Hi all I am looking for a wayto find my wife's grandfather's birth certificate. His name was George Gorgerat(may have been spelled differently) Born in Switzerland in June 1875 and emigrated to Canada. Also are there any emigration records for Switzerland covering this date. Thank You. Michael D.

I am looking for info on Peter and his wife Barbara Kundert Feldman from the Glaurs area Swanden. Thanks Brenda Brenda Ezell bezell204@sbcglobal.net

> Von: Paul Rands [mailto:paulrands@hotmail.com] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. August 2005 11:56 > > Re: http://www.ghgrb.ch/researchCorner/billeter_b.html > > I'm looking at the table in the above URL and find there are > 15 pages about the Bartlome surname in Munchenbuchsee. > > Can anyone tell me: > What kind of information might be in the 15 pages? On http://swiss.genealogy.net/billet-e.htm you'll find a few sample pages, plus general comments on the Billeter collection. > How I get access to the data in the pages? You either order photocopies from GHGRB or visit your nearest Family History Centre - after ordering the film: http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp ?display=titlefilmnotes&titleno=193135&disp=undefined&first=1&last=999 (must all be in a single line!) > What this site is? http://www.ghgrb.ch/ ? The regional genealogical society of Basel and surroundings. Best regards - Wolf > Thanks, > Paul Rands

Thanks everyone. I learned so much from your posts on this question. I've found the films I'm interested in. I was in the FHC in my area until well after midnight (they locked me and another guy in and left us to search away). I have the Münchenbuchsee parish book microfilm on permanent loan but had not really started to milk it. I came home and stayed up until 4:30 a.m. and found the Billeter information on the web and sent the question to you all. It looks like Billeter's data is not completely reliable, especially from generation to generation. Since I have the film and plan to make my own judgements, his work will be of great interest to me. The existence of his work explains a lot of my questions. I noticed LDS ordinance work for some of these old names dating back to the 1910's and 1920's. I wondered how they could have gotten those records and thought maybe they had gone to Bern way back then. Now I know. I'm going to post my experience how I jumped from southwest Germany into Switzerland when I lost the trail of my wife's ancestors in 1690. It may help/encourage others to make the leap. It will probably be more relevent on the German-L@rootsweb.com list. I haven't been there in years so it's probably splintered by now. Regards, Paul Rands

Re: http://www.ghgrb.ch/researchCorner/billeter_b.html I'm looking at the table in the above URL and find there are 15 pages about the Bartlome surname in Munchenbuchsee. Can anyone tell me: What kind of information might be in the 15 pages? How I get access to the data in the pages? What this site is? Thanks, Paul Rands

I realize this is a long shot but I'm hoping someone might have a suggestion. I've just obtained the ships manifest for my g-grandmother Emma THOMA of Amden and Walenstadt, St. Gallen in 1903. The record states that she was joining her aunt Caroline BLEULER who was living in Rochester, NY. I've researched the address and see that the head of household was a Swiss immigrant named William KÜLLING (b. Jan. 1857) and wife Rosa (also Swiss, b. May 1865, possible maiden name SCHNEITER) who ran a restaurant and took in boarders. Caroline BLEULER's name does not match any of the boarders in the home, some of whom are also Swiss. I have not located a Caroline BLEULER in either the 1900 or 1910 census to determine an age or year of immigration. I did locate two Swiss Caroline BLEULER's who arrived at Ellis Island in 1896. The manifest does not line up at the Ellis Island site to confirm other data, but the index shows that the elder Caroline was born about 1839 and the younger born about about 1875. It appears there was another BLEULER on the same ship, Paul BLEULER, b. abt 1881. I located Paul in 1910. That census listing shows him to be Swiss-French speaking and further checking on him indicates his mother's maiden name was FAIGAUX. From the index, I cannot tell if Paul is the elder Caroline's son. Unless the elder Caroline's husband was somehow related to the BLEULERs of St. Gallen, I'm not seeing anything to directly link these BLEULER's to the ones I'm looking for. There are other BLEULER's in the index with other arrival dates. I was able to view the manifests on those. Some of them show origins in Walenstadt, St. Gallen or just "St. Gallen." Emma THOMA was the daughter of Joseph THOMA (b. 22 Feb, 1843, d. 10 Dec. 1906) and Maria Josepha Elizabeth Boni (b. 8 July 1848, d. Dec. 1896), last of Walenstadt, St. Gallen. Would anyone have any further records on her or a suggestion about how I might proceed on this? Thank you! Shelly

