My grandfather, who was born in 1886, was not sure about the month he was born as different paperwork had it for March or for April. He decided that he would celebrate his birthday in March. The civil records that I got had his birthday as April and I have not had the opportunity to check the church records. It may seem odd, but he was 1 of 15 children and only 6 survived beyond age 20. With that large a family and probably not being very well off, birthdays were probably not celebrated in those days -- but maybe someone else can clarify that. Claire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry & Janet" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: [SWITZ] Birthdate differences Hello List. I have been trying to look up some information on some people in Switzerland, however I have encountered some problems with dates, and that is where I am hoping someone can help me out so I can decide if the people I have found are ours or not. I have a Frederick who was born 14 Nov 1841 (according to his info in the states), but Switzerland has his birthdate as 06 Nov 1841. That is a 8 day difference. His brother Peter was born 20 Feb 1831, but the papers from Switzerland give his birthdate as 16 Feb 1831 . That is a 4 day difference. However, Frederick's wife's birthdate is the same in the States as it is on the paperwork from Switzerland. My questions are..Is that "normal"? Could it be due to conflict in the actual birth date and a Christening date? I was wondering if they were actually using a christening date as a birthdate instead of their actually birthday. I had also thought of the difference with the Gregorian and Julian calendars, but I couldn't account for the when Switzerland changed over, or a 0 to 4 or even a 8 difference. Lastly, did some of the couples go by a betrothal date for a marriage date? Peter and Susettes is way off from what I have and according to the date I have from family members, it would mean they were married after their first child was born, which doesn't seem right to me. Thank you for any help on this matter. It will be greatly appreciated! Regards, Janet Strief [email protected] ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Resource Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw

My grandfather, who was born in 1886, was not sure about the month he was born as different paperwork had it for March or for April. He decided that he would celebrate his birthday in March. The civil records that I got had his birthday as April and I have not had the opportunity to check the church records. It may seem odd, but he was 1 of 15 children and only 6 survived beyond age 20. With that large a family and probably not being very well off, birthdays were probably not celebrated in those days -- but maybe someone else can clarify that. Claire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry & Janet" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: [SWITZ] Birthdate differences Hello List. I have been trying to look up some information on some people in Switzerland, however I have encountered some problems with dates, and that is where I am hoping someone can help me out so I can decide if the people I have found are ours or not. I have a Frederick who was born 14 Nov 1841 (according to his info in the states), but Switzerland has his birthdate as 06 Nov 1841. That is a 8 day difference. His brother Peter was born 20 Feb 1831, but the papers from Switzerland give his birthdate as 16 Feb 1831 . That is a 4 day difference. However, Frederick's wife's birthdate is the same in the States as it is on the paperwork from Switzerland. My questions are..Is that "normal"? Could it be due to conflict in the actual birth date and a Christening date? I was wondering if they were actually using a christening date as a birthdate instead of their actually birthday. I had also thought of the difference with the Gregorian and Julian calendars, but I couldn't account for the when Switzerland changed over, or a 0 to 4 or even a 8 difference. Lastly, did some of the couples go by a betrothal date for a marriage date? Peter and Susettes is way off from what I have and according to the date I have from family members, it would mean they were married after their first child was born, which doesn't seem right to me. Thank you for any help on this matter. It will be greatly appreciated! Regards, Janet Strief [email protected] ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Resource Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw

My grandfather, who was born in 1886, was not sure about the month he was born as different paperwork had it for March or for April. He decided that he would celebrate his birthday in March. The civil records that I got had his birthday as April and I have not had the opportunity to check the church records. It may seem odd, but he was 1 of 15 children and only 6 survived beyond age 20. With that large a family and probably not being very well off, birthdays were probably not celebrated in those days -- but maybe someone else can clarify that. Claire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry & Janet" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: [SWITZ] Birthdate differences Hello List. I have been trying to look up some information on some people in Switzerland, however I have encountered some problems with dates, and that is where I am hoping someone can help me out so I can decide if the people I have found are ours or not. I have a Frederick who was born 14 Nov 1841 (according to his info in the states), but Switzerland has his birthdate as 06 Nov 1841. That is a 8 day difference. His brother Peter was born 20 Feb 1831, but the papers from Switzerland give his birthdate as 16 Feb 1831 . That is a 4 day difference. However, Frederick's wife's birthdate is the same in the States as it is on the paperwork from Switzerland. My questions are..Is that "normal"? Could it be due to conflict in the actual birth date and a Christening date? I was wondering if they were actually using a christening date as a birthdate instead of their actually birthday. I had also thought of the difference with the Gregorian and Julian calendars, but I couldn't account for the when Switzerland changed over, or a 0 to 4 or even a 8 difference. Lastly, did some of the couples go by a betrothal date for a marriage date? Peter and Susettes is way off from what I have and according to the date I have from family members, it would mean they were married after their first child was born, which doesn't seem right to me. Thank you for any help on this matter. It will be greatly appreciated! Regards, Janet Strief [email protected] ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Resource Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw

I have also found this very interesting. My cousin wondered why her father had pictures of the gravestones of his sister and mother (who lived and died in Switzerland.) My mother had told me about the 25 year rule, so I explained that to her. And it does make sense to me -- who is left after that time to even visit your gravesite -- unless it is a young person or child who has passed, then family would go there for a long time. I have not noticed an abandoned grave in Switzerland at any of the cemetaries that I visited. They all had flowers and some had oil lanterns. I was not aware that there was no embalming in Switzerland. We had this discussion on a German site that I belonged to and it seems that there are caves in Germany with the bones and some bones are even decorated with wreaths painted on the skulls. When I was in Lucerne I thought it interesting, that at one particular church gravestones were lining a walkway that surrounded the courtyard (lying flat and some mounted on the walls) People had placed candles and flowers on the gravestones. I do not recall the dates -- but I will make it a point to look next time I go back. This was not a cemetary but the church courtyard -- I am assuming that maybe wealthy patrons of the church were honored here. I also saw stones mounted on churches. Claire

My niece's husband was a foreign exchange student in Germany (I don't know the exact location) in the 1980's and he said that many of the churches there house the bones of people right in the church. He said it wasn't uncommon to see some sort of containers with bones or cremains in them. ---------- From: CJ Lisa <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Swiss Cemeteries Date: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 9:29 PM I have also found this very interesting. My cousin wondered why her father had pictures of the gravestones of his sister and mother (who lived and died in Switzerland.) My mother had told me about the 25 year rule, so I explained that to her. And it does make sense to me -- who is left after that time to even visit your gravesite -- unless it is a young person or child who has passed, then family would go there for a long time. I have not noticed an abandoned grave in Switzerland at any of the cemetaries that I visited. They all had flowers and some had oil lanterns. I was not aware that there was no embalming in Switzerland. We had this discussion on a German site that I belonged to and it seems that there are caves in Germany with the bones and some bones are even decorated with wreaths painted on the skulls. When I was in Lucerne I thought it interesting, that at one particular church gravestones were lining a walkway that surrounded the courtyard (lying flat and some mounted on the walls) People had placed candles and flowers on the gravestones. I do not recall the dates -- but I will make it a point to look next time I go back. This was not a cemetary but the church courtyard -- I am assuming that maybe wealthy patrons of the church were honored here. I also saw stones mounted on churches. Claire ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html to unsubscribe

I have visited Pery, Vauffelin, Plagne and some other villages around that area in the Canton of Bern. The cemetery in Pery was reconstructed in the late 1970s and double in size. Before this was done, the graves was reused about every 60-70 years. The oldest death date now is about 60 years ago and the cemetery is only half full. There were only three full size graves all the rest were two foot by two foot and the remains had been cremated. Now with the cemetery larger, it could be 100 years before a grave is reused. If there are any living relatives, the remains are given to them, so I understand. When they reconstructed the cemetery they took some of the old-old headstones and placed them in the wall surrounding the cemetery. Now, in Vauffelin, the cemetery is older, and the oldest death there was about 90 years ago, but I understand that some of the older graves will be used when the cemetery gets full. Roy

