Hello I am searching for the surname EISENRING in Switzerland. I understand it is somewhat unusual and only occurs in a few villages. In particular I am looking for Elisabeth EISENRING who married Joseph SCHNEIDER. They had a son Georg SCHNEIDER in 1807 but I do not have a birthplace. Thank you, Susan Biedron

Hi Listers, Am I ever embarrassed! I don't know how I managed to send unneeded mail to the list, must have just a bad day. My apologies. YumaMother

Thanks to Daniel for his advice on obtaining information from the KT Aargau archives! Lorraine (Baechtold) Travers

Hi Lorraine. Sorry for late response. Try the Canton Aargau State Archive mailto:staatsarchiv@ag.ch They have a Web Site, too but just in German language. http://www.ag.ch/staatsarchiv/index.htm?/staatsarchiv/staatsarchiv.htm Kind regards from Switzerland Daniel Researching FISCHER (Oftringen/CH), GSCHWIND, KREIS (Ermatingen/CH), MEIER (Blumenstein/Ermatingen/CH), SCHLADERER, WAELCHLI, WILLI, WOESSNER, TAIBON. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorraine Travers" <calorra@netzero.net> To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:39 PM Subject: [SWITZ] Marriage records, Windisch >I would like to obtain a transcript of the marriage record of my >G.Grandparents: > Hans Ludwig Bächtold and Barbara Zepf, née Spörri, who were married in > Windisch, Kt Aargau, May 1860 > Where should I write for this? > Thanks for any help. > Lorraine Travers > Calorra@NetZero.net > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html > to unsubscribe > >

Gontenschwil is a village in canton Aargau and its post code is 5728. There are about 12 persons in Gontenschwil with surname Peter in the phone book. Good luck Heini hjegen@hotmail.com www.heinrich.jegen.com >X-Message: #1 >Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:04:48 +0200 >From: "Michael Peter" <michaelp@highveldmail.co.za> >To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <web-15710001@cgp7.sentechsa.net> >Subject: family >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Hi my name is Michael Peter and I live in South Africa. >My grandfather originally from Switzerland is Kurt peter. >My Family is from the canton Aargau from a town called >Gontenschwil.If anyone has information please post a >message. Some family names i know are Rolf Peter, Camilla >Peter and Rita Peter.Thank You.

