Thanks, Marjorie. I'm glad to share whatever I know. ---------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: R & M Gallagher <[email protected]> To: guy grenny <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Cemetery----Removal > Hi Hanneli, > > I really appreciated your reply. I hadn't ever really thought about the burial practices in other countries but your info is thought-provoking. Given my aversion to the current practices here in America concerning embalming, $15,000+ funerals, etc., I found your info somehow scratched an itch. > > In older cemeteries that I've visited here on genealogy searches here in the upper Midwest, I've seen little stone buildings with windows and benches inside that have the surname of the family written across the archway. ---------------------------- Marjorie, I think what you saw with family names written on them would probably be Mausoleums...... private burial vaults that, usually wealthier families, have built for their own family burials. What do you think? The ossuaries, however, became "anonymous". I have never heard of lists of names attached to them, as for the persons whose bones were transferred into there after a long period of time. It would make perfect sense..... but a difficult task over the centuries, don't you think? But maybe some "cemetary-ologist" knows?! Hanneli ------------------------------- I guess I just used my own imagination as to their purpose. > > Oh what an odd lot we are, yes? > > Thanks again.... > Marjorie >

I've seen cemeteries in Germany, Switzerland, Austria and France (and in Philadelphia) with the stones/markers lined against the fence, and the graves apparently filled with "new" bodies. I suppose the old stuff disintegrates. That would be the plan, right? Ruth At 08:00 AM 9/18/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Hi List, > > >Isn't it true that in Switzerland, as well as other countries, the >cemeteries only keep caskets buried for a limited period of time, then >remove them and replace with new because of the limited space. My >question is what do they do with the caskets and the tombstones after they >are removed from the cemetery? > >Any comments would be appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Robert Rothenbuehler > >[email protected]

Hi Robert! Thirty years after my Father's death, my siblings in Switzerland were notified that within ca. 60 days his gravesite was up for "Re-use" (turnover). This is in Aarau, Kanton Aargau. They wanted to know what we wanted them to do with the gravestone.... as that is considered the property of the family. You have to also understand that, in general, bodies are not embalmed* in Switzerland and therefore the natural decaying process is unhindered (what a dreary subject). As to what happens to the remaining remains ... bones, I can only assume that they then are stored in a massgrave.** Yes, you find many gravestones lined up along the outer perimeters of cemetaries (I've seen this done here in USA also)..... which would be done according to the wishes of the living family, if there is any. I bet that each cemetary has their own policy as to which qualify and which don't. I assume it would have something to do with whether they are artistically desireable.? ------------ *) The Swiss attitude toward the literal "ashes to ashes.... dust to dust" is simple, sincere and deeply felt; and many look upon the American practices of embalming and trying to make the body look "as alive as possible" as disrespectful to God and the desceased..... as an aberrant deathcult...... the denial that death is real. **) Until around the 18th century churchyards in Switzerland typically had a "Beinhaus" ...... (bone house or ossuary), a sturdy onestory stone building, looking often like a tiny chapel, where these bones where neatly stored. The walls were solid, except for some narrow oblong openings at eyelevel where parishioners could peak in and be reminded of their own mortality......"repent now, for one day you will certainly end up in here.....looking just like this"! Some had inscriptions and exhortations written across the little windows with these sentiments. Toward the end of the 18th century most of these ossuaries were no longer used for this purpose, but many of these wellbuilt little stone buildings were cleaned up and used for other purposes, like storing grains, etc. Oh well, why not ;-) . Cheer up! Hanneli PS. Of course, all the above is from my experience and readings only. I'm certainly no expert. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Rothenbuhler <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:08 PM Subject: [SWITZ] Cemetery----Removal > Hi List, > > > Isn't it true that in Switzerland, as well as other countries, the cemeteries only keep caskets buried for a limited period of time, then remove them and replace with new because of the limited space. My question is what do they do with the caskets and the tombstones after they are removed from the cemetery? > > Any comments would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Robert Rothenbuehler > > [email protected] > > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html > to unsubscribe >

Hi List, In researching my family, the parish records for my branch of the family go back to 1555. This is from the LDS microfilms. If I manage to research my family back to 1555, where would I go to research beyond 1555? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Robert Rothenbuehler [email protected]

Hi List, Isn't it true that in Switzerland, as well as other countries, the cemeteries only keep caskets buried for a limited period of time, then remove them and replace with new because of the limited space. My question is what do they do with the caskets and the tombstones after they are removed from the cemetery? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Robert Rothenbuehler [email protected]