A couple of years ago when I was in Switzerland, I attended a lecture on Swiss history. The speaker had a book which listed many, many town in America that were settled by Swiss immigrants. I wonder if anyone has estimated how many Swiss immigrated in the 18th and 19th centuries. Are more people with Swiss ancestry living outside Switzerland than in it now? Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Gerard To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 11:31 AM Subject: Announcements-Lunenburg Founding/Swiss/German I have had requests to have the announcements on the 250th anniversary of the founding of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia by Swiss and German immigrants posted on this list.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gygli Y." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:56 PM Subject: Re: Family Theiler > Hello Jeanine, > > I can understand your frustration about finding the parents of Friedrich and > decided to help you. > > Today I searched in the Archives in Berne and found the following in the > Baptism Records of Spiez in Canton Berne:- > > Child: Friedrich born 27 July 1866 in Spiez > Baptised 26 August 1866 in Spiez > > Father: Johannes Theiler, son of Christian Theiler > Mother: Maria Theiler, daughter of Johannes Theiler > Married 25 November 1859 > > Hope this is what you are looking for. > > Best wishes. > > Yvonne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Canton Bern Birth Record Assistance Needed > > > > In a message dated 9/16/2002 4:02:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > [email protected] (Jeanine Theiler) writes: > > > > > > > As a new Switzerland researcher I am not sure where to begin. Am > searching > > > for birth records for Frederick Theiler, b. July, 1866, probably Canton > > > Bern, who emigrated to the US and married Elise Zeller b. 20 NOV 1890. I > > > have HER parents, but not Fredericks. Can someone point a newcomer to > > > sources? > > > > Hello Jeanine: > > The critical piece of information is obviously the name of the town where > > Frederick was born. Have you already checked his > immigration/naturalization > > records, marriage record, cemetery records, obituary, and death > certificate? > > If you know the name of the Church where Frederick was a parishioner, or > the > > schools his children attended, those records might contain information. > If > > Frederick was active in Swiss/German activities in the town in America > where > > he lived, sometimes histories of those organizations with biographies were > > written, and might be available in the local library or historical > society. > > If he was involved in any land or real estate transactions, the > application > > papers might contain the name of the town where he was born, and might be > > available in the County Recorder's office. Do you have any family Bibles > or > > other family records (old letters, pictures from Switzerland with the > > photographer's ID, etc.) that might list the town name? If you find > nothing, > > the search can be daunting, but you can look up the name in the on-line > Swiss > > Surname Directory to see the towns where that surname appears. > > (Unfortunately, this Directory is unavailable until about October or > > November.) You can also click on the link below for additional help. > There > > is a tremendous amount of information here, which should help your search. > > <A HREF="http://www.eye.ch/swissgen/search-m.htm">Swiss Genealogy on the > Internet</A> > > > > Also, there is the LDS site, which may be helpful: > > <A HREF="http://www.familysearch.org/">Family History Center</A> > > > > Good luck with your search! > > Paul C. Miller > > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > > Resource Site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw > > >

I have been busy at work for a couple days and just now catching up with some of the mail.... My ancestors came from a little village (Fideris, pop 450-500) in Prattageau Valley, Canton Graubunden... When first visiting there in 1993, I thought well, there is the local Church and Cemetery I might just find LOTS of relatives buried there. My local cousins there quickly pointed out the fact that in that small cemetery the grave is recycled ever 25 years. In fact one of my distant cousins said that was the summer they would have to decide what to do with the stone from their infant daugher's grave. They were going to take it home and put it on their patio. Those unclaimed got ground/smashed up and used for gravel on the road into the cemetery. Others were along the wall of the cemetery. There were a few leg bones in the shed in the corner of the cemetery. The village next door, with a larger cemetery, had a policy or grave reuse after 35 years. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:43 PM Subject: SWITZERLAND-D Digest V02 #219

