Give me this, I waited days upon days reading the comments of those listers disappointed with the short census form. And their points were well taken, one and all. However, permit me to make an observation. Though not to make a point, I leave that to the individual reader. Yesterday I went to a meeting that, because of its nature, attracted people from all walks of life. A very broad spectrum of the residents of my mid-size community. Two hundred and six individuals were in attendance. It was an interesting meeting and no one left early. Toward the end, the subject of the census forms was brought up. A lively discussion followed, but entirely one-sided. Essentially the same points were made that I have seen made on the List. And almost everyone was disappointed with the census form itself, especially since the taxpayers paid for it. Not my point, although I agree. Now for my observation. Before even one person left, a show-of-hands was asked to indicate how many received the short form. Then the long form. That's when things really picked up! It seems that 189 people got the short forms, and only 17 got the long. Of the seventeen receiving the long forms, nearly every one was known to oppose government intrusion in our everyday lives, known to oppose the federal government's assumption of rights reserved for the states, and known to oppose the continued growth of big government. Each of the 17 long-formers was adament about their right to privacy. So what's so different about the two forms? I don't know. I've not seen the short form. But here are some of the questions the government wants to know about those who received the long form. Question 21. Last week, did this person do ANY work for either pay or profit? Question 22. At what location did this person work LAST WEEK? Question 23. How did this person usually get to work LAST WEEK? The choices were: Car, truck or van; bus or trolley bus; streetcar or trolley car; subway or elevated; railroad; ferryboat; taxicab; motorcycle; bicycle; walked; worked at home; other. Question 24. What time did this person usually leave home to go to work LAST WEEK? Question 31. Income in 1999. a. Wages, salary, commissions, bonuses, or tips from all jobs. b. Self-employment income. c. Interest, dividends, net rental income, royalty income, or income from estates and trusts. d. Social Security or Railroad Retirement e. Supplemental Security Income f. Any public assistance or welfare payments from the state or local welfare office g. Retirement, survivor, or disability persions h. Any other sources of income received regularly such as Veterans' (VA) payments, unemployment compensation, child support, or alimony Question 32. What was this person's total income in 1999? Question 38. How many bedrooms do you have? Question 45. What are the annual costs of utilities and fuels for THIS house, apartment, or mobile home? Question 47b. How much is your monthly mortgage payment on THIS property? Question 48. Do you have a second mortgage or a home equity loan on THIS property? Question 50. What was the annual payment for fire, hazard, and flood insurance on THIS property. What has this to do with genealogy? Plenty. Active measures are being pursued in Switzerland and in Canada to restrict the public's access to vital and personal records, which sharply curtail the activities of legitimate researchers such as authors and genealogists. If this is made to apply to the US in future years, the Federal Government will be the only one to possess vital and personal records on individuals, and the possibility exists that all vital and personal records accrued by the government will be adjudged off limits to the public, including authors, genealogists and other legitimate researchers. This, as in Switzerland, on the basis of personal privacy. Genealogists should watch this trend carefully, and let their representatives know when they feel the line is being crossed. If indeed it has not already. One final note. The point was made at the meeting that perhaps those people who value personal privacy also would be expected to avoid going to public meetings such as this one. I think the point is valid.

On 15 Mar 2000 Darcy <gdboock@pressenter.com> wrote > In checking through the LDS microfilms available for a town in Switzerland > I found a listing for Haushaltungsrodel. In checking my dictionary I find > that Haushaltung means housekeeping. In reading an earlier listing on this > mailing list someone mentioned that household registers are available. Is > this what Haushaltungsrodel means or just what does it mean? What is a > household register? Any help would be appreciated. Darcy from River Falls, > WI > Darcy, It is a list of households, according to Ernest Thode's "German-English Genealogical Dictionary". That answer raises several other questions I have always wondered about. I hopew someone more enlightened than I can answer them. If the household register you found listed for the microfilm is from church records, then I presume that it is complete for the households in the parish. In Germanic areas the churches were the record keepers for everyone in the community until civil records were kept. In some areas of Germany, it was reported recently in another list, the Protestant churches tracked Jewish residents. Was everyone in a community required to go to church? If not, how did the churches distinguish between actual church (parish) members and members of the community who did not attend church but for whom they kept records? If yes, how did they fit them all into the church? The easy answer is multiple services. However, a Brienz document indicates an ancestor from Schwanden bei Brienz was fined by the "moral authorities" because he led his horse to an upper pasture when he should have been in church on a Sunday evening. It is unlikely there were multiple services on Sunday evening. Lyle G. Hartman Landenberg, Pennsylvania

