> Von: Guy Grenny [mailto:guyg@saber.net] > Gesendet: Samstag, 28. Januar 2006 20:13 > Forwarded message from: "Karen Thalmann" <p.thalmann@comcast.net> > > I live in the USA and have been researching my Swiss roots: > > > > My grandfather listed Waengi Th as his Heimatort and sure enough I found the > > entire family listed in the church records for Waengi. But then I couldn't > > find my great-grandfather until I stumbled upon him being listed as being > > from nearby Sirnach. Does this mean that my great-great-grandfather was > > born in Sirnach thus my great-grandfather was listed in Sirnach BUT my > > Great-grandfather was actually born in Waengi thus my grandfather listed > > Waengi as his Heimatort? Is this the way it works? I ask because I now > > can't find my ggg-grandfather in the Sirnach listings and I now suspect > > that I will have to search another nearby town. > > > > Thanks... Pete Before we discuss your question, you'll have to understand the basics of Swiss citizenship - see http://swiss.genealogy.net/CH-burger-e.html The "Buergerort" or "Heimatort" is a Swiss speciality - and (especially more recently) may have *nothing* to do with place of birth and/or place of living: I know families who have been living away from their Buergerort for generations! The nice thing about the "Buergerort" is that, at least for data after 1876, you can get all information on the family at the Civil Regsitry Office of the Buergerort, no matter how much the family moved around. You can also check Familiennamenbuch http://swiss.genealogy.net/famnam-m.htm to find "potential" Buergerorte for any given surname. Checking this source, we find that Thalmann have been citizens of Waengi since before 1800 - but not Sirnach (see below for a word of caution about this). So it looks most likley that your ancestors held Waengi citizenship - even if they live for one or more generations in Sirnach - or in other places: the Buergerort does not for sure tell you which church records you have to check! Word of caution: Thurgau has been re-organising their communities and Civil Registry Offices recently (during the 1990ies). This included Wiezikon (where Thalmann also have held citizenship since before 1800) to be incorporated within Sirnach. So nowadays the Civil Registry Office in Sirnach will state that Thalmann have been citizens of Sirnach since before 1800 - which I (and many other Swiss researchers) find very confusing - because that is in contradiction to what you find on earlier documents for your ancestors: if your grandfather had been from Wiezikon he would have stated that, he wouldn't have dreamed of giving Sirnach as Heimatort! You just have to keep in mind that this system in in place for civil registrars (dealing with birth, wedding, death and the corresponding wills, and the like) - and not to help genealogy! Good luck with your further research - Wolf __________________ Wolf Seelentag, Ph.D. Reherstr. 19 CH - 9016 St.Gallen +41 (0) 71 - 288 51 21 wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch

Hello, I have a similar problem and read Wolf's reply with interest. The person I am searching for, Georg Theodor Schneider, had citizenship in Balterswil, Kanton Thurgau when he emigrated to southern Germany. His birth record is not in the Bichelsee church records. (The German marriage record stated he was a citizen of "Waltersweier" Kanton Thurgau, which I believe is Wallenwil.) However, his baptism is not in the Sirnach church records either. So if a person did not live where he was a citizen, is there a way to find his birth and family records? Or is this just a needle in a haystack search? Georg was born in 1807 (the Swiss emigration record has it recorded erroneously as 1817). Susan -----Original Message----- From: Wolf Seelentag [mailto:wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch] Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:35 AM To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: AW: [SWITZ] Fw: Heimatort Waengi/TG - confused > Von: Guy Grenny [mailto:guyg@saber.net] > Gesendet: Samstag, 28. Januar 2006 20:13 > Forwarded message from: "Karen Thalmann" <p.thalmann@comcast.net> > > I live in the USA and have been researching my Swiss roots: > > > > My grandfather listed Waengi Th as his Heimatort and sure enough I found the > > entire family listed in the church records for Waengi. But then I couldn't > > find my great-grandfather until I stumbled upon him being listed as being > > from nearby Sirnach. Does this mean that my great-great-grandfather was > > born in Sirnach thus my great-grandfather was listed in Sirnach BUT my > > Great-grandfather was actually born in Waengi thus my grandfather listed > > Waengi as his Heimatort? Is this the way it works? I ask because I now > > can't find my ggg-grandfather in the Sirnach listings and I now suspect > > that I will have to search another nearby town. > > > > Thanks... Pete Before we discuss your question, you'll have to understand the basics of Swiss citizenship - see http://swiss.genealogy.net/CH-burger-e.html The "Buergerort" or "Heimatort" is a Swiss speciality - and (especially more recently) may have *nothing* to do with place of birth and/or place of living: I know families who have been living away from their Buergerort for generations! The nice thing about the "Buergerort" is that, at least for data after 1876, you can get all information on the family at the Civil Regsitry Office of the Buergerort, no matter how much the family moved around. You can also check Familiennamenbuch http://swiss.genealogy.net/famnam-m.htm to find "potential" Buergerorte for any given surname. Checking this source, we find that Thalmann have been citizens of Waengi since before 1800 - but not Sirnach (see below for a word of caution about this). So it looks most likley that your ancestors held Waengi citizenship - even if they live for one or more generations in Sirnach - or in other places: the Buergerort does not for sure tell you which church records you have to check! Word of caution: Thurgau has been re-organising their communities and Civil Registry Offices recently (during the 1990ies). This included Wiezikon (where Thalmann also have held citizenship since before 1800) to be incorporated within Sirnach. So nowadays the Civil Registry Office in Sirnach will state that Thalmann have been citizens of Sirnach since before 1800 - which I (and many other Swiss researchers) find very confusing - because that is in contradiction to what you find on earlier documents for your ancestors: if your grandfather had been from Wiezikon he would have stated that, he wouldn't have dreamed of giving Sirnach as Heimatort! You just have to keep in mind that this system in in place for civil registrars (dealing with birth, wedding, death and the corresponding wills, and the like) - and not to help genealogy! Good luck with your further research - Wolf __________________ Wolf Seelentag, Ph.D. Reherstr. 19 CH - 9016 St.Gallen +41 (0) 71 - 288 51 21 wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html to unsubscribe

> Von: Susan Biedron [mailto:Susan@jsbiedron.com] > Gesendet: Montag, 30. Januar 2006 19:12 > > Hello, > > I have a similar problem and read Wolf's reply with interest. > The person I am searching for, Georg Theodor Schneider, had > citizenship in Balterswil, Kanton Thurgau when he emigrated > to southern Germany. His birth record is not in the Bichelsee > church records. (The German marriage record stated he was a > citizen of "Waltersweier" Kanton Thurgau, which I believe is > Wallenwil.) However, his baptism is not in the Sirnach church > records either. Susan - you already know this link (because you had asked the question) - but other Schneider researchers might be interested in http://www.geneal-forum.com/forum_d/showthread.php?id=586 (whilst Susan asked in German, queries in English are welcome) > So if a person did not live where he was a citizen, is there > a way to find his birth and family records? Or is this just a > needle in a haystack search? Before mid-1800's (when data will be kept at the place of citizenship) - almost: obviously one would start in the surrounding parishes - but otherwise it's pretty similar to finding a birth entry in the US if you don't know the place of birth; you just don't know where to start :-(. This Swiss haystack will be smaller that the US haystack - but still a haystack (several thousand parishes). Best regards - Wolf