Hello Hanneli and Robert! Would you mind if I add to Hanneli's comments? Tombstones are/ were often re-used not by Family members but my other people who could not afford to purchase a new tombstone and have it engraved. The result insome cases is that while the tombstone is considered private property even in France, without a renewal of the 25- 60 or 100 year convention with the mayor's office, your tombstones become city/ village property and is not disgarded. Rather, the tombstone is put to the side, perhaps another is made and replaces the first...and if it belongs to your Family, you can go down to the cemetery and bring it home. I believe that Hannel's comments go for some parts of Switzerland, because in the French speaking areas, I have never hear of Beinhauses (bone houses). Please remember once again, that while the Swiss are organized people, and very often times, austere people as it relates to certain functions of live including death, the difference of cultures have an an enormous impact on what was accepted and considered normal. My grandmother lived in the Great Apple ( New York City) and died there. She had asked to be buried with her husband in southern France. She was emballed ( is this the correct word in English????? sounds strange...) in the United States and transported to France in a plane ( my Uncle told us that his mother descended from the plane with the luggage and I am serious)....and it was necessary to "adjust" the coffin as the size of the tomb was not as large as was expected in the USA. Imagine having to change the size of the coffin and re-adjust the inherent Family member into another coffin without emballment! While this may sound macabre, it sounded perfectually normal to most people. Everything as you know is relative, Robert, as you have come to know, including death. Just one more detail....in my years of genealogical research, in searching cemeteries, I have often looked around them to see if a 25 ora 60 or a 100 year prescription had just expired-if this was so, I could then have a good chance to see a tomb which had just been deterred and take information off it. Sincerely yours, Jacques de Guise ----- Original Message ----- From: "guy grenny" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Cemetery----Removal > Hi Robert! > Thirty years after my Father's death, my siblings in Switzerland were > notified that within ca. 60 days his gravesite was up for "Re-use" > (turnover). This is in Aarau, Kanton Aargau. > They wanted to know what we wanted them to do with the gravestone.... > as that is considered the property of the family. > You have to also understand that, in general, bodies are not > embalmed* in Switzerland and therefore the natural decaying process > is unhindered (what a dreary subject). > As to what happens to the remaining remains ... bones, I can only > assume that they then are stored in a massgrave.** > Yes, you find many gravestones lined up along the outer > perimeters of cemetaries (I've seen this done here in USA also)..... > which would be done according to the wishes of the living family, if > there is any. I bet that each cemetary has their own policy as to > which qualify and which don't. I assume it would have something to do > with whether they are artistically desireable.? > ------------ > *) The Swiss attitude toward the literal "ashes to ashes.... dust to > dust" is simple, sincere and deeply felt; and many look upon the > American practices of embalming and trying to make the body look "as > alive as possible" as disrespectful to God and the desceased..... as > an aberrant deathcult...... > the denial that death is real. > **) Until around the 18th century churchyards in Switzerland typically > had a "Beinhaus" ...... (bone house or ossuary), a sturdy onestory > stone building, looking often like a tiny chapel, where these bones > where neatly stored. The walls were solid, except for some narrow > oblong openings at eyelevel where parishioners could peak in and be > reminded of their own mortality......"repent now, for one day you will > certainly end up in here.....looking just like this"! Some had > inscriptions and exhortations written across the little windows with > these sentiments. > Toward the end of the 18th century most of these ossuaries were no > longer used for this purpose, but many of these wellbuilt little stone > buildings were cleaned up and used for other purposes, like storing > grains, etc. Oh well, why not ;-) . Cheer up! > > Hanneli > PS. Of course, all the above is from my experience and readings only. > I'm certainly no expert. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Rothenbuhler <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:08 PM > Subject: [SWITZ] Cemetery----Removal > > > > Hi List, > > > > > > Isn't it true that in Switzerland, as well as other countries, the > cemeteries only keep caskets buried for a limited period of time, then > remove them and replace with new because of the limited space. My > question is what do they do with the caskets and the tombstones after > they are removed from the cemetery? > > > > Any comments would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robert Rothenbuehler > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > > Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html > > to unsubscribe > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Swiss Resource Site > http://swiss.genealogy.net >