Geneva, 16 March 2000. Dear Joy Wengerd, You asked about what is a "vacherie Starck." I believe that we are finding a mixture of French and German which we often find "regional borders " of Lorraine, Alsace and Switzerland when both languages were often mixed. A "VACHERIE" is an old term that dates back to 1150. It means a herd of cattle belonging to someone whose name is Starck. Stark in German means sombre, BTW. I remain at your entire disposition for any information you might want. Sincerely yours Jacques de Guise CEG / CGR / EIG E-mail: genrsch@gve.ch genrsch@correoweb.com -----Original Message----- From: Joy Wengerd [SMTP:jwengerd@valkyrie.net] Sent: 16. mars 2000 01:08 To: Subject: [SWITZ] Translation I am also in need of a translation. From the year 1556, Moutier: "la vacherie Starck". Could this be a place of employment, possibly something like a dairy or dairy farm? Vacherie in modern terms translates as "nasty trick" which makes no sense in this context. My surnames are: Schaffter, Amiet, Saucy, Heche & Sauvain from Moutier Grandval, Roche & Eschert. Guerne and Voirol from Tavannes. Many thanks, Joy Schaffter Wengerd ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Swiss Resource Site http://swiss.genealogy.net

Leaving Interlaken, the Lauterbrunnen valley extends southward until it abutts the Jungfrau massif at the foot of the Breithorn itself. Passing Lauterbrunnen on the right, one observes the Staubbach falls above the village plunging down from an overhanging rock in a sheer drop of 984 feet. Staubach Falls is alternately spelled Staubbach , and was previously known as the Pletschbach Falls. ("Baedeker's Switzerland," by Karl Baedeker, 1922, Leipzig, twenty-sixth edition, p.181.) Pete Mattli Ft. Myers, FL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subj: Staubach Falls Switzerland Date: 03/16/2000 3:25:08 AM Eastern Standard Time From: teacher1949@home.com (GALE HOFF) To: Swiss.Genealogy@bigfoot.com While looking for information on my family geneology I came across information that mentioned Staubach Falls. Could you pass along any information you may have about this location. Where is it in Switzerland? Thank you for any information you may have. Gale Staubach Hoff

I am seeking any info on Friedrich HUGI and his wife Anna HANNI (with a" over the a). Some towns? mentioned on the "Familien-Schein und Beugnik " are: Niedermuhlern, Seftigen, Toffen, Riggisberg.

I am seeking the parents of Johannes SCHWEIZER and his wife Anna Patnen?, not sure about her last name, the person who transcribed the "Familien-Schein und Beugnik" couldn't be sure. They were probably born around 1820, maybe before.

In checking through the LDS microfilms available for a town in Switzerland I found a listing for Haushaltungsrodel. In checking my dictionary I find that Haushaltung means housekeeping. In reading an earlier listing on this mailing list someone mentioned that household registers are available. Is this what Haushaltungsrodel means or just what does it mean? What is a household register? Any help would be appreciated. Darcy from River Falls, WI

Since this seems to be the "hot topic" at present, maybe someone can shed a little light on a phrase for me. our family is from bevilard, SW. I have a copy of a family chart that was drawn in 1905, possibly from older sources. One entry is for a female who married a first cousin of the same surname (so noted, in French, on the chart. Under the name of the spouse it says "dit du Vivier emigre aux Etats Unis, le Mai 1825." We get the emigre aux EU, etc., but the first part eludes our ability to translate. Is hand-written, so might possibly be "dit au Vivier" or "dif du vivier". The question, is this some kind of standard phrase or notation having to do with emigration. Thanks for any help. Rick Charpie surname AKA Charpier, Charpiez, Charpy, Sharpie, Sherpy, Charpia, Sharpee, Charpie (e-accent), Charpea, and possibly Charpilla.

