Can anyone tell me what canton Alpthal is in. It is a few miles from Einsedlin.

Fred: the family of RAMSAUER IS listed in "Swiss Surnames: as in only one location before 1800. Canton Appenzell outer Roden: Herisau (a) : Urnasch -= 1922 Canton Basel - Basel - 1962 (from Herisau,AR Zurich - Opfikon - 1947 (from Waldstatt Appenzell Zurich - 1957,1959,1960 (from Herisau, AR) In Mario Van Moos: Bibliography of Swiss Genealogies" there is the folowing: Steinmann,Rolf J<oachim: Genealogie der Familie RAMSAUER, Burger und Ratsgesch- lecht von Herisau. Mit Anhang der FAmilien Fisch (von Schwellbrunn und Herisau) S. 14-21) Lienhardt (von Schwellbrunn S.22-24) und Enz (von Herisau S. 24-27) Rapperswil SG um 1986 - 27 bl. Stammlisten (in der SGFF Bibliothek. Julius Billeter in his "Notes" has also comvered RAMSAUER. Microfilm 0193481 So a trip to the Family History Center locally is in order. Good luck. Joe Wolfe On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:01:45 -0500 (EST) Newarker@webtv.net (Fred) writes: > My Great Grandfather Jacob RAMSAUER was born in Switzerland 1n > 1837-8. He arrived in the USA before 1869 and Lived in the State of > New > Jersey until His death in 1885. He Married Anna Christ in 1869. > Looking > for data on Ancestors in Switzerland. > Fred Weigand > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Support RootsWeb! Help provide FREE genealogical resources on the > Internet: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html >

> Von: C. J. Lisa[SMTP:cjlisa@worldnet.att.net] > Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Februar 2000 16:38 > An: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Betreff: [SWITZ] Swiss-English /English-Swiss software or dictionary > > Hi all.... > > Does any one know of a source for a Swiss-English dictionary or software. > German does not provide a complete translation and I would like to learn > Swiss. I know a little to get by but not enough to be coherent. > > Thanks for your help. > Dear Claire, this question comes up occasionally - and I'm not sure whether there ever was a full answer. I don't know of a serious SwissGerman-English dictionary (I have seen one as souvenir - but that's more of a joke and will be of no use for genealogy) : it's not the words themselfes which make todays Swiss-German difficult to understand - it's the pronounciation (dialect). When reading a newspaper, I'll still be able to tell you after a few minutes whether it is Swiss or German - but this will largely be due to the syntax used; there are only very few words used (in "normal" texts) in Switzerland, which you wouldn't find in a good German dictionary. The problem are the terms (like professions, political positions, and the like) found in the older documents we genealogists often try to read - most Swiss today (unless interested in history or genealogy) will not be able to tell you their meaning either, let alone translate them into any other language. This is the same for Germany : for such terms the best "general" dictionary will not help you - you need a "genealogical dictionary"; there is a good one I know of - by Ernest Thode - check http://www2.genealogy.net/gene/misc/dictgen.html for more detail plus other related references. The problem with genealogical (or historical) dictionaries is that there was no "Germany" during most of the time of interest to genealogists (let alone an area including Switzerland) - consequently quite different words were used for the same thing - or the same word might have had quite different meanings in different regions! So if you *really* want to understand, the only way is to search for a book describing these old expressions (in German, don't think you'll find one in English) for your region of research - and then translate this description (using a good general dictionary) to English. Ernest Thode may want to add something to this comment (?). If anyone out there really wants to get into this, and compile relevant information of this type for Switzerland - you'd be more than welcome to join our SwissGen Team ;-). Best regards - Wolf

Hi all.... Does any one know of a source for a Swiss-English dictionary or software. German does not provide a complete translation and I would like to learn Swiss. I know a little to get by but not enough to be coherent. Thanks for your help.

My Great Great Grandfather Fredrich WULLSCHLEGER was born in Zofingen Switzerland in 1822-3. He arrived in the USA prior to 1854 when He Married Theresa Eisenhans and Lived in in New Jersey thru 1870. When His first Wife Thersa died in 1869, He Married Johanna Schnoeder. I am looking for data on His Ancestors in Switzerland. Fred Weigand

My Great Grandfather Jacob RAMSAUER was born in Switzerland 1n 1837-8. He arrived in the USA before 1869 and Lived in the State of New Jersey until His death in 1885. He Married Anna Christ in 1869. Looking for data on Ancestors in Switzerland. Fred Weigand