In 1965 on my way from Italy to Germany (military), I saw my grandparent's grave in Goschenen. The cemetery was about 20 ft by 20 ft. As a 30 year old youngster, not into genealogy, I was curious as to why my Aunts, Uncles and Cousins were showing me numerous cemetery plots of my relatives. In 1998 after I started genealogy and went to visit these same sites, they were gone. Space is the key. If there is suffient land, a person will be buried for some time. If space is limited, "first in, is also the first out". Needless to say, you can not go back in time. I do have 2 Uncles and 2 Aunts still in Schweiz. One uncle is in Kussnacht am Rigi. His wife died in 1968. Her plot is still there. Why? Uncle Paul , now 92 , has been paying about 1000 Sfr a year to keep this plot even though the cemetery is crowded. When he passes away, he will be buried where his wife is. After 20-25 years the remains will be exhumed unless his sons and daughter work out some arrangement. As to the other uncle and aunts, in Sisikon, being a smaller cemetery, once they pass away, the time frame is about 15-20 years. Tombstones are stacked along part of the fences at the cemeteries. They can be re-used if someone wants them or some are broken up into small pieces for a walkway. I must say there is a lot of granite walkways in Swiss cemeteries. I know cemeteries is not a normal conversation. I do remember my mother saying when her time comes, to think back and remember the good times. Earth is for the living. With the amount of space available, and not knowing how the upkeep of a plot will be, I have made it known to my wife and kids that cremation is the way I want to go. Since I won't be around for it my ashes will either " help the flowers grow or have very strong weeds". Grusse zum Alle Anton "Doni" Flecklin Louisiana

Married after the first child was born? What surprises you about this? They wouldn't be the first. I have found couples married after the fourth and fifth child, some never married at all... Ruth At 11:59 AM 9/18/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Lastly, did some of the couples go by a betrothal date for a marriage >date? Peter and Susettes is way off from what I have and according to the >date I have from family members, it would mean they were married after >their first child was born, which doesn't seem right to me.

When I was in Switzerland, this spring, I asked about this and was told the family has the use of the grave for 50 years for a particular person, then they are cremated and the family decides what to do with the cremains. There simply isn't room. Marlena Amalfitano [email protected]

Hi Hannelli and Robert, Your discussion of bones and headstones in cemeteries stirs the curiosity. In the U.S. I often assume when stones appear missing from graves that there never was one on the grave. Rather than someone having stolen it, could it be that the stones are fair game for removal after a certain time? A mass removal for road work or structure building does raise consternation when it is discovered by an enterprising newspaper reporter. Maybe not in some countries where the customs are different. There is so much neglect of our cemeteries here, once the original owner or caretaking arrangements have died off . Strip mining in certain areas have isolated grave yards or ripped them up outright. Ernie Heltsley