> Von: bsepos [mailto:tobar@charter.net] > Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Juli 2005 08:54 > > Does anyone know if Zeihen is located in Berne? I've found a > possible relative and his family came from Zeihen. > That's all he said, so I don't know what Canton it's in. > Any help would be greatly appreciated since I know nothing about > Switzerland. Thank you. > > Barbara Sepos This is one of many questions answered by SwissGen ;-). In such a case use the full text search feature on http://swiss.genealogy.net/search-m.htm and search for Zeihen. There is also a fairly recent file on SwissGen, not yet in the search index (which is updated every few months), listing all independent communities of Switzerland: http://swiss.genealogy.net/CH-Orte.pdf but the other pages found by the search will give you more information than just the canton: the district, a link to the community's official web page, and some basic guidance on genealogical research in the canton in question - in this case Aargau. Best regards - Wolf __________________ Wolf Seelentag, Ph.D. Reherstr. 19 CH - 9016 St.Gallen +41 (0) 71 - 288 51 21 wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch

Pat, Did you receive the whole list of Häfeli (all spellings) from the Swiss Surname Book (Familiennamenbuch ) ? I can mail them as an attachment. No HEFLEY are mentioned however. That seems like an English adaption spelling. Check what LDS have filmed (www.Familysearch.org ) The Aargau/Klingnau/Döttingen Häfeli were extracted by Julius Billetter and are available on microfilm at your nearest LDSFamily History Library. There is a large tribe of Häfeli in Oberwil/Reinach. Check the http://www.hvw.ch/ (Historischer Verein Wynental) for some of their Family Histories. Dr. Peter Steiner tells you of the Häfeli in his valley. He's a great contact. Hanneli ----- Original Message ----- From: <To: <CHE-AARGAU-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: [AARGAU] RE: Hefley > Thanks so much for the responses are their any online sites I can check? > Thanks Pat in Orlando > > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

Does anyone know if Zeihen is located in Berne? I've found a possible relative and his family came from Zeihen. That's all he said, so I don't know what Canton it's in. Any help would be greatly appreciated since I know nothing about Switzerland. Thank you. Barbara Sepos

This is my first message to the list. I would like to make contact with anyone who can trace their ancestry back to Burkhard Kretz, b. about 1844, most likely in the Canton of Aargau. Married to Barbara Breidenstein. Thank you. Don Bemis

> Von: JeanieG731@aol.com [mailto:JeanieG731@aol.com] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2005 18:19 > > I had no idea there was a Familienbuch in Switzerland. If > there is anyone on the list with access to such a book. Is > the name STRUB in the book? > > Thank you, > JeanieG731@aol.com > > ----- > > I should have mentioned that my STRUB ancestor came from > canton of Solothurn and the village Rechersvil. > > Thanks again. > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Swiss Resource Site > http://swiss.genealogy.net This (URL above) is what all interested in research in Switzerland should read first ;-))). One of the pages there describes "Familiennamenbuch": http://swiss.genealogy.net/famnam-m.htm which is very likely not what you (Jeanie) seem to be expecting: it just lists communities where people of a certain surname hold citizenship (as of 1962), and since when. Check http://www.geneal-forum.com/forum_d/showthread.php?id=288 for an example. This information is very useful if you don't know where to start your research - but does not give any data on individuals. In your case Familiennamenbuch can only confirm that Strub have been citizens of Recherswil SO since the 19th century. Best regards - Wolf

> Von: Dw819@aol.com [mailto:Dw819@aol.com] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2005 08:06 > > I am new to this list and I am trying to find out about > ancestors. I would appreciate any information on the > ascendants of John Jacob Hauser, born April 27, 1842 in > Traesdinger, Schaffhausen, Switzerland who married Barbara > Margarita Hatt, born April 17, 1852, in Hemmenthal, > Schaffhausen, Switzerland. > The married on November 2, 1872, in Hennenthal. > I have very limited information on John Jacob Hauser's parents. > Thank you for you help, > Dorothea I have no info on your ancestors - but the proper spellings for the villages are Trasadingen Hemmental where indeed Hauser and Hatt respectively have held citizenship since before 1800. Best regards - Wolf

> Von: Paul Rands [mailto:paulrands@hotmail.com] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2005 00:56 > > I have lost the trail for Swiss ancestors > > Peter /Bartlome/ married to Elsbetha /TROLL/ in about 1590. > They raised family in Münchenbuchsee, Bern. The Bartlome > family is definitely from Münchenbuchsee but I'm not sure > about the Troll family. > > Would someone look up Troll surname in the Swiss > Familiennamenbuch for me? > > Thank you. > > Paul Rands > Portland, Oregon, USA The only pre-1800 citizenship listed is for Winterthur (Zuerich) - but that long ago you also have to consider lines which have moved, or become extinct in the meantime! Best regards - Wolf

I should have mentioned that my STRUB ancestor came from canton of Solothurn and the village Rechersvil. Thanks again.