Greetings to you all from Indianapolis. I have been "searching the web" for info on Linden, a "village" or "town" or "city", I'm not sure the exact category. Could someone compare it to how we do it here in the States: state, city, county, township, etc. Do any of you know any good websites that has info on Linden, such as history, churches (both protestant and catholic), addresses of where records are kept for Linden, land purchase records, etc. Basically I am trying to find out anything about Linden, way back as far as records are kept. My HOOLEY family (spelled Holi then) originated there. Have any of you ever heard of, or known of, the HOLI name and that spelling? If any of you need any Indiana records, please email me privately, unless you think it would pertain to and benefit the whole list. Thanks to any of you for any help you can give me on this project. Dennis Buerge

Nancy - I do not find in Swiss Surnames any BOMMER family in ST. Gallen but they are in canton Thurgau from an early period. Canton Thurgau - Griensenberg (a) from before 1800 Lommis (b) - 1800 to about 1850 from Tagerschen TG Oberbussnang (a) Strohwilen (a) Reuti (a) Tagerschen (a) - umlaut over the "a" Thundorf - (a) Tobel (a) Wangi (a) - umlaut over the "a" Weinfelden - (a) Weingarten (a) In Mario Van Moos "Bibliography of Swiss Genealogies: there is the following Klaui,Hans: Aus der Geschichte der Familie Bommer von Wolfikon-Strohwilen/.TG. (Betrifft auch die Familie Ziegler von Winterthur.) Oberwinterthur - 1959 62 S., Anhang (in Staatsarchiv Zurich. As for writing for passenger list information you would need to write to the National Archives - and not Dept of Immigration ---- however, check out yourlocal family history center first. Most of the records have been filmed aand are on microfilm and many of them areindexed. If you know the time and area of the immigration that would be a help. The big stumbling block is if they came into New York there is no index for the years 1847 to 1892 (inclusive) so this would be quite a search for you. But anyway check with the Family History Center first. Hope this will be of help to you. Goodluck and good hunting. Joe Wolfe On 03 Feb 00 15:50:02 -0500 Nancy Bommer <nbommer@resource.com> writes: > Has anyone had any luck obtaining passenger list information from the > US Dept. of Immigration? If so did you call them or write them? Do > you have that address or phone number? Thank you in advance for any > help. > > Searching Surname: BOMMER > Fridolin came to US from St. Gallen in approx 1866 with wife and 1yr > son. > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Support RootsWeb! Help provide FREE genealogical resources on the > Internet: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Support RootsWeb! Help provide FREE genealogical resources on the > Internet: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html >

Bruce: Sorry I only checked out the one name on your request. AS for TOUCHON: Canton Neuchatel - La Sagne (a) - resided there before 1800 \Neuchatel - from about 1603 (came from La Sagne) Again this is from Swiss Surnames. Hope this is of help to you. Joe Wolfe On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:08:29 -0800 "Bruce Cardner" <BruceCardner@worldnet.att.net> writes: > Joseph, > > Thanks for your response. Yes, it does help. I am just having to > take baby > steps here, as this is the first time I have researched in another > country. > All of our other lines were here very early on, even to 1620, and > they have > been researched fairly well. > > This one is hard. Touchon is such a rare name. People have written > me > about my first post, saying that they recognize other surnames, but > not > Touchon. I hope that by making progress on the others, I will find > the > Graus and Touchons. > > I had to print off a map, and I have to sit there and find all these > places. > I feel very inexperienced about it. > > I am saving your email and will refer back to it as I need to. > > Thank you again. > > Sydney Cardner (the Sydney is female) > Florida > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph E. Wolfe <joeedwolfe@juno.com> > To: BruceCardner@worldnet.att.net <BruceCardner@worldnet.att.net> > Cc: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com>; > dschmutz@es.com > <dschmutz@es.com> > Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 5:15 PM > Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Surname HAMM > > > >Bruce: Accoirding to SWiss Surnames there is only one area in > Canton > >Fribourg that > >has Grau name in it before 1800; Ried bei Kerzersw (a) > >The name appears also in other cantons before 1800 > >Canton Bern - Wynigen (a) > >Canton LuZerne - Emmen (a) > > -Ebikon - (b) from 1800 to 1850 > >St Gallen Canton - Haggenschwil (a) > >Zurich canton - Dietikon (a) > > > >Hope this wil be of some help. Joe Wolfe > > > >On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:58:54 -0800 "Bruce Cardner" > ><BruceCardner@worldnet.att.net> writes: > >> I am trying to place a Bertha HAMM in the family below: > >> > >> William E. TOUCHON and wife Marie Louise GRAU left Neuchatel for > the > >> USA in > >> 1893. They had one daughter born in Le Locle named Bertha. A > son, > >> Jules > >> Ernest TOUCHON, was perhaps born there also. Other children were > >> born in > >> Connecticut. > >> > >> An elderly relative says that there are two Berthas connected as > >> sisters > >> somehow, or perhaps daughters of sisters, of Marie GRAU. There > is > >> a Bertha > >> DESAULES and a Bertha HAMM. She says in her letter that the > >> DESAULES were > >> in New Jersey, and she refers to Bertha HAMM as being in > California. > >> I do > >> not have any dates on them except one: she mentions that an > Edward > >> DESAULES > >> died in 1953, apparently in NJ. > >> > >> I just recently received this letter, and I have not absorbed it > all > >> yet. I > >> gather that DESAULES and HAMMS and GRAUS were connected even back > to > >> Neuchatel. I am not sure of this though. A birth certificate > shows > >> that the > >> GRAU line came from Fribourg. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: davist@lexmark.com <davist@lexmark.com> > >> To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:16 AM > >> Subject: [SWITZ] Surname HAMM > >> > >> > >> >Is anyone seaching the Surname Hamm? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > >> >Swiss Resource Site > >> >http://swiss.genealogy.net > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > >> Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? > >> mail to Switzerland-L-request@rootsweb.com > >> subject line: unsubscribe > >> nothing in message > >> > > >