FOR DAVE SCHMUTZ: Would you kindly post this, and the original message, to [email protected] ====================================== For: Joseph O. Pecenka, Replying to ur msg of 10/22/1999. Sorry for the delay in replying to your msg. I now have the list of books about which you inquired. Also have obtained some of the books for my own library. In your msg you wrote: "The surnames involved were: Tron, Constantin, Bonnet, Buoc, Blanc, Vincon, etc." [...] I am interested to know your reference source for these names, and whether it is a book or other type. In the interval since you wrote, a copy of the very rare and almost impossible to get book "Le Livre d'Or des Familles Vaudoises" has turned up in the hands of one André Tinturier, <[email protected]>.This quite old and very rare book lists the families living in Canton Vaud in April 1919 and as far back as the 12th and 13th century. Included for many are historical notes and brief biographies. Since the book seems totally unavailable on the regular market, André has offered to e-mail several of us every page of the book, which he is now doing. I have so far received one e-mail transmitting five pages. It would be almost no work at all for André to add you to the list of recipients. I would be interested to know if the names you mentioned were from a formal source (book, list, or other) and if so, the name of the reference source. Returning now to your original request for a list of books on the subject. Many books touch on the people of the Cottian Alps and the strength with which they resisted repeated attempts by the French Kings and the Dukes of Savoy to "exterminate them totally on both sides of the Alps" to use the words of the French King Francis I in 1545. From the establishment of the Vaudois Church in the 12th century until the beginning of the 19th century, no less than eleven full scale invasions, one hundred and forty three military actions, and twelve full scale massacres of the residents of individual villages attempted to accomplish that which had been ordained by Francis I, and his predecessors, and subsequent rulers of France and of the Holy Roman Empire. All to no avail. The Vaudois would not be extirpated from their mountain fastness. Commonly we are told of forays by 600 or 800 soldiers of the King being put to flight by, in one case 7, in another 12, mountain men armed with muskets and slings. In 1685, after two attempts by first 200 men, then 900, the Marquis of Pianezza attacked the 17 Vaudois defenders with 10,000 soldiers divided into three columns. Even the 17 valiant Vaudois patriots could not withstand these odds and were forced to retire long enough for the French army to plunder and burn the houses on the outskirts of the village before being driven off by the ten fusileers and their seven compatriots wielding slings. Subsequently the army of the Marquis was followed and relieved of all their booty. More cruel than even the French, were the soldiers of Victor Amadeus II, Duke of Savoy. For it was he that issued a decree in 1730 by which most of the Vaudois were driven into exile to Switzerland, B-W in Germany, The Netherlands, England, and to the English colonies in America. Hundreds of thousands fled rather than endure further torments in their native land. It was to be over one hundred years before the ban was lifted and the Vaudois were allowed to return under the aegis of the Statuto signed by King Charles Albert (King of Sardinia, Cyprus, and of Jerusalem. Duke of Savoy, Genoa & Piedmont.) By this document peace was restored and the people could once again worship in accordance with the precepts of the Vaudois Church. As I say, many books touch on the events I have mentioned, but you do not have to acquire more than three of the best to cover the subject in depth and in detail so that nothing is left out. THey are: 1) First and foremost: "The Valley of Light" written in 1899 by the Englishman W. Basil Worsfold. This is a book written by a master of the art of prose. Every page is a pleasure to read. 2) "The History of The Evangelical Churches of The Valleys of Piedmont" by Samuel Morland, Commissionary Extraordinary for The Affairs of The Valleys of Piedmont, later knighted by Oliver Cromwell, King of England. This is the book he composed while representing the king in Geneva, Savoy and the Vaudian mountains of Piedmont. 3) The third book has yet to be selected from five that compete brilliantly with the other two. There are attributes to recommend each one. It will be a hard choice, but I will remember your primary interest is in the Cottian Alps. My preference by a long shot would be a book by Léger, if I can find its title. I hope this reply reaches you, and that your e-mail address remains the same. And if I can locate a good source for the books I have recommended, I will pass that info to you by separate e-mail. If not, I can let you have my "The Valley of Light" long enough to read through once or twice. It leaves very little out, though nothing can compare to Léger. My best regards, Pete Mattli 3805 Scarborough Court East Hampton at Kings Ridge Clermont, FL 34711 ph: (352) 536-9586 fax (352) 536-9170 e-mail: <[email protected]> [3-ggg's] =========================================== Subj: Writings on the Cottische-Alpen "heretics" Date: 10/22/1999 9:48:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: Joseph O. Pecenka To: [email protected] Hi B-W list, Ridding the area known as Cottische-Alpen (overlapping Italy, Switzerland and France) of heretics, Victor Amadeus II drove 2,000 protestants out of his northern lands at French behest. These migrated northerly into the lightly controlled border area between France and the Kingdom of Wuerttemberg, the Mark of Oelbronn in 1699. The surnames involved were: Tron, Constantin, Bonnet, Buoc, Blanc, Vincon, etc. Is anyone aware of any writings that treat the expulsion and wanderings of these refugees from the Cottische-Alpen? Or any sources that I might search to find such? Thank you, Joe Pacenka DeKalb, Illinois =====BADEN-WURTTEMBERG Mailing List===== Visit the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List Website: http://members.xoom.com/BW_List/bw.htm

