Hi Wolf, All I received from the Staatsarchiv is a xerox copy of a page from a parish book. It was not certified or registered. There was no stamp on it as being certified. I provided them all the infor they needed to go directly to the film. No research was required on their part. The copy I received was in old german script which I translated myself. If I knew it was going to cost me 25 Schweizer Franken, I would have paid $4.00 and ordered the film from my local LDS site and made a copy for 10cents, myself. robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Seelentag Wolfhart Dr. KSSG_RO <wolf.seelentag@kssg.ch> To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:39 PM Subject: [SWITZ] Familenschein fees (was: Some Advice Please) > Dear Swiss Rooters, > > after the fairly recent discussion about the cumbersome procedure to get any > data from Swiss Civil Registry Offices, we now have a discussion about their > fees. I'm not going to repeat any of the earlier issues - if you are new to > the list, please, search for "ordinance" in "2000" in the list archive : > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > (note : you have to search for "Switzerland-L" as our list in a first step > !!) > > Let's now turn to the fees : as with the procedure, I'm not going to defend > them - just trying to explain ;-) !! > > The two comments below obviously refer to two different things - which > explains the different fees. > > Robert had received a photocopy : really of a birth certificate - or of a > page of an old "Burgerrodel" ? Birth certificates (or certificates for any > other single events) are not used very often for genealogical purposes in > Switzerland : usually you either get a "Familienschein" (data after 1876) or > a copy of an older Burgerrodel (if existing) for older data; both types of > document contain roughly the same information - the difference being that a > Familienschein will be typed upon request (so anyone will be able to read it > easily), whilst a Burgerrodel will be handwritten - often in old German > script. Anyway - in Robert's case, it would be a copy of some existing > record - and it would be a certified copy. So it is not only that some time > finding the record is involved (even if you supply complete data), copying, > postage, ..., fee to cash your cheque (why do you think Swiss banks do so > well ?) - the most expensive part is the certification - we are not talking > of a plain photocopy, we are talking about a legally official document. I > don't know what you have to pay in USA to get a photocopy certified by city > administration or the like - in Switzerland this will usually be in the > order of sfr 15 (some $ 10). So I wouldn't complain about this document > being too expensive - but discuss whether a genealogist actually needs such > an official document ! One could argue, all I want is a plain photocopy - > send a few IRCs (which BTW cannot easily be used by an office - so they > don't really like them !), and don't fuss around. That would make sense - to > me at least - but unfortunately that's not what Civil Registry Offices are > being told (by the law) they should do :-(. > > David had received a (newly typed) "Familienschein" : now this obviously > involves a bit more than just photocopying; data have to be typed in (they > only started to talk about putting this information on the computer fairly > recently) - that's why the fee usually depends on the number of people > mentioned : as a Familienschein is issued on a male, it will depend on the > number of wifes (and consequently number of parents-in-law, which are also > listed if info is available) and children; so there will be a basic fee plus > some per-capita-fee. I have received or seen several Familienscheins - and > the fees were usually in the range of sfr 30 ... 45 - have never seen sfr > 110 ! Unless David's ancestor was married at least five times and had some > 30 or more children, I would expect this to be a misunderstanding : as > discussed in previous mailings, you now need a cantonal permission to be > allowed to ask for a Familienschein - and obviously there is a fee for this > permission as well :-(( ! Like almost everything in Switzerland, the cantons > decide what the fee for this permission is - they usually are in the sfr 50 > ... 100 range. David : did you apply and pay for such a permission prior to > asking for the Familienschein ? If not - they likely "applied for permission > on your behalf" and then issued the Familienschein - so the sfr 110 could > consist of, let's say, sfr 80 for the permission plus sfr 30 for the actual > Familienschein. Now this is of interest to you only, if you want an > additional Familienschein (from a Civil Registry Office in the same canton): > the cantonal permission would still be valid - you'd only have to pay for > the additional Familienschein. If we finally consider the fee for the > Familienschein : this will again be a legal document, combining a marriage > certificate with 10 or more birth certificates plus likely several death > certificates - you'll end up with some sfr 2 (about $ 1.50) per documented > event - not too bad a deal (if you are actually interested in all these > documents ;-)). The upsetting feature is the cantonal permission - both the > procedure itself, and the fee - especially if you can use it for just a > single Familienschein. > > I hope this helps to clarify the situation, and send my best egards - > Wolf > ---------------------- > Wolf W. Seelentag, PhD, e-mail : wolf@swissmail.com > Reherstr. 19, CH - 9016 St. Gallen, Switzerland > Tel (home) : +41-71-2885121 Fax : +49-89-2443-91987 > Tel (work) : +41-71-4942233 > > > > ---------- > > Von: Robert Rothenbuhler[SMTP:piepint@nbtx.com] > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Januar 2000 04:25 > > An: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > Betreff: Fw: [SWITZ] Some Advice Please > > > > > David, > > > > > > I received somewhat the same thing. I > > > requested and received one copy of a birth > > > notice for one of my ancestors. I sent them > > > the three international coupons, but when I > > > received the photocopy from them, they > > > wanted me to send them a check for 25 > > > Schweizer Franken. I think that is a bit > > > high for just a photocopy of a document. > > > There should have been no research > > > as I gave them all the dates and name. > > > > > > robert rothenbuhler > > > piepint@nbtx.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: david kester <dck516@yahoo.com> > > > To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 3:00 PM > > > Subject: [SWITZ] Some Advice Please > > > > > > > Hi List, > > > > I know that someone out there will be able to help me > > > > with this. I received a family certificate > > > > (Familienschein) for my ancestor from the > > > > Zivilstandsamt in Beringen, Schaffhausen, Switzerland. > > > > They tell me "you can borrow all the information you > > > > asked for ( as far as they are registered in our > > > > records)." > > > > They then go on to say that the charge for this family > > > > certificate amount to CHF 110.-- Please send a check > > > > to Zivilstandsamt etc. etc. etc. > > > > Would someone please explain all of this to me. > > > > Thanking You in advance, > > > > David > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > > Swiss Resource Site > > http://swiss.genealogy.net > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Support RootsWeb! Help provide FREE genealogical resources on the > Internet: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html >