Has anyone had any luck obtaining passenger list information from the US Dept. of Immigration? If so did you call them or write them? Do you have that address or phone number? Thank you in advance for any help. Searching Surname: BOMMER Fridolin came to US from St. Gallen in approx 1866 with wife and 1yr son. ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Support RootsWeb! Help provide FREE genealogical resources on the Internet: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html

Hello everyone, I am new to the list. I am looking for information on the Oechslen (Oechslein, Oechslin, Oecsli) family of the Canton of Schaffhausen. I have been told that a Rudolf Oechsli was Governor of Shaffhausen sometime between 1470 and 1487. Also that a coat of arms was presented to this family and it was on display in a local church chapel in Shauffhausen during the first half of the 17th century. Is anyone else researching this family? Lisa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

If you ask a Familienschein through the Swiss Consulate or Embassy is much more espensive. Because you do not only have to pay the fees of the Zivilstandsamt of the commune or Town but also the one of the federal office (Eidg. Zivilstandsamt) then all mail from the cantons and communes and destinated to a Swiss representation abroad is sent through this office. And eventually you have even to pay a fee to the Consulate or Embassy. So it is allways better to ask the document directly from the commune Max Kunzle

My great grandfathers name on his gravestone says "Fridolin" also (last name Bommer) On the back of photographs of him, he is also refered to as "Fred". He is said t have come from St.Gallen in the year 1866, but I have had no luck tracing him back. I wish you better luck. On 2/2/00, MCS642E wrote: I once saw my grandfather's name written as Fridolin - his name was Frederick. Mary. ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? mail to Switzerland-L-request@rootsweb.com subject line: unsubscribe nothing in message Nancy Bommer Sr. Art Director/Resource nbommer@resource.com

> Von: Joseph E. Wolfe[SMTP:joeedwolfe@juno.com] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Februar 2000 21:24 > An: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Betreff: Re: [SWITZ] Missing generations of Hilbi. > > Sorry to but in here but does everyone realize there is a marvelous series > of films > on St. Gallen - Author Wickli-Steineger :Alphabetical Name Index Cards in > the > Family History Center. UInfortunately they do not cover every town or > every canton > You are referring to "Toggenburgisches Genealogienwerk", and I agree : a GREAT source - but only for the protestant part of the Toggenburg Valley, which is only a part of canton St.Gallen. See http://www.eye.ch/swissgen/sursou-e.htm#others for a short description - listing the parishes and time frames covered. Some names dealt with in this source are included in the Swiss Surname Directory, but far from complete (we have permission to include all information - but someone would have to do the actual work). Best regards - Wolf > but > they are based not only on church records but also on property records and > wills and > other such information. Some of the numbers are > 1860955 - Fderle to Frey,Uli > 1860663 - Aadrian to Britt, Gottlieb > 1860858 - Schmid -Hans Jacob to Sprecher. > > And the best part is that they come into the 20th century. > > There are many more numbers but those are only a few. > > Joe Wolfe >