WHY IS THIS ON ROOTSWEB? >From: SWITZERLAND-D-request@rootsweb.com >Reply-To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com >To: SWITZERLAND-D@rootsweb.com >Subject: SWITZERLAND-D Digest V06 #4 >Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 03:03:30 -0700 > >Content-Type: text/plain > >SWITZERLAND-D Digest Volume 06 : Issue 4 > >Today's Topics: > #1 I Hope This Gets Back, You'll See [YumaMother@aol.com] > #2 New Year's Toast [YumaMother@aol.com] > >Administrivia: >Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html >to unsubscribe > > > >______________________________ >X-Message: #1 >Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:07:39 EST >From: YumaMother@aol.com >To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <2a3.3c69cfa.30f9709b@aol.com> >Subject: I Hope This Gets Back, You'll See Why >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > >Subject: Fw: I HOPE I GET THIS BACK, YOU'LL SEE WHY > > > > > >Subject: Fw: I HOPE I GET THIS BACK, YOU'LL SEE WHY > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----A friend of mine opened his wife's underwear drawer and picked up a >silk paper wrapped package: > >"This, - he said - isn't any ordinary package." > >He unwrapped the box and stared at both the silk paper and the box. > >"She got this the first time we went to New! York , 8 or 9 years ago. She >has never put it on, was saving it for a special occasion. Well, I guess >this >is it. He got near the bed and placed the gift box next to the other >clothings he was taking to the funeral house, his wife had just died. He >turned to me >and said: > >"Never save something for a special occasion. Every day in your life is a >special occasion". > >I still think those words changed my life. > >Now I read more and clean less. > >I sit on the porch without worrying about anything. > >I! spend more time with my family, and less at work. > >I understood that life should be a source of experience to be lived up to, >not survived through. I no longer keep anything. I use crystal glasses >every day.. I'll wear new clothes to go to the supermarket, if i feel like >it. > >I don't save my special perfume for special occasions, I use it whenever I >want to. The words "Someday..." and "One Day..." are fading away from my >dictionary. If it's worth seeing, listening or doing, I want to see, >listen or >do it now. I don't know what my friend's wife would have done if she knew >she wouldn't be there the next morning, this nobody can tell. I think she >might have called her relatives and closest friends. >She might call old friends to make peace over past quarrels. I'd like to >think she would go out for Chinese, her favorite food. It's these small >things >that I would regret not doing, if I knew my time had come. > >I would regret it, because I would no longer see the friends I would meet, >letters.. that I wanted to write > >"One of these days". > >I would regret and feel sad, because I didn't say to my brother and >sisters, son and daughters, not times enough at least, how much > >I love them. > >Now, I try not to delay, postpone or keep anything that could bring >laughter > and joy into our lives.. >And, on each morning, I say to myself that this could be a special day.. > >Each day, each hour, each minute, is special. > >If you got this, it's because someone cares for you and because, probably, >there's someone you care about > >If you're too busy to send this out to other people and you say to >yourself >that you will send it "One of these days", remember that "One day" is >far away.. or might never come.. > >No matter if you're superstitious or not, spend some time reading it >It holds useful messages for the soul. > >Don't keep this message.! > >This Tantra must leave your hands within 96 hours. > >Send copies and watch what goes on in the next four days. > >You'll have a pleasant surprise. > >This is true, even if you're not superstitious. > >Now, here's the fun of it: > >send this message to at least 5 peo ple and your life improves. > >0-4 people: your life improves slightly. > > >5-9 people: your life improves according to your expectations ! > >9-14 people: you'll have at least 5 surprises in the next 3 weeks. > >15 or more people: your life improves drastically and your dreams start to >take shape. > >______________________________ >X-Message: #2 >Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:44:21 EST >From: YumaMother@aol.com >To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <83.35d928fb.30f97935@aol.com> >Subject: New Year's Toast >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > >Subject: Fw: New Year's Toast > > > > > > >I can't believe this, but I don't think I want to, because I recognize all >the names. Guess you know how that makes me feel???? Ehhhh .. women of >the >world? >NEW YEAR'S EVE TOAST > >Milords, Ladies and Gentlemen, Kindly raise your GLASSES IN SPECIAL >TRIBUTE >TO > >ALL THE GIRLS > >WE'VE LOVED BEFORE.... > > > >_____________ > > > > > >How's This For Depressing ? ? > > > > >Brigette Bardot 71 > >Stella Stevens 68 > >Sophia Loren 71 >Gina Lollobrigida 78 > >Deborah Kerr 94 > >Lena Horne 88 > >Kay Starr 83 > >Patti Page 78 >Annette Funicello 63 >Barbara Eden 71 >Angie Dickenson 74 > >Doris Day 81 >Joan Collins 72 >Julie Christie 64 >Leslie Caron 74 >Carroll Baker 74 >Ann-Margret 64 > >Debra Padget 72 >Julie Andrews 70 >Ursula Andress 69 >Rita Moreno 74 > >Jean Simmons 76 >Julie Newmar 72 >Kim Novak 72 > >Jane Powell 76 >Debbie Reynolds 73 > >Shirley Temple 77 >Jane Russell 84 > >Kathryn Grayson 83 > >Esther Williams 82 >Elke Sommer 65 >Gale Storm 83 >Jill St. John 65 >Liz Taylor 73 >Mamie Van Doren 74 > > > >UNBELIVEABLE. HOW IN THE WORLD > >DID THEY GET OLD > >AND WE DIDN'T ??? _________________________________________________________________ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.

If we didn't need it the first time why post it again, again, again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorraine Fernandes" <lorrainerfernandes@hotmail.com> To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 7:45 AM Subject: [SWITZ] RE: SWITZERLAND-D Digest V06 #4 > WHY IS THIS ON ROOTSWEB? > > >>From: SWITZERLAND-D-request@rootsweb.com >>Reply-To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com >>To: SWITZERLAND-D@rootsweb.com >>Subject: SWITZERLAND-D Digest V06 #4 >>Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 03:03:30 -0700 >> >>Content-Type: text/plain >> >>SWITZERLAND-D Digest Volume 06 : Issue 4 >> >>Today's Topics: >> #1 I Hope This Gets Back, You'll See [YumaMother@aol.com] >> #2 New Year's Toast [YumaMother@aol.com]

How did the junk dated 1/14 get posted? This is not the place for it.