In a message dated 9/16/2002 4:02:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] (Jeanine Theiler) writes: > As a new Switzerland researcher I am not sure where to begin. Am searching > for birth records for Frederick Theiler, b. July, 1866, probably Canton > Bern, who emigrated to the US and married Elise Zeller b. 20 NOV 1890. I > have HER parents, but not Fredericks. Can someone point a newcomer to > sources? Hello Jeanine: The critical piece of information is obviously the name of the town where Frederick was born. Have you already checked his immigration/naturalization records, marriage record, cemetery records, obituary, and death certificate? If you know the name of the Church where Frederick was a parishioner, or the schools his children attended, those records might contain information. If Frederick was active in Swiss/German activities in the town in America where he lived, sometimes histories of those organizations with biographies were written, and might be available in the local library or historical society. If he was involved in any land or real estate transactions, the application papers might contain the name of the town where he was born, and might be available in the County Recorder's office. Do you have any family Bibles or other family records (old letters, pictures from Switzerland with the photographer's ID, etc.) that might list the town name? If you find nothing, the search can be daunting, but you can look up the name in the on-line Swiss Surname Directory to see the towns where that surname appears. (Unfortunately, this Directory is unavailable until about October or November.) You can also click on the link below for additional help. There is a tremendous amount of information here, which should help your search. <A HREF="http://www.eye.ch/swissgen/search-m.htm">Swiss Genealogy on the Internet</A> Also, there is the LDS site, which may be helpful: <A HREF="http://www.familysearch.org/">Family History Center</A> Good luck with your search! Paul C. Miller

As a new Switzerland researcher I am not sure where to begin. Am searching for birth records for Frederick Theiler, b. July, 1866, probably Canton Bern, who emigrated to the US and married Elise Zeller b. 20 NOV 1890. I have HER parents, but not Fredericks. Can someone point a newcomer to sources? Thank you very much. J.Theiler

This song has been requested several times. Here it is: Weggiser Lied (Vo Luzern uf Weggis zue) Vo Luzern uf Weggis zue, bruucht me waehrli keini Schue (Yodel) Me cha fahre ufem See und die schoene Fischli gse. Z'Weggis foht das Stiege-n a, Buebe, Maitschi, hopp-sassa. Zerscht wird no ne Moeschtli gno, s'Schnufe mag daenn besser goh. Womer sind uf d'Rigi cho, haet viel Alperoesli do. (There's yodel after each line).

Switzerland to Become United Nations' 190th Member By REUTERS Filed at 1:55 p.m. ET UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Switzerland makes a historic entry into the United Nations on Tuesday with a nod to both its traditional neutrality and a fresh commitment to human rights, world peace and the struggle against poverty. The U.N. General Assembly is due to admit Switzerland as its 190th member as one of the world body's first official acts after opening its 57th session on Tuesday afternoon. Afterward, President Kaspar Villiger and other Swiss officials will join U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in a ceremony marking the raising of the Alpine nation's flag -- a white cross on a red background. Villiger, in remarks to reporters ahead of the ceremony, thanked the United Nations for tolerating Switzerland's unique flag, which is square while all others -- with the exception of Nepal's, which has a pointy design -- are rectangular. But unless the wind is blowing hard, ``they will all look about the same,'' Villiger said. Staunchly protective of their neutrality, the Swiss voted in March by a narrow margin to join the United Nations, taking a significant step away from their traditional isolationism as the Alpine nation bowed to the need to foster foreign ties. It is the first country to join the world body after a popular vote. ``We've all waited a long time for this day. In a way, it feels as if the family of nations has finally come together and this is really wonderful,'' Annan told Swiss officials at a morning meeting. ``We look forward to working with you as a full member of this organization.'' NEUTRALITY ``IN NO WAY SELF-SERVING'' True to their hard-working and conscientious reputation, the Swiss are already pondering what exactly their role will be in the world body and how it will affect their neutral status. ``It is greatly important to us that the principle of neutrality, which is deeply rooted in Switzerland, retains its validity,'' Villiger said in remarks prepared for the day's festivities. But Swiss neutrality ``is in no way self-serving,'' he said. ``There is no neutrality in the face of crime. Neutrality is an instrument that can contribute in its own way to the achievement of common values and goals.'' Foreign Minister Joseph Deiss said the Swiss would carve a niche for themselves by focusing on human rights and democracy, the start-up of the International Criminal Court and reforming U.N. sanctions regimes so they better target outlaw governments without unwelcome side effects. ``The United Nations is not perfect, as we all know, but as an organization its role is more vital than ever,'' Deiss told a news conference. ``Unilateralism and isolationism lead nowhere. This is just as true for big countries as for smaller ones.'' Asked how Switzerland would deal with Iraq, where President Bush has been pressing for ``a regime change,'' Deiss said the United Nations should initially pursue all available avenues for the readmission of arms inspectors ``in a peaceful manner.'' ``Any action of another kind -- including military action -- should be based on a legitimacy which can only be given by the Security Council,'' he said. The federation of 7.2 million people is no stranger to the United Nations. Switzerland has long been tied to the world body as one of the largest contributors to the U.N. budget and host to its European headquarters in Geneva. The wealthy mountainous state of 7.2 million people is marking the occasion with typical reserve as the sober Swiss refuse to let the celebratory bubble and fizz go to their heads. While images of the event are being beamed back home, pomp and ceremony are likely to be notable only by their absence on the immaculate streets of Swiss cities. ``Raising flags and clinking glasses is not how it's done,'' said the mass circulation Blick newspaper. ``If Switzerland wants to achieve anything in the world body, the diplomats will have to roll their sleeves up.''