I had no idea there was a Familienbuch in Switzerland. If there is anyone on the list with access to such a book. Is the name STRUB in the book? Thank you, JeanieG731@aol.com

I am new to this list and I am trying to find out about ancestors. I would appreciate any information on the ascendants of John Jacob Hauser , born April 27, 1842 in Traesdinger, Schaffhausen, Switzerland who married Barbara Margarita Hatt, born April 17, 1852, in Hemmenthal, Schaffhausen, Switzerland. The married on November 2, 1872, in Hennenthal. I have very limited information on John Jacob Hauser's parents. Thank you for you help, Dorothea

In my search of microfilms from different areas of Switzerland, I often find "illegitimate" children. I have been told that if the father recognized the child as his, the child would be allowed to bear the father's last name. But if not, then the child went by the mother's last name. I am wondering how these children were treated in earlier days in Switzerland, and how their mothers were treated. Was there a stigma? Were they accepted in the local community? I one case that I recall, the baptism record listed the aunts and uncles of the child as godparents. This would seem to indicate that the family was supportive. Or maybe they were just making sure the errant mother had her child baptized. I would appreciate any insight into this that anyone can provide. Thanks, "rwalker"

I have lost the trail for Swiss ancestors Peter /Bartlome/ married to Elsbetha /TROLL/ in about 1590. They raised family in Münchenbuchsee, Bern. The Bartlome family is definitely from Münchenbuchsee but I'm not sure about the Troll family. Would someone look up Troll surname in the Swiss Familiennamenbuch for me? Thank you. Paul Rands Portland, Oregon, USA