Thanks, I think that this is good to get your information together to keep for future generations! Waldo ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Rothenbuhler <piepint@nbtx.com> To: waldoette <waldoette@innernet.net> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Census > Hi, > > To to............ > > www.census.gov/dmd/www/infoquest.html > > it will take you directly to the forms. > > robert rothenbuhler > new braunfels, texas > piepint@nbtx.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: waldoette <waldoette@innernet.net> > To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:14 AM > Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Census > > > > Hi: > > > > I did not find this form. Can you give us a couple more clues as to > where > > to find it other than "check ALL of the links". It sounds like you > did > > this, so please let me know which link it is. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Waldo > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Edwin Hunter <ethunter@home.com> > > To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:06 PM > > Subject: [SWITZ] Census > > > > > > > Hi: > > > Kathy Devlin gave you the census web site: www.2000.census.gov > > > > > > Go there and check ALL of the links... one of them will allow you to > > > download the "long" form. It is only 12 pages long, compared to > some > > > 30 or so in the actual, but it omits the iterations for six extra > > > residents. It is labeled "Information Copy" because you CANNOT > submit > > > it in place of your short form. But in case you want to fill it out > and > > > put it away for your survivors to discover some day, there it is! > Knock > > > yourself out! > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > > > Swiss Resource Site > > > http://swiss.genealogy.net > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > > Resource Site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw > > > > >

I am also in need of a translation. From the year 1556, Moutier: "la vacherie Starck". Could this be a place of employment, possibly something like a dairy or dairy farm? Vacherie in modern terms translates as "nasty trick" which makes no sense in this context. My surnames are: Schaffter, Amiet, Saucy, Heche & Sauvain from Moutier Grandval, Roche & Eschert. Guerne and Voirol from Tavannes. Many thanks, Joy Schaffter Wengerd

Margaret in Maryland asked about the translation of "Witzhalden" or "Mitzhalden", a word or name she found in a marriage certificate for a couple coming from the Grand Duchy of Baden. I believe this must be a place name, perhaps a village, a hamlet or a farm. Do you have a name for the place this certificate was issued? Depending on how long ago this marriage was contracted, perhaps enquiries could be made there as to whether this is a place in the neighborhood. Best wishes. Yvonne

Go to this URL and click on each form and you will get a response of all the questions that are asked on each form. http://www.2000.census.gov/iqa/index.html The mailback long form D-2 asks 53 questions. Some must be with multiple answers...

In a message dated 3/15/00 5:33:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ygygli@compuserve.com writes: << Grand Duchy of Baden. I believe this must be a place name, perhaps a village, a hamlet or a farm. Do you have a name for the place this certificate was issued? Depending on how long ago this marriage was contracted, perhaps enquiries could be made there as to whether this is a place in the neighborhood. >> Hello Yvonne, The marriage took place in 1867 at Neuchâtel, Switzerland. The wife and her family were of origin of Uelingen, Grand Duchy of Baden. They were living in Neuchâtel at the time of the wedding. The wife was born in 1836 at Uelingen. Right after the certificate tells of the year the wife was born then it states ... "a Witzhalden,( or it might be Mitzhalden) majeure, fille de feu Thomas Longin Kessler," then later on when it tells about the mother of the wife the certificate states., " Maria nee Probst sa nerve, agricultice a Witzhalden, paroisse de Uelingen, " ? (Mitzhalden) Thank you for taking time to try to help me with this translation. I appreciate all of your help. Margaret in Maryland Yvonne, yes I see what you mean by it could be the name of a farm. Maybe that is where the wife, Magdalina and her mother, Maria were born. Just not sure about this... Maybe I will learn more from all the help I get from this Swiss list... and maybe I should try a German list , too.???

What does Alois mean? Deborah -----Original Message----- From: Fred H.Straumann [mailto:fstrauma@idirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:43 AM To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Word Translation Needed Means Sheetmetal works Alois Laubi Installations Fred -----Original Message----- From: Terry Sylvia <tsylvia@mediaone.net> To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:21 PM Subject: [SWITZ] Word Translation Needed >Dear Listers, > >A cousin in Aarau has told me that he will send me a photo and has said that it is "Blechnerei Alois Laubi Installationen" I recognize the name, but what does the rest of the text signify? I am not familiar with the word Blechnerei -it sounds Latin. Could any of you help? > >My thanks, > >Terry Sylvia > > >==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== >Resource Site >http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Resource Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw

I want to try these questions again. According to my Swiss ggrandfather's obituary, he and my ggrandmother married immediately before emigrating to NY. We think they eloped from Basel(?). Could they have been married in Bremen? Would their Swiss citizenry have been a problem for Bremen officials? Would a record of a Bremen marriage be in the Bremen civil registers? Also, I have heard that ships' captains married many emigrating couples right before or just after they boarded ship--but I have no evidence of that. Where would records of such marriages be found? Thanks for any help in solving this knotty problem. Judy W.

Means Sheetmetal works Alois Laubi Installations Fred -----Original Message----- From: Terry Sylvia <tsylvia@mediaone.net> To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:21 PM Subject: [SWITZ] Word Translation Needed >Dear Listers, > >A cousin in Aarau has told me that he will send me a photo and has said that it is "Blechnerei Alois Laubi Installationen" I recognize the name, but what does the rest of the text signify? I am not familiar with the word Blechnerei -it sounds Latin. Could any of you help? > >My thanks, > >Terry Sylvia > > >==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== >Resource Site >http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw

Dear Listers, A cousin in Aarau has told me that he will send me a photo and has said that it is "Blechnerei Alois Laubi Installationen" I recognize the name, but what does the rest of the text signify? I am not familiar with the word Blechnerei -it sounds Latin. Could any of you help? My thanks, Terry Sylvia

Hallo Dennis Buerge, Yesterday you asked where Kurzenberg is in Bern. This was an ecclesiastical parish, also known as "Linden" which included the communities of Ausserbirrmoos, Barschwand, Innerbirrmoos, Otterbach and Schönthal. There are parish records for the years 1840 to 1875 in the State Archives in Berne. It appears that the name Kurzenberg is no longer used, but Linden is shown on the map a few miles east of Oberdiessbach. I would have called the Council offices but they don't work on Wednesday. If you would like more information, please let me know and I will give them a call tomorrow to find out what happened to Kurzenberg. Best wishes. Yvonne

Hi: I did not find this form. Can you give us a couple more clues as to where to find it other than "check ALL of the links". It sounds like you did this, so please let me know which link it is. Thanks, Waldo ----- Original Message ----- From: Edwin Hunter <ethunter@home.com> To: <SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:06 PM Subject: [SWITZ] Census > Hi: > Kathy Devlin gave you the census web site: www.2000.census.gov > > Go there and check ALL of the links... one of them will allow you to > download the "long" form. It is only 12 pages long, compared to some > 30 or so in the actual, but it omits the iterations for six extra > residents. It is labeled "Information Copy" because you CANNOT submit > it in place of your short form. But in case you want to fill it out and > put it away for your survivors to discover some day, there it is! Knock > yourself out! > > Ted > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Swiss Resource Site > http://swiss.genealogy.net > >

HI TO everyone, I could use this word translated. Witzhalden ??? or Mitzhalden It is found on a marriage record which is mostly written in french:however this word in this contract refers to the person and her family which were from theGrand Duchy of Baden. It might be what work she is able to do...Also in the reference to her mother the word "Witzhalden" is used again. I can read all the letters well except the W might be a different letter. M ?Mitzhalder? ........"agriculrice a Witzhalden." ,,,,,,,,,,,,,just an example from the record Thanks for any help you can hand my way. Margaret in Maryland