Has anyone ever heard of the "German" practice of calling Bern "Verona"?? Ruth

Hello Listers, I regularly see questions related to the French Republican and Gregorian calendars. For your information, you can download a program which will give you the saints of the day in 1576 if you wish in France. The prgram can be downloaded in French or in English from the following site: http://ramsesgen.online.fr/fr/ramcal.htm. Enjoy it. Sincerely yours, Jacques de Guise Estudio de Investigaciones Genealógicas Center for Genealogical Research Cabinet d'Etudes Généalogiques Madrid, Genève [email protected] [email protected]

Eternal Bond of Brothers -- Between Uri, Schwyz and Unterwalden (August 1291; Transcription of Latin original)To all of you researchers trying to find your Swiss roots. Here is a source you should include in your family tree: The first steps to a Swiss Nation, taken in the summer of 1291! Walter Boppart Eternal Bond of Brothers -- Between Uri, Schwyz and Unterwalden (August 1291; English translation of Latin original) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This English translation, for which both the Latin original and a modern German translation are available, was translated by Richard Hacken of Brigham Young University. Nary a word about "...wir wollen seyn eyn einzig Volk von Brüdern," (..."We shall be a single fraternal people,") orally transmitted as a part of the Oath made on the Rüetli, is to be found in this written covenant of the same year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the name of God Amen. Public esteem and welfare demand that agreements be anchored in a foundation of peace. Let it be known to all that the people of the Uri Valley and those living in the Schwyz Valley, and those of Unterwalden, Lower Valley, in light of the treachery of the age, in order to protect themselves and their own, and to be able better to retain their proper status, have sworn in good faith to assist one another reciprocally, with aid, with appropriate counsel and favors, with personnel and with goods, both within and without the valleys, with all strength and effort against any and every foe that might bring violence, difficulty or insult against them or any one of them; [and to likewise oppose] any who would have evil designs against their persons or goods. Each community has promised to the other to assist in any eventuality, to offer aid to any degree necessary that might be necessary and at its own expense, to resist attack from those of evil intent and to avenge insults, by having sworn an oath bodily [with oath fingers raised], without thoughts of personal gain, thus having renewed and updated the old sworn oath of confederacy [of 1241?]. In such a manner, however, that each shall hold to the conditions of his family line, obeying and serving his Lord as appropriate. In common council and unanimously, we have also sworn, determined and designated to each other that we will neither accept nor recognize any judge in the aforementioned valleys who had bought that office at some price or for money, nor any who is not our inhabitant and one of our people. If, however, dissent should arise between any confederates [of Uri, Schwyz or Unterwalden], the wisest from among the confederates should step forward to quiet the dispute between the parties as appears most expeditious, and that portion that would speak ill of that decision should henceforth be considered contrary to the rest of the confederacy. In addition, however, it has been set down between [the parties] that whosoever with premeditation kills another in the absence of the latter's guilt, shall, when he is seized, lose his life insofar as he is unable to prove his innocence of the named misdeed, as the heinousness of his guilt demands it. Should he flee, then he shall never be allowed to return. Those who abet and defend the malefactor shall be banned from the valleys until they are expressly called on by the allies to return. If someone, by day or in the still of the night, would premeditate to damage one of the confederates by arson, he shall nevermore be considered one of the people. And if someone should protect and defend said malefactor within the valleys, then the latter shall recompense the victim with ample reparation. Further, if one of the confederates should rob another of his goods or should cause damage in any manner, the property of the guilty party, insofar as it is to be found within the valleys, shall be held in receivership in order to provide the victim with just compensation. Moreover, no person should indebiture himself to another, save he should be an obvious debtor or stand as security for another, and even this should only occur with express permission by his judge. Besides, each shall obey his judge and, in case it becomes necessary, shall name that judge within the valley before whose judgements he is compelled to stand. And if someone should resist the legal pronouncements of his judge and should the former, as a consequence of his obstinancy, cause damage to one of the confederates, then all allies are obliged to force the named rebel to provide compensation. However, if war or discord should arise among any of the confederates and a portion of the combatants refuses to accept justice or reparations, then the allies are obligated to protect the others. The designed pronouncements, written above and designed for the common health and safety, shall be of eternal duration if God wills it. Attesting the same at the desire of the aforementioned parties, this document is presented and validated by affixing the seals of the three aforementioned communities and valleys. Effective the Year of our Lord 1291, in the first half of the month of August. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to "Switzerland -- Primary Documents" Home Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to "EuroDocs" Home Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EuroDocs Weaver: Richard Hacken, European Studies Bibliographer, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, USA. Suggestions, corrections and comments are welcome: [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last Updated: June 9, 1999. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could anyone tell me if the name Haid is a Swiss surname. I have been looking for Jacob Haid married in Oberhausen, Wurttemberg in 1591 and have been unsuccessful in finding his birthplace> thank you Jean in Canada

> Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > Gesendet: Samstag, 7. September 2002 08:10 > An: [email protected] > > According to Familiennamenbuch der Schweiz, for the surname > Walter, citizenship prior (and continuing) to 1800 was in the > of the villages: [...] > > I'll have to check Monday for Wolfhardt since I don't have > FNBS right here. None. Best regards - Wolfhart Seelentag - for those who don't know my full first name ;-). > Best wishes, > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dale Bricker [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:55 PM > > Hello, > > I wonder if anyone can tell me whether the two surnames in > the subject line are recorded as originating in any Swiss villages? > > Thanks very much, > > Dale Bricker

I am trying to trace my family back. They come from the Bernese Oberland region. Can anyone help with first steps. I know dates of birth and snippets of information, but were is it best to start. i.e, we have the Records OFfice in London and County Offices and Census Returns. Are such things available for Switzerland? Can you get to them online? Many thanks.

Does anyone know if Raddatz, which was Prussia has records older than 1838? The only film from the FHC is 1838-1874 and that is too late for the information I need. Also can I scan a page from a document on this mailing list so someone can read and give the surname and town? Barb

According to Familiennamenbuch der Schweiz, for the surname Walter, citizenship prior (and continuing) to 1800 was in the of the villages: Windisch AG Mett BE Steffisburg BE Löhningen SH Siblingen SH Aetigkofen SO Balm bei Messen SO Gretzenbach SO Mühledorf SO Rohr SO Giubiasco TI Rougemont VD Grächen VS Dinhard ZH Russikon ZH Thalheim an der Thur ZH I'll have to check Monday for Wolfhardt since I don't have FNBS right here. Best wishes, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Dale Bricker [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [SWITZ] Surnames WALTER and WOLFHARDT Hello, I wonder if anyone can tell me whether the two surnames in the subject line are recorded as originating in any Swiss villages? Thanks very much, Dale Bricker

Hello, I wonder if anyone can tell me whether the two surnames in the subject line are recorded as originating in any Swiss villages? Thanks very much, Dale Bricker

In a message dated 9/5/2002 10:03:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] (Marlene) writes: Hello, I am requesting if there is anyone on this list that knows anything about the > surname of Muhlemann from Switzerland. Could you please contact me? I am > trying to find out about my great grand father, Henry Muhlemann from > Switzerland. Hello Marlene: If no one on the list provides you with better information, you might want to look at the LDS site at www.familysearch.org. There are many Muhlemann entries from various towns in Canton Bern. However, this list is not all-inclusive, and the Swiss Surname Directory that could give you the names of other cantons/towns where the Muhlemann name appears is off-line until about October or November. Unfortunately, this will be a difficult search if you do not know the canton where your great grandfather was born. Sometimes, death certificates mentioned the home town or canton. Also, if you know the Church to which your great grandfather belonged in America, those records, if well kept, also might mention the town or canton. If you are lucky, this info might also be on the immigration/naturalization records. Sorry I can't give you more exact information. Good luck with your search. Paul C. Miller

Dear John, Possible your music box plays the sond "Vo Lozärn gäge Wäggis zue". English title would be something like "From Lucerne towards Weggis". Weggis is a small town about 20 miles sse of Lucerne in central Switzerland. I tried to find the melody on the internet but unfortunately I was not successful. Maybee someone else on the list knows a page with this melody. Wish you a nice weekend! Christof -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: John Liccardi [mailto:[email protected]] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. September 2002 19:01 An: [email protected] Betreff: [SWITZ] Weggiserlied Perhaps someone could help me solve a mystery. I have an old Swiss made music box with the word "WEGGISERLIED" printed on the bottom. I assume this is the song it plays, but I am curious about the word. I have not been able to translate it from German. I wondered if it was the name of a place in Switzerland, but cannot find it on any map. Does anyone know what this word means? Thanks for your help. John ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html to unsubscribe