Hi Wolf, I can't speak in terms of specific towns within Switzerland, as I'm only a bit familiar with Frutigen and vicinity. Also, my grasp of genetics is a little shaky, so if something of what follows is in error, I hope someone is in a position to correct me. In the article, "Surnames and the Y Chromosome" by Bryan Sykes and Catherine Irven, Am. J. Hum. Genet., 66:1417-1419, 2000, the authors say, "The frequency of isonymy, the marriage between individuals with the same surname, has been used as a crude method of estimation of the inbreeding coefficients within populations. However, it is acknowledged that the method relies on a number of assumptions, of which a monophyletic origin [i.e., same surname = common ancestor] is one .....Although a few surnames are very common in any population, surveys in Britain and Switzerland have shown that most people have an uncommon surname." This would mean that the uncommon names were more common than the Hubers, Schmids, Meyers, etc., apparently enough so that the common names are an insignificant factor in calculating isonymy. And also, I would say that the smaller the town, the less likelier you will have genetically unrelated people with the same surname who happen to live there and are marrying one another. I'm not sure that it is any likelier in cities like Geneva, because there is a larger pool of people with different surnames to choose from as marriage partners. Parenthetically, there are two different Bricker family lines with participants in the Bricker DNA Project who were long thought to be related. One of the two families (mine) has circumstantial and anecdotal "evidence" of a connection to the Brueggers of Frutigen. The two families lived only within a couple of miles of one another in Pennsylvania, arrived by different ships during the 1730s in Philadelphia surrounded by fellow passengers with known Swiss roots (Liechti, Stampfli, Staehli, Buerki, Beiler, etc), settled as neighbors with those same people in America, and when these two Bricker families migrated West 100 years later they moved to exactly the same township and county in Ohio. One of the immigrants, who became a prosperous farmer, gave the daughter of the other immigrant, a tailor, a fair amount of property for almost nothing before his death, So when a man from each line had their DNA tested, we found to our surprise that the two families did not share a common ancestor, at least one who would have lived since the time that common people in Switzerland started using surnames, i.e., since the late 13th century or early 14th century. In other words, the two families independently would have adopted the name "Bruegger" when other people around them were also adopting surnames. So, yes, if both families were indeed from Switzerland, this would be a clear indication that not all the people with similar surnames in Switzerland are related within a "genealogically significant" period, i.e., when there are church registers and/or historical records on paper to allow us to trace roots. There is a tradition in Frutigen of two Bruegger families, and I'm now investigating whether one of them could have come from Innertkirchen in the Hasli Valley. I'm in the process of trying to recruit to our DNA Project an American Bruegger who I've tentatively established shares a most recent common ancestor with me that was born in Frutigen in 1575, and also recruit a second American Bruegger whose immigrant ancestor came from Innertkirchen in about 1900. Then we will be able to make further DNA comparisons and reach conclusions as to origin. I have had zero luck after contacting Swiss Brueggers. Dale Bricker > > Von: dbricker@cyburban.com [mailto:dbricker@cyburban.com] >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Juli 2005 20:06 >> [...] >> What follows is the summary of an article. > > [...] >> The gist of this is that the authors of the article found that the >> population in places such as Frutigen (where my patrilineal line is >> supposed to have come from), Poschiavo, Einsiedeln, Mels, Widnau, and >> Appenzell have relatively few surnames compared with practically all >> other communes of similar population size in Switzerland, which means >> that in-migration from elsewhere has been historically low and >> consequently due to inter-marriage almost everyone there is probably >> related to some extent to everyone else. > >Possibly I shouldn't comment on an article which I haven't read myself - >I hope Dale puts me right if my asumption is incorrect. > >>From the above I get the impression, that a genealogical relation is >always assumed for people with the same surname. I often read this >asumption between the lines of queries sent to me - and it's simply >wrong! In German (not sure about Rumantsch) there are several very >common surnames, carried by hundreds (or even thousands) of families >with no genealogical connection whatsoever - just consider all the >Meier, Schmid, Huber, Keller, .... - there are no really equivalent >surnames in French and Italian speaking parts of the world. If this >feeling of mine is correct, this would mean the above study is heavily >biased towards high consanguinuity in the Geramn speaking part of >Switzerland - which in turn renders any conclusion from this study >questionable, to say the least. Conclusions of this kind will be much >less biased when comparing single communities within a common language >reagion, of course. There are several areas (and I guess you can find >these all over the world) where for geographical or religios (and >possibly other) reasons in-migration has been very low - of the above >especially Poschiavo will qualify for geographical reasons, might also >apply to Frutigen and Einsiedeln, I would not necessarily expect Mels >and Widnau here. > >Best regards - Wolf >__________________ >Wolf Seelentag, Ph.D. >Reherstr. 19 >CH - 9016 St.Gallen >+41 (0) 71 - 288 51 21 >wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch > >______________________________

> Von: dbricker@cyburban.com [mailto:dbricker@cyburban.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Juli 2005 20:06 > [...] > What follows is the summary of an article. > [...] > The gist of this is that the authors of the article found that the > population in places such as Frutigen (where my patrilineal line is > supposed to have come from), Poschiavo, Einsiedeln, Mels, Widnau, and > Appenzell have relatively few surnames compared with practically all > other communes of similar population size in Switzerland, which means > that in-migration from elsewhere has been historically low and > consequently due to inter-marriage almost everyone there is probably > related to some extent to everyone else. Possibly I shouldn't comment on an article which I haven't read myself - I hope Dale puts me right if my asumption is incorrect. From the above I get the impression, that a genealogical relation is always assumed for people with the same surname. I often read this asumption between the lines of queries sent to me - and it's simply wrong! In German (not sure about Rumantsch) there are several very common surnames, carried by hundreds (or even thousands) of families with no genealogical connection whatsoever - just consider all the Meier, Schmid, Huber, Keller, .... - there are no really equivalent surnames in French and Italian speaking parts of the world. If this feeling of mine is correct, this would mean the above study is heavily biased towards high consanguinuity in the Geramn speaking part of Switzerland - which in turn renders any conclusion from this study questionable, to say the least. Conclusions of this kind will be much less biased when comparing single communities within a common language reagion, of course. There are several areas (and I guess you can find these all over the world) where for geographical or religios (and possibly other) reasons in-migration has been very low - of the above especially Poschiavo will qualify for geographical reasons, might also apply to Frutigen and Einsiedeln, I would not necessarily expect Mels and Widnau here. Best regards - Wolf __________________ Wolf Seelentag, Ph.D. Reherstr. 19 CH - 9016 St.Gallen +41 (0) 71 - 288 51 21 wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch