Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-07 20:25: > Bo, > Thanks for looking at all of these! It would be my ancestor whose > mother's name is in question! I will look through the marriage > records, but maybe the priest was just confused about Brita's name > since he had to correct it on the Household Examination. The > handwriting is really hard to read. I went through the marriage > records one time, but I will look again for the time period between > Catharina's birth and Olof's birth. --- I think it is most likely the same woman who is mother to all the children. > > What was the customary age at marriage? --- Around 25, but there was quite a bit of variation, some were 20, some were 30-35... > > One HFL gave Brita's birth > year as 1691, and the first child I have found was born in 1714. She > was 75 when she died 25 Nov 1767, assuming this was the same person. > The death record just gave her husband's name and address, but the HFL > said she died in 1767. --- Fits reasonably well with someone born 1691. // Bo Johansson

Tack Bo No haven't found his emigration record or that much on this man. All I know is he was married to Hulda Kristina Bergstrom my gt aunt. Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bo Johansson" <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> To: <sweden@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [SWEDEN] Need Help with Birth Place DianeLeMasson wrote 2013-01-07 22:13: > > I found on Ancestry a record of US Naturalization Record Indexes 1794-1995 > For Albert Johnson > Residence Hyde Park MA > Place & Date of Birth Feb 15th 1868 Dahlsland Sweden > > Albert died July 14 1923 in MA > However his name on burial record is Johnson, Jacob Albert > > I can not find Dahlsland but did find Dalsland in Älvsborg Län > Is the spelling of Dahlsland incorrect? > Please need help can't find that spelling in AD Dahlsland is most probably Dalsland province, the northern part of Älvsborg county. Do you know when he emigrated? // Bo Johanson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bo, The only marriage I have found for Olof Nilsson is Image 29/ page 25 in Kil C:1 (1708-1764), last entry at bottom of right page. It is marriage 21 on 8 Apr 1713, but the wife's name does not look like Brita. To me it looks like Elin - could be Swensdotter or Swånsdotter. I found the death record for Olof Nilsson, No. 8. at the bottom of the left page in Kil F:1 (1762-1826) Image 26/ page 24. Does it give a cause of death? His wife's death is recorded in the same book, Image 14/ page 12, Number 45. Kil AI:3 (1768-1773 Image 190/ page 176 Household Examination looks like Olof may have married again. The date 1773 is written through two columns, the ones for marriage and death. I didn't find a marriage during that year. Olof died in 1775, which was shown in the next book. Anna was not listed in his household in that book, so she may be the one who died, but the only Anna Pehrsdotter I found who died in 1773 was too old and from a different location. I checked marriages from 1767, when Brita died, through 1773 and did not find one for Olof Nilsson. I think I am ready to try a different family! This one has too many problems! Thank you. Annette On 1/7/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-07 20:25: >> Bo, >> Thanks for looking at all of these! It would be my ancestor whose >> mother's name is in question! I will look through the marriage >> records, but maybe the priest was just confused about Brita's name >> since he had to correct it on the Household Examination. The >> handwriting is really hard to read. I went through the marriage >> records one time, but I will look again for the time period between >> Catharina's birth and Olof's birth. > > --- I think it is most likely the same woman who is mother to all the > children. > >> >> What was the customary age at marriage? > > --- Around 25, but there was quite a bit of variation, some were 20, > some were 30-35... > > > >> One HFL gave Brita's birth >> year as 1691, and the first child I have found was born in 1714. She >> was 75 when she died 25 Nov 1767, assuming this was the same person. >> The death record just gave her husband's name and address, but the HFL >> said she died in 1767. > > --- Fits reasonably well with someone born 1691. > > // Bo Johansson > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi I found on Ancestry a record of US Naturalization Record Indexes 1794-1995 For Albert Johnson Residence Hyde Park MA Place & Date of Birth Feb 15th 1868 Dahlsland Sweden Albert died July 14 1923 in MA However his name on burial record is Johnson, Jacob Albert I can not find Dahlsland but did find Dalsland in Älvsborg Län Is the spelling of Dahlsland incorrect? Please need help can't find that spelling in AD Thanks Diane NJ

H, I am trying to find the birth location for Emm Lovisa Äkerman born 7-7-1854. I can find her with her husband Carl (Karl) Johan Fernstrom b 15-12-1853 or 1858 In Bromma Stockholm Household exam AI:26 page 198 1880-1885 and Delsbo, Gävleborg Household exam AI:17B page 431 1883-1894; but I can not make out the place of her birth. Can anyone help me? I am also, looking for the marriage record for Carl and Emma 23/6/82. Thank you for any information you can provide. Roni Gilberg

Bo, Thanks for looking at all of these! It would be my ancestor whose mother's name is in question! I will look through the marriage records, but maybe the priest was just confused about Brita's name since he had to correct it on the Household Examination. The handwriting is really hard to read. I went through the marriage records one time, but I will look again for the time period between Catharina's birth and Olof's birth. What was the customary age at marriage? One HFL gave Brita's birth year as 1691, and the first child I have found was born in 1714. She was 75 when she died 25 Nov 1767, assuming this was the same person. The death record just gave her husband's name and address, but the HFL said she died in 1767. Annette On 1/7/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 23:21: > > >> Olof Olofsson, born 1724 in Kihl, is my ancestor. Here is his birth >> record: >> Kil C:1 (1708-1764) Image 94/ page 90, Number 4, christened Feb 9, >> born Feb 4. It plainly lists the parents as Oluf Nilson & his wife >> Brita Olufsdotter from Kiallhult at Frösvidahl. > > --- OK > >> >> This must be the family - Kiallhult at Frösvidahl. >> AI:1 (1727-1740) Image 90/ page 85. >> Oluf Nilson & his wife Brita Svensdr with the following children and > > Notice the the wife's name has ben changed from Bengtsdoter(?) to > svesdotter. > > > >> their birth records, all from ArkivDigital Kil C:1 (1708-1764) : >> Nils - Image 36/ page 32, Num. 9 middle of right side > > --- 16 Aug 1714 Olof Nilsson, Brita Swänsdotter > >> Sven? (marked out and hard to read) - Image 73/ page 69, Num. 3 in 1718 > > --- 18 Jan 1718, Olof Nilsson, Brijta Svensdotter > > > >> Catharina Jan 1721- Image 82/ page 78, first entry on right side > > --- 21 Jan 1721, Olof Nilsson, Brijta Svensdotter > > > >> Oluf, Feb 1724 (see above) > > --- 4 Feb 1724, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Olufsdotter > > > > >> Brita, Mar 1727 - Image 106/ page 102, first entry on right side > > --- 15 Mar 1727, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Svensdotter > > > >> Lena, Aug 1733 - Image 130/ page 126, christened August 5, Number 15 in >> 1733 > > --- 5 Aug 1733, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Svensdotter > > > >> Lisa, Feb 1730 - Image 117/Page 113, first entry on right side, Elisabeth > > --- 25 Feb 1730, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Svensdotter > > >> >> In each of these birth records (except Nils, whose mother's name I >> can't read) the mother is plainly given as Brita Svensdotter. I found >> only one Oluf Olufsson born in Feb. 1724 in Kil, and the date matches >> the age on his death record (Tysslinge C:3 (1760-1797) Image 243), Aug >> 19). The above Oluf Nilsson was the only one in the Household >> Examination at that location. Am I missing something? Should I >> assume that the priest recorded the mother's name wrong? I know this >> is a lot to look at, but I am confused and could use another opinion. > > --- Such errors did happen, and in this case where she was called > Svensdotter for both earlier and later births, it seems safe to assume > that Olofsdotter in Olof's birth record is an error. > > The alternative would be that Olof Nilsson had three wifes, named Brita > Svensdotter, Brita Olofsdotter, and Brita Svensdotter. > > // Bo Johansson > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 23:47: > > It was "bruk". Olof Olofsson was called "mölnaren och Bygmästabs" > (Tysslinge AI:2Ver:a (1752-1754) Image 2130/ page 206). He lived at > Bleckbruket. His wife was the daughter of a master smith and both > came from the same place in Kil. The men on previous pages of the HE > were called "smedjan", but they did not have "smith names". I assume > that Olof had something to do with a iron mill or factory. Mjölnare = miller (at a grain mill) Byggmästare = master builder So even though it was at a "bruk", he was a miller. // Bo Johansson

