patented land in S3, T4, R7 on April 5, 1858. So we can be >reasonably sure he was living there when the 1860 census was taken. >2. The 1860 census list Wilson hh 132, Thomas hh 136, Lunsford hh 134 and Sam >hh 135. Note only hh 133 separates them. Since Thomas owned the land, where >they living on his property? There a no other Tarvers in any adjoining or >nearby sections. > >I beleive they were all of the same family. > >Another thought. >The 1840 census list Wilson with 1 son 5-10y and 2 sons 10-15. >Lunsford would 5. Thomas B. 10, Sam 15. > >Think it over and let me know. > >Some minor corrections and additions to your posting. It is very informative. > >1850 census, Mary A. Tarver was born in Franklin County. > >Frances A. I believe that Frances was the daughter of Mary Ann Tarver. She >was born in 1852. If she were the daughter of Mary Jane (2nd wife), Mary >Jane would have been only 13-14 years old. Also note the 5 years lapse to >the next child. > >Frances A. m William M. McDaniel on January 17, 1875. > >1870 Census: >Lincoln County >T.B 37 >M.J. 32 >J.T. 7 >Averilla 4 >George 2 > >This from my notes. I'll be going to Orlando in a few days to do more >research. The Orange County Public Library has the finest collection of >Genealogical Material in the Southeast, Second only to the University of >Georgia. They have the entire census along with indexes. They do not have >Soundex for 1900/10/20. > >I think the correct spelling of Frances is with e. The i denoted masculine. >Also I believe it is "Averillia". > >Give me your thoughts. > >clyde > #Lotus D. Cirilo, Executive Director <lotusc@tyler.net> #Tyler Independent School District Foundation #PO Box 2035 Tyler TX 75710 Ph.(903) 531-3543 #******************************************************** #Tarver-Gen <http://www.tarver-genealogy.net/> #Genealogy. Collaborative family research. Tarver Welch #Lee Cockerham Rogers Reeves others. Searchable gedcom, #queries, transcribed records, message forum, mail list.