> Von: MKunzle311@aol.com[SMTP:MKunzle311@aol.com] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Februar 2000 19:14 > An: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Betreff: Re: [SWITZ] Familenschein fees (was: Some Advice Please) > > I come back to your comments you had about familienschein an fees. > I have recently asked at about 10 differents places mainly in the canton > of > AR and SG to send me a familienschein. Up to now I got 7 responses. And > nobody > had asked me to get a permission from the canton. > > 1. for 1 familienschein I paid FS 92.- As they told me they have applied > the > new tarif. I suppose as Wolf told in his mail they included the permission > > fees. > Would be plausible : the cantonal fee is FS 50 - leaving FS 42 for the Familienschein - deduct a small amount for postage and the like, and you are in the range of usual fees. > 2. for another familienschein I paid FS 55.-. A bit expensive but after my > > experience correct. > Will certainly not include the cantonal permission (I understand that 1 and 2 are for different communities). Lucky you ;-) ! How many children were included ? I haven't got the exact tarif here just now - but it will be something like - basic fee FS 15 - postage and the like FS 4 - leaves FS 36 for per capita fees - FS 2 per person - makes it 18 people - incl. the 2 parents and 4 grandparents - would be 12 children - or 11 children from 2 wifes > 3. A photocopy of a burgerrodel I got free of charge. > This (pre 1876) is not governed by Zivilstandsverordnung. Some administrations will charge a small amount for photocopying and postage - with an overhead (bank fees) higher than the charge itself; others apply common sense ;-). > 4. 1 reply per e-mail from the Staatsarchiv to whom the letter was > forwarded, > telling me they find anything, but giving further clues where I should > search. > No permission needed for Staatsarchiv - and Markus Kaiser (likely the one who answered, if SG) is a very nice and helpful guy ;-). > 5. From two places I got the reply per e-mail that they do not have any > records for the period I asked. > At least for St.Gallen it's the official policy not to require a permission for this preliminary question : makes sense - why ask for paper work and fees, only to find out there is nothing around. Even if they have records for the time, they may not have info on your ancestor : especially if you are not sure about the Buergerort of your ancestor - if there are not too many "candidates", just write to all of them, and ask whether they find your ancestor in their data. Send such "circulars" only for ancestors with a good chance to have been alive and in Switzerland after 1876 - otherwise too many requests, which might be considered silly, might only upset people : wouldn't hurt you directly, but would change their attitude towards genealogical requests in general - and might hurt future requestors. > 6. one town asked me to explain them my direct relationship to my > ancestor. > Which is the information needed to handle a request for permission. > As you can see not every town/commun is dealing with your request the same > > manner. You can have luck and pay nothing or you can pay a fee fairly > expensive. > You will never get a Familienschein for free ! Other information, especially for the period pre 1876 (which is not goverened by Zivilstandsverordnung) you will get free in some instances - but you'll never know, when - so it's better to ask first, if you want to avoid a surprise. > Concerning the permission a have the feeling, that the regulations are not > > applied everywhere. > True - but don't tell anyone ;-). Otherwise the more friendly people might be forced to change their attitude. > Or maybe there is another reason for that. Then all my > ancestors I was looking for are born 150 to 200 years ago. So I think > probably after a certain period (100 or 120 years) your do not need any > permission anymore. > True - only information via a Familienschein requires permission. The exact definition of the "starting date" is still not available : some people use 1876 (when the Civil Registry system was set up), others 120 years - which isn't all that much different today, but would be of importance for the future. What is worse - it is not clearly defined, whether the date limit (1876, or minus 120 years) applies to the date of collecting the information, or the date of birth of the person concerned; example : a person was born 1810, but still lived in 1876 - so information on him would be collected by Zivilstandsamt retrospectively in 1876 - would you need a permission (remember - the "120 year rule" was set up to make fairly sure the person concerned is no longer alive) ?? This is not defined by Zivilstandsverordnung (a bad omission !) - and therefore it will very much depend on how the Civil Registrar interpretes the Ordinance; especially if (s)he just wants to be left alone, (s)he'll say you need a permission :-(. > Max Kunzle > Thanks for reporting your experiences, and best regards - Wolf ---------------------- Wolf W. Seelentag, PhD, e-mail : wolf@swissmail.com Reherstr. 19, CH - 9016 St. Gallen, Switzerland Tel (home) : +41-71-2885121 Fax : +49-89-2443-91987 Tel (work) : +41-71-4942233