Hello List. I have been trying to look up some information on some people in Switzerland, however I have encountered some problems with dates, and that is where I am hoping someone can help me out so I can decide if the people I have found are ours or not. I have a Frederick who was born 14 Nov 1841 (according to his info in the states), but Switzerland has his birthdate as 06 Nov 1841. That is a 8 day difference. His brother Peter was born 20 Feb 1831, but the papers from Switzerland give his birthdate as 16 Feb 1831 . That is a 4 day difference. However, Frederick's wife's birthdate is the same in the States as it is on the paperwork from Switzerland. My questions are..Is that "normal"? Could it be due to conflict in the actual birth date and a Christening date? I was wondering if they were actually using a christening date as a birthdate instead of their actually birthday. I had also thought of the difference with the Gregorian and Julian calendars, but I couldn't account for the when Switzerland changed over, or a 0 to 4 or even a 8 difference. Lastly, did some of the couples go by a betrothal date for a marriage date? Peter and Susettes is way off from what I have and according to the date I have from family members, it would mean they were married after their first child was born, which doesn't seem right to me. Thank you for any help on this matter. It will be greatly appreciated! Regards, Janet Strief [email protected]

----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Gerard To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 11:31 AM Subject: Announcements-Lunenburg Founding/Swiss/German I have had requests to have the announcements on the 250th anniversary of the founding of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia by Swiss and German immigrants posted on this list. In July, 2003, the town of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia will celebrate its founding by Swiss and German immigrants 250 years ago. The names of the founding families will be etched on a monument to be erected in the town. The Ueltschi family emigrated from Oberwil-im-Simmental to Nova Scotia in 1750 and were among the founding families of Lunenburg in 1753. The link to the web site is www.seawhy.com/L250.html. Roger Gerard Descendent of Jacob Ueltschi (Hilchey)

My mother's grave was 'closed' last years after 18 years. (St. Gallen; it varies from place to place).If there are 'family', they are sought and told to take the grave stone by MM/YYYY. Else it will be disposed of. The bones still found are either cremated or buried in mass a grave. That's the way it should be. What a waste: the Canadian/ American graves for whom no one care any longer! Walter in Vancouver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlena Amalfitano" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:10 PM Subject: [SWITZ] Cemetery use > When I was in Switzerland, this spring, I asked about this and was told the family has the use of the grave for 50 years for a particular person, then they are cremated and the family decides what to do with the cremains. There simply isn't room. > > Marlena Amalfitano > [email protected] > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html > to unsubscribe > >