I second the motion....re the junk posted on January 13th.

Subject: Fw: New Year's Toast I can't believe this, but I don't think I want to, because I recognize all the names. Guess you know how that makes me feel???? Ehhhh .. women of the world? NEW YEAR'S EVE TOAST Milords, Ladies and Gentlemen, Kindly raise your GLASSES IN SPECIAL TRIBUTE TO ALL THE GIRLS WE'VE LOVED BEFORE.... _____________ How's This For Depressing ? ? Brigette Bardot 71 Stella Stevens 68 Sophia Loren 71 Gina Lollobrigida 78 Deborah Kerr 94 Lena Horne 88 Kay Starr 83 Patti Page 78 Annette Funicello 63 Barbara Eden 71 Angie Dickenson 74 Doris Day 81 Joan Collins 72 Julie Christie 64 Leslie Caron 74 Carroll Baker 74 Ann-Margret 64 Debra Padget 72 Julie Andrews 70 Ursula Andress 69 Rita Moreno 74 Jean Simmons 76 Julie Newmar 72 Kim Novak 72 Jane Powell 76 Debbie Reynolds 73 Shirley Temple 77 Jane Russell 84 Kathryn Grayson 83 Esther Williams 82 Elke Sommer 65 Gale Storm 83 Jill St. John 65 Liz Taylor 73 Mamie Van Doren 74 UNBELIVEABLE. HOW IN THE WORLD DID THEY GET OLD AND WE DIDN'T ???

Subject: Fw: I HOPE I GET THIS BACK, YOU'LL SEE WHY Subject: Fw: I HOPE I GET THIS BACK, YOU'LL SEE WHY -----A friend of mine opened his wife's underwear drawer and picked up a silk paper wrapped package: "This, - he said - isn't any ordinary package." He unwrapped the box and stared at both the silk paper and the box. "She got this the first time we went to New! York , 8 or 9 years ago. She has never put it on, was saving it for a special occasion. Well, I guess this is it. He got near the bed and placed the gift box next to the other clothings he was taking to the funeral house, his wife had just died. He turned to me and said: "Never save something for a special occasion. Every day in your life is a special occasion". I still think those words changed my life. Now I read more and clean less. I sit on the porch without worrying about anything. I! spend more time with my family, and less at work. I understood that life should be a source of experience to be lived up to, not survived through. I no longer keep anything. I use crystal glasses every day.. I'll wear new clothes to go to the supermarket, if i feel like it. I don't save my special perfume for special occasions, I use it whenever I want to. The words "Someday..." and "One Day..." are fading away from my dictionary. If it's worth seeing, listening or doing, I want to see, listen or do it now. I don't know what my friend's wife would have done if she knew she wouldn't be there the next morning, this nobody can tell. I think she might have called her relatives and closest friends. She might call old friends to make peace over past quarrels. I'd like to think she would go out for Chinese, her favorite food. It's these small things that I would regret not doing, if I knew my time had come. I would regret it, because I would no longer see the friends I would meet, letters.. that I wanted to write "One of these days". I would regret and feel sad, because I didn't say to my brother and sisters, son and daughters, not times enough at least, how much I love them. Now, I try not to delay, postpone or keep anything that could bring laughter and joy into our lives.. And, on each morning, I say to myself that this could be a special day.. Each day, each hour, each minute, is special. If you got this, it's because someone cares for you and because, probably, there's someone you care about If you're too busy to send this out to other people and you say to yourself that you will send it "One of these days", remember that "One day" is far away.. or might never come.. No matter if you're superstitious or not, spend some time reading it It holds useful messages for the soul. Don't keep this message.! This Tantra must leave your hands within 96 hours. Send copies and watch what goes on in the next four days. You'll have a pleasant surprise. This is true, even if you're not superstitious. Now, here's the fun of it: send this message to at least 5 peo ple and your life improves. 0-4 people: your life improves slightly. 5-9 people: your life improves according to your expectations ! 9-14 people: you'll have at least 5 surprises in the next 3 weeks. 15 or more people: your life improves drastically and your dreams start to take shape.