On 2 Feb 2000 Doug Hilby <DHILBS@aol.com> wrote: > I have researched the Mels and Flums Kirchenbuchs back to 1641 and something > strange occurs in both localities. > > Mels - couple 1 first child 1699. Next couple first child 1751. A > spread of 52 years. Otherwise from 1641 to 1821 there was always a > generation every 20 to 25 years. > > Flums - couple 1 first child 1720. Next couple first child 1760. A > spread of 40 years. Otherwise from 1666 to 1820 there was always that > generation every 20 to 25 years. > Doug, I believe there is a high probability that your ancestors lived in some other town(s) for a while and the system of recording vital information at the location of hereditary citzenship did not function the way it theoretically was supposed to. Another possibility is that the record books for non-resident citizens (a) were not microfilmed or (b) were lost or (c) were never created. In the case of some of the Reformed churches in Canton Bern, separate church books were kept for the Auswärtige Bürger (non-resident citizens). In the case of the Protestant Reformed Church of Brienz, some of these books have been microfilmed. My gr grandfather was a citizen of Schwanden bei Brienz, served by the church at Brienz. He lived at another location near Heimberg, north of Thun, from about 1859 until 1869, when he emigrated. The birth records of children 6-10 are not recorded at the Brienz church and there is no microfilmed Auswärtige Bürger book for that time period. Was the book lost, not copied, or never created? I do not know. Have you scanned all the micfofilms to be sure there are not separate books for non-resident citizens somewhere on them? The LDS microfilm list summaries generally contain less detail on the individual books than you find when you scan the microfilms sequentially. Lyle G. Hartman Landenberg, Pennsylvania

Dragoons were more of a mounted infantry. A step or two below the cavalry. Were not necessarily trained for fighting from horseback as the cavalry was. They were also more heavily armed. Ed Surkosky - etsmred@nb.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Hobart <mhobart@worldnet.att.net> To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Dragoner Corporal > > > > Can anyone on the list shed some light on the title "Dragoner > > Corporal"? A Swiss birth record for one of my ancestors lists one > > witness, a brother of the father, and gives this title after the name. > > > > > > Christian Luginbuhl > > Flagstaff AZ > > Christian, I would assume that this meant a corporal of Dragoons, a type of > cavalry unit. For a further discussion check a dictionary/encylopedia/work > on military history. > > Regards, Mike Hobart > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? > mail to Switzerland-L-request@rootsweb.com > subject line: unsubscribe > nothing in message > >

> > Can anyone on the list shed some light on the title "Dragoner > Corporal"? A Swiss birth record for one of my ancestors lists one > witness, a brother of the father, and gives this title after the name. > > > Christian Luginbuhl > Flagstaff AZ Christian, I would assume that this meant a corporal of Dragoons, a type of cavalry unit. For a further discussion check a dictionary/encylopedia/work on military history. Regards, Mike Hobart

Can anyone on the list shed some light on the title "Dragoner Corporal"? A Swiss birth record for one of my ancestors lists one witness, a brother of the father, and gives this title after the name. Christian Luginbuhl Flagstaff AZ

Bruce: Accoirding to SWiss Surnames there is only one area in Canton Fribourg that has Grau name in it before 1800; Ried bei Kerzersw (a) The name appears also in other cantons before 1800 Canton Bern - Wynigen (a) Canton LuZerne - Emmen (a) -Ebikon - (b) from 1800 to 1850 St Gallen Canton - Haggenschwil (a) Zurich canton - Dietikon (a) Hope this wil be of some help. Joe Wolfe On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:58:54 -0800 "Bruce Cardner" <BruceCardner@worldnet.att.net> writes: > I am trying to place a Bertha HAMM in the family below: > > William E. TOUCHON and wife Marie Louise GRAU left Neuchatel for the > USA in > 1893. They had one daughter born in Le Locle named Bertha. A son, > Jules > Ernest TOUCHON, was perhaps born there also. Other children were > born in > Connecticut. > > An elderly relative says that there are two Berthas connected as > sisters > somehow, or perhaps daughters of sisters, of Marie GRAU. There is > a Bertha > DESAULES and a Bertha HAMM. She says in her letter that the > DESAULES were > in New Jersey, and she refers to Bertha HAMM as being in California. > I do > not have any dates on them except one: she mentions that an Edward > DESAULES > died in 1953, apparently in NJ. > > I just recently received this letter, and I have not absorbed it all > yet. I > gather that DESAULES and HAMMS and GRAUS were connected even back to > Neuchatel. I am not sure of this though. A birth certificate shows > that the > GRAU line came from Fribourg. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: davist@lexmark.com <davist@lexmark.com> > To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:16 AM > Subject: [SWITZ] Surname HAMM > > > >Is anyone seaching the Surname Hamm? > > > > > > > >==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > >Swiss Resource Site > >http://swiss.genealogy.net > > > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? > mail to Switzerland-L-request@rootsweb.com > subject line: unsubscribe > nothing in message >