Hello Jacques, Hanneli and Robert.... This is really an interesting conversation and reminds me of the time I visited a cemetery where some of my mother's ancestors had been buried. It's a small cemetery, not used much any more and the records have been lost along the way. What added to my frustration was that down through the years, when family members would "upgrade" the family monument to something bigger and better they would take the old marker and place it on the unmarked graves of family members. In one instance I found 3 markers throughout this small cemetery for one person....and the groundskeeper couldn't tell me in which grave the person was actually buried. Marjorie Gallagher ---------- From: Estudio de Investigaciones Genealogicas /CGR /CEG <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Cemetery----Removal Date: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:38 PM Hello Hanneli and Robert! Would you mind if I add to Hanneli's comments? Tombstones are/ were often re-used not by Family members but my other people who could not afford to purchase a new tombstone and have it engraved. The result insome cases is that while the tombstone is considered private property even in France, without a renewal of the 25- 60 or 100 year convention with the mayor's office, your tombstones become city/ village property and is not disgarded. Rather, the tombstone is put to the side, perhaps another is made and replaces the first...and if it belongs to your Family, you can go down to the cemetery and bring it home. I believe that Hannel's comments go for some parts of Switzerland, because in the French speaking areas, I have never hear of Beinhauses (bone houses). Please remember once again, that while the Swiss are organized people, and very often times, austere people as it relates to certain functions of live including death, the difference of cultures have an an enormous impact on what was accepted and considered normal. My grandmother lived in the Great Apple ( New York City) and died there. She had asked to be buried with her husband in southern France. She was emballed ( is this the correct word in English????? sounds strange...) in the United States and transported to France in a plane ( my Uncle told us that his mother descended from the plane with the luggage and I am serious)....and it was necessary to "adjust" the coffin as the size of the tomb was not as large as was expected in the USA. Imagine having to change the size of the coffin and re-adjust the inherent Family member into another coffin without emballment! While this may sound macabre, it sounded perfectually normal to most people. Everything as you know is relative, Robert, as you have come to know, including death. Just one more detail....in my years of genealogical research, in searching cemeteries, I have often looked around them to see if a 25 ora 60 or a 100 year prescription had just expired-if this was so, I could then have a good chance to see a tomb which had just been deterred and take information off it. Sincerely yours, Jacques de Guise ----- Original Message ----- From: "guy grenny" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Cemetery----Removal > Hi Robert! > Thirty years after my Father's death, my siblings in Switzerland were > notified that within ca. 60 days his gravesite was up for "Re-use" > (turnover). This is in Aarau, Kanton Aargau. > They wanted to know what we wanted them to do with the gravestone.... > as that is considered the property of the family. > You have to also understand that, in general, bodies are not > embalmed* in Switzerland and therefore the natural decaying process > is unhindered (what a dreary subject). > As to what happens to the remaining remains ... bones, I can only > assume that they then are stored in a massgrave.** > Yes, you find many gravestones lined up along the outer > perimeters of cemetaries (I've seen this done here in USA also)..... > which would be done according to the wishes of the living family, if > there is any. I bet that each cemetary has their own policy as to > which qualify and which don't. I assume it would have something to do > with whether they are artistically desireable.? > ------------ > *) The Swiss attitude toward the literal "ashes to ashes.... dust to > dust" is simple, sincere and deeply felt; and many look upon the > American practices of embalming and trying to make the body look "as > alive as possible" as disrespectful to God and the desceased..... as > an aberrant deathcult...... > the denial that death is real. > **) Until around the 18th century churchyards in Switzerland typically > had a "Beinhaus" ...... (bone house or ossuary), a sturdy onestory > stone building, looking often like a tiny chapel, where these bones > where neatly stored. The walls were solid, except for some narrow > oblong openings at eyelevel where parishioners could peak in and be > reminded of their own mortality......"repent now, for one day you will > certainly end up in here.....looking just like this"! Some had > inscriptions and exhortations written across the little windows with > these sentiments. > Toward the end of the 18th century most of these ossuaries were no > longer used for this purpose, but many of these wellbuilt little stone > buildings were cleaned up and used for other purposes, like storing > grains, etc. Oh well, why not ;-) . Cheer up! > > Hanneli > PS. Of course, all the above is from my experience and readings only. > I'm certainly no expert. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Rothenbuhler <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:08 PM > Subject: [SWITZ] Cemetery----Removal > > > > Hi List, > > > > > > Isn't it true that in Switzerland, as well as other countries, the > cemeteries only keep caskets buried for a limited period of time, then > remove them and replace with new because of the limited space. My > question is what do they do with the caskets and the tombstones after > they are removed from the cemetery? > > > > Any comments would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robert Rothenbuehler > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > > Going on vacation? Gone longer than 4 days? Go to > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/SWITZERLAND.html > > to unsubscribe > > > > > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== > Swiss Resource Site > http://swiss.genealogy.net > ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Resource Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~chewgw

Hi Hanneli, I really appreciated your reply. I hadn't ever really thought about the burial practices in other countries but your info is thought-provoking. Given my aversion to the current practices here in America concerning embalming, $15,000+ funerals, etc., I found your info somehow scratched an itch. In older cemeteries that I've visited here on genealogy searches here in the upper Midwest, I've seen little stone buildings with windows and benches inside that have the surname of the family written across the archway. I guess I just used my own imagination as to their purpose. Oh what an odd lot we are, yes? Thanks again.... Marjorie