Hi my name is Michael Peter and I live in South Africa. My grandfather originally from Switzerland is Kurt peter. My Family is from the canton Aargau from a town called Gontenschwil.If anyone has information please post a message. Some family names i know are Rolf Peter, Camilla Peter and Rita Peter.Thank You.

Cincinnati has a Schuetzenfest at Cincinnati Kolping Society every July. The King, the Schuetzen Koenig, is the one who shoots the last bit of a carved Eagle from a post. This comes from long ago, when a stranger in a small town saved the village children from an eagle that had been snatching the little ones and flying off with them. He shot the eagle and the town made him King for a year. I believe this was in the 1600's. A lot of German clubs have Schuetzenfests.

We still have 'em in Highland (formerly New Helvetia), Madison Co, Illinois. Larry Wernle > Von: claire lisa [mailto:cjlisa@att.net] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Dezember 2005 17:54 > An: Wolf Seelentag; SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, > I was looking at vintage pictures (ca 1910) for here in the US and saw > the shooting competitions that were held here by various German/Swiss. > I know that they were held in Switzerland and Germany throughout the > cantons/states and Federation/country. I was wondering if there is > anything written about the history of the shoots: how and why they > began, and if they ended: how and why that happened. I know that they > do not exist in the US (anyway in NJ/NY) If anyone has personal > knowledge of this I would appreciate the insight and information.

> Von: JFW [mailto:jowyn@adelphia.net] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2005 04:53 > [...] > BUT on the only written document I have (a US death > certificate) it is spelled Koernsler (possibly > Koernslur---handwriting problem there). I've been told quite > clearly that that is not a Swiss name. So I have created that > weary scenario in which an American spelled what he heard. A > German friend suggested the name might have been Könsler, > that the "oe" would probably be "ö." And that the "r" that > was put into the written name was just a sound heard by > non-German ears. > > On my own, I have pursued Kunzler, Kuntsler, with and without > umlauts. But I am really wandering because I can't say the > sound that the "oer" letters undoubtedly represent. My > ggrandmother was from Canton Zurich, but I don't know the town. In "Familiennamenbuch" (the CD edition - covering citizenships prior to 1861 only) the following names starting K... and ending ...ler are mentioned for canton Zuerich: Kappeler Keller Kellermüller Kemmler Klingler Kohler Köhler Koller Kübler None of them really strikes the eye as candidate for Koernsler :-(. Accepting all of Switzerland adds: Kachler Kaechler Käller Kapeller Kappenthuler Kappler Kasteler Käufeler Kessler Killer Kindler Kindweiler Kistler Kläusler Kneubühler Knöfler Kobler Krauchthaler Kräutler Kreienbühler Kriemler Kroemler Krömler Kubler Küchler Kugler Kummler Kunkler Künzler Küssler Unfortunately nothing obvious either. Best regards - Wolf

Hello, All who have contributed to this pronunciation topic: I am encouraged by this thread to try once more to find the correct spelling of my ggrandmother's name. She was born in Switzerland, married a Swiss, and emigrated to the US from Switzerland (via Breman, we think). So I can't but think her name--as originally spelled--was Swiss. BUT on the only written document I have (a US death certificate) it is spelled Koernsler (possibly Koernslur---handwriting problem there). I've been told quite clearly that that is not a Swiss name. So I have created that weary scenario in which an American spelled what he heard. A German friend suggested the name might have been Könsler, that the "oe" would probably be "ö." And that the "r" that was put into the written name was just a sound heard by non-German ears. On my own, I have pursued Kunzler, Kuntsler, with and without umlauts. But I am really wandering because I can't say the sound that the "oer" letters undoubtedly represent. My ggrandmother was from Canton Zurich, but I don't know the town. I would so appreciate any help you linguists/dialecticians/(even physicists-turned genealogists, Wolf!) can give. TIA Cheers, Jude

