No, you're not a historian. The framers of the U.S. Constitution relied just as heavily on the Iroqois Confederation that Ben Franklin had observed as publisher of the British treaties with the Indians as early as 1750. And how were the Helveti "liberal"? Because of their government, or what's your basis for crediting them with being "liberal"? Best, Walt JENNY - MUELLER - JUNG through Missouri Edmond OK _________________________ -- Support the TKE Educational Foundation with your online purchases, at no additional cost to you! Simply go to http://www.iGive.com/TEF, sign up, and start shopping! Also, use http://taukappaepsilon.meetup.com/ to promote your TKE alumni meetings!