Even if this list is not meant to discuss German dialects just a few observations (not from a linguist, but a journalist who has been writing in German for all of his professional life): - To avoid the confusion about the meaning of "High German" it might be more appropriate to use the term "Standard German" ("Standardsprache") when referring to the written language. Of course there is also a codex of proper pronounciation for "Standard German" and Wolf is quite correct when he points out that the people in and around Hannover feel that their usage comes closest to the codified "Standardsprache". - The terms "Low German" and "High German" are somewhat misleading when referring to local usage and dialects since "low" carries a negative connotation and "high" a positive one. It might be more appropriate to refer to different usage and dialects in geographical and / or ethnical terms like Westfalian German, Saxonian, Bavarian, Swabian, etc. - Many of this regionally spoken dialects differ not only in pronounciation, but also in vocabulary and grammar from the "Standardsprache". This is especially true for Swiss dialects. Swiss German basically is a spoken south german, allemanic language all of its own, split up in many geographical dialects, hence the terms "Berndeutsch" (Bernese German), "Baseldeutsch" (Basel German), etc. Quite different from Standard German grammar Swiss German for example does not know the future tense but uses the present tense with a temporal adverb indicating the future (Not "He will go", but "He goes tomorrow"). And the past tense is formed exclusively with "to be" and "to have" and the past participle. So a literal translation of "She wrote to me" is possible into standard German ("Sie schrieb mir") , but not into Swiss German. There you have to use "She has written to me" ("Sie hät mer gschribe"). Best regards Peter -- Peter W. Frey CH-5212 Hausen Switzerland pwf@pwf.ch Reserching Birchmeier, Merki (Würenlingen CH 1850 >> OH >> MI, IL, IA) Wolf Seelentag schrieb: >>Von: Posnsrch@aol.com [mailto:Posnsrch@aol.com] >>Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Dezember 2005 19:27 >> >>In a message dated 12/27/2005 11:30:46 A.M. Central Standard >>Time, wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch writes: >> >> >>>I can recommend LEO - the dictionary: >>>http://dict.leo.org/?lang=de&lp=ende >>> >>> >>Thank you Wolf, for the site to learn umlaut pronunciations. >>I knew that there was no Swiss German per se. I did not know >>that there were dialects called Basel German, Burn German, etc. >> >>Do you know if the Glarus, CH grandparent would have spoken >>High German? >> >> > >Definitely not ;-). See also below. > > > >>Was it taught at their schools, as High German was taught in >>the Empire of Germany? >> >> > >I really don't want to get into a discussion on German dialects here - >for two reasons: >- it would blow up the list on a topic for which the list is not meant; >- I cannot make any profound statements, as I have never studied German >dialects, I have just lived in different German and English speaking >parts of Europe (plus shorter stays in the US). > >You mention the German Empire - this would limit the discussion to >fairly recent (for a genealogist) times - as the German Empire was >founded in 1871 (if we forget the "good old times" well before the times >most of us deal with in their genealogy). > >Now - what is "High German"? It is basically a written(!) language - and >people around Hannover feel that they have the most accurate >pronounciation of High German - people in other parts of Germany will >dispute that ;-). All we can say for sure is, that there are quite >different pronounciations of this written language - which should really >be distinguished from dialects. > >We have "Low German" as a group of dialects, spoken in the Northern >("lower" = close to sea level) parts of Germany. As the opposite I have >heard "High German" being used for what people in Southern ("higher" = >up the mountains, or at least hills) parts of Germany speak - which has >no connection whatsoever to how the written language "High German" is >pronounced anywhere. > >Now - where do we draw the line between different pronounciations and >different dialects? Use English for comparison - listen to someone from >the Midlands in the UK, someone from Australia, from Pakistan - and >compare it to what your compatriots in Boston or in Dallas are speaking: >are these different pronounciations? or different dialects? or even >different languages? To deal with this seriously, you have to deal with >it in a scientific way - but whatever you call it, this is not my >science ;-). My science is physics, and most of my spare time is spent >on genealogy ;-). > >Best regards - Wolf >__________________ >Wolf Seelentag, Ph.D. >Reherstr. 19 >CH - 9016 St.Gallen >+41 (0) 71 - 288 51 21 >wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch > > >==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== >Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html >to unsubscribe > > > >

> Von: Posnsrch@aol.com [mailto:Posnsrch@aol.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Dezember 2005 19:27 > > In a message dated 12/27/2005 11:30:46 A.M. Central Standard > Time, wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch writes: > >I can recommend LEO - the dictionary: > >http://dict.leo.org/?lang=de&lp=ende > > Thank you Wolf, for the site to learn umlaut pronunciations. > I knew that there was no Swiss German per se. I did not know > that there were dialects called Basel German, Burn German, etc. > > Do you know if the Glarus, CH grandparent would have spoken > High German? Definitely not ;-). See also below. > Was it taught at their schools, as High German was taught in > the Empire of Germany? I really don't want to get into a discussion on German dialects here - for two reasons: - it would blow up the list on a topic for which the list is not meant; - I cannot make any profound statements, as I have never studied German dialects, I have just lived in different German and English speaking parts of Europe (plus shorter stays in the US). You mention the German Empire - this would limit the discussion to fairly recent (for a genealogist) times - as the German Empire was founded in 1871 (if we forget the "good old times" well before the times most of us deal with in their genealogy). Now - what is "High German"? It is basically a written(!) language - and people around Hannover feel that they have the most accurate pronounciation of High German - people in other parts of Germany will dispute that ;-). All we can say for sure is, that there are quite different pronounciations of this written language - which should really be distinguished from dialects. We have "Low German" as a group of dialects, spoken in the Northern ("lower" = close to sea level) parts of Germany. As the opposite I have heard "High German" being used for what people in Southern ("higher" = up the mountains, or at least hills) parts of Germany speak - which has no connection whatsoever to how the written language "High German" is pronounced anywhere. Now - where do we draw the line between different pronounciations and different dialects? Use English for comparison - listen to someone from the Midlands in the UK, someone from Australia, from Pakistan - and compare it to what your compatriots in Boston or in Dallas are speaking: are these different pronounciations? or different dialects? or even different languages? To deal with this seriously, you have to deal with it in a scientific way - but whatever you call it, this is not my science ;-). My science is physics, and most of my spare time is spent on genealogy ;-). Best regards - Wolf __________________ Wolf Seelentag, Ph.D. Reherstr. 19 CH - 9016 St.Gallen +41 (0) 71 - 288 51 21 wolf.seelentag@swissonline.ch

> Von: William FISCHLI [mailto:wfischli@freesurf.ch] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Dezember 2005 17:33 > [...] > The most correct pronunciation of "ö" (or "oe") in english > would be like in s_u_n or better like in b_u_tter (the > phonetic sign is a "v" reversed). Sorry, William, but this is not a good example ;-). To use the English words "sun" or "butter" as an explanation for "ö" only explains to a German speaker how most Swiss pronounce "sun" or "butter" - which has NOTHING to do with how Englishmen or Americans pronounce these words. Go to http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=sun and listen to sun - than to http://dict.leo.org/?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&relink= on&sectHdr=on&spellToler=std&search=l%F6schen (make sure to get it all in a single line) and you'll hear the difference. Jim has mentioned another web site: http://tinyurl.com/8mc4f which may not work for you, as you need a RealPlayer to actually listen - but http://www.wm.edu/modlang/gasmit/pronunciation/oe/index.html http://www.wm.edu/modlang/gasmit/pronunciation/ue/index.html give you a few nice examples to type into LEO. Unfortunately examples for "ä" are not given - so let me try to add a few more: Short ä: lächerlich vs. lachen Sättigung vs. satt kämpfen vs. Kampf täglich vs. Tag Fächer vs. Fach ärztlich vs. Arzt Long ä: unfortunately all examples I tried were useless - pronounced like a short ä :-((. Best regards - Wolf

> Von: claire lisa [mailto:cjlisa@att.net] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Dezember 2005 17:54 > An: Wolf Seelentag; SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, > I was looking at vintage pictures (ca 1910) for here in the > US and saw the shooting competitions that were held here by > various German/Swiss. I know that they were held in > Switzerland and Germany throughout the cantons/states and > Federation/country. I was wondering if there is anything > written about the history of the shoots: how and why they > began, and if they ended: how and why that happened. I know > that they do not exist in the US (anyway in NJ/NY) If anyone > has personal knowledge of this I would appreciate the insight > and information. Not my speciality ;-) But try Google with Schützenfest which will give you loads of hits - mostly in German. Specifying English as language gives me the impression that these events are most popular in Australia. Best regards - Wolf