Thank you, Bo. So many words in English have more than one meaning. Other languages seem to be more precise. I guess that is what makes translations sound strange at times. Annette On 1/7/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 23:47: > > >> It was "bruk". Olof Olofsson was called "mölnaren och Bygmästabs" >> (Tysslinge AI:2Ver:a (1752-1754) Image 2130/ page 206). He lived at >> Bleckbruket. His wife was the daughter of a master smith and both >> came from the same place in Kil. The men on previous pages of the HE >> were called "smedjan", but they did not have "smith names". I assume >> that Olof had something to do with a iron mill or factory. > > Mjölnare = miller (at a grain mill) > > Byggmästare = master builder > > So even though it was at a "bruk", he was a miller. > > // Bo Johansson > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 23:21: > > Olof Olofsson, born 1724 in Kihl, is my ancestor. Here is his birth record: > Kil C:1 (1708-1764) Image 94/ page 90, Number 4, christened Feb 9, > born Feb 4. It plainly lists the parents as Oluf Nilson & his wife > Brita Olufsdotter from Kiallhult at Frösvidahl. --- OK > > This must be the family - Kiallhult at Frösvidahl. > AI:1 (1727-1740) Image 90/ page 85. > Oluf Nilson & his wife Brita Svensdr with the following children and Notice the the wife's name has ben changed from Bengtsdoter(?) to svesdotter. > > their birth records, all from ArkivDigital Kil C:1 (1708-1764) : > Nils - Image 36/ page 32, Num. 9 middle of right side --- 16 Aug 1714 Olof Nilsson, Brita Swänsdotter > Sven? (marked out and hard to read) - Image 73/ page 69, Num. 3 in 1718 --- 18 Jan 1718, Olof Nilsson, Brijta Svensdotter > > Catharina Jan 1721- Image 82/ page 78, first entry on right side --- 21 Jan 1721, Olof Nilsson, Brijta Svensdotter > > Oluf, Feb 1724 (see above) --- 4 Feb 1724, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Olufsdotter > > Brita, Mar 1727 - Image 106/ page 102, first entry on right side --- 15 Mar 1727, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Svensdotter > > Lena, Aug 1733 - Image 130/ page 126, christened August 5, Number 15 in 1733 --- 5 Aug 1733, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Svensdotter > > Lisa, Feb 1730 - Image 117/Page 113, first entry on right side, Elisabeth --- 25 Feb 1730, Oluf Nilsson, Brita Svensdotter > > In each of these birth records (except Nils, whose mother's name I > can't read) the mother is plainly given as Brita Svensdotter. I found > only one Oluf Olufsson born in Feb. 1724 in Kil, and the date matches > the age on his death record (Tysslinge C:3 (1760-1797) Image 243), Aug > 19). The above Oluf Nilsson was the only one in the Household > Examination at that location. Am I missing something? Should I > assume that the priest recorded the mother's name wrong? I know this > is a lot to look at, but I am confused and could use another opinion. --- Such errors did happen, and in this case where she was called Svensdotter for both earlier and later births, it seems safe to assume that Olofsdotter in Olof's birth record is an error. The alternative would be that Olof Nilsson had three wifes, named Brita Svensdotter, Brita Olofsdotter, and Brita Svensdotter. // Bo Johansson

Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 22:23: > > In this context what would be the job of the "miller"? I am more > familiar with the term "miller" being used for a grist mill or a saw > mill. That depends on what kind of mill, I think "kvarn" and "bruk" can both be translated as mill. Plus "såg" (saw-mill). A "kvarn" is for grinding grain, it is managed by a "mjölnare". A "bruk" (factory, foundry, mill) could be managed by a "bruks-patron" or "inspector" or something. // Bo Johansson

It was "bruk". Olof Olofsson was called "mölnaren och Bygmästabs" (Tysslinge AI:2Ver:a (1752-1754) Image 2130/ page 206). He lived at Bleckbruket. His wife was the daughter of a master smith and both came from the same place in Kil. The men on previous pages of the HE were called "smedjan", but they did not have "smith names". I assume that Olof had something to do with a iron mill or factory. Annette On 1/6/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 22:23: >> >> In this context what would be the job of the "miller"? I am more >> familiar with the term "miller" being used for a grist mill or a saw >> mill. > > That depends on what kind of mill, I think "kvarn" and "bruk" can both > be translated as mill. Plus "såg" (saw-mill). > > A "kvarn" is for grinding grain, it is managed by a "mjölnare". > > A "bruk" (factory, foundry, mill) could be managed by a "bruks-patron" > or "inspector" or something. > > // Bo Johansson > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Olof Olofsson, born 1724 in Kihl, is my ancestor. Here is his birth record: Kil C:1 (1708-1764) Image 94/ page 90, Number 4, christened Feb 9, born Feb 4. It plainly lists the parents as Oluf Nilson & his wife Brita Olufsdotter from Kiallhult at Frösvidahl. This must be the family - Kiallhult at Frösvidahl. AI:1 (1727-1740) Image 90/ page 85. Oluf Nilson & his wife Brita Svensdr with the following children and their birth records, all from ArkivDigital Kil C:1 (1708-1764) : Nils - Image 36/ page 32, Num. 9 middle of right side Sven? (marked out and hard to read) - Image 73/ page 69, Num. 3 in 1718 Catharina Jan 1721- Image 82/ page 78, first entry on right side Oluf, Feb 1724 (see above) Brita, Mar 1727 - Image 106/ page 102, first entry on right side Lena, Aug 1733 - Image 130/ page 126, christened August 5, Number 15 in 1733 Lisa, Feb 1730 - Image 117/Page 113, first entry on right side, Elisabeth In each of these birth records (except Nils, whose mother's name I can't read) the mother is plainly given as Brita Svensdotter. I found only one Oluf Olufsson born in Feb. 1724 in Kil, and the date matches the age on his death record (Tysslinge C:3 (1760-1797) Image 243), Aug 19). The above Oluf Nilsson was the only one in the Household Examination at that location. Am I missing something? Should I assume that the priest recorded the mother's name wrong? I know this is a lot to look at, but I am confused and could use another opinion. Thank you. Annette

Lennart, Thank you for your response and for the links to your articles on blacksmiths. They help me to understand how my ancestors lived. In this context what would be the job of the "miller"? I am more familiar with the term "miller" being used for a grist mill or a saw mill. My great-grandfather's mother was the daughter of a master smith, and both of her grandparents were from families of smiths. Annette On 1/6/13, Lennart Elg <len_elg@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen asked: “Smiths had last names that were not patronymics. Do > you know how they got them? Were they inheritable? Is there something I > could read on this subject?” > > When a blacksmith´s apprentice advanced to blacksmith he regularly changed > his name from the patronymic "-son" to a family name, often indicating the > family´s origins. Most likely this was a way to mark a step up the social > ladder: The blacksmith was a an independent contractor who worked on > contract for the iron mill´s owner. If he was a skilled blacksmith he could > recieve extra payment for quality which exceeded what was considered > standard given the raw materials he was supplied with. > > It is also possible that this naming tradition was inspired by family names > used by German and later Belgian (walloon) experts imported to get the iron > industry started in Sweden. In the ironmaking heartland of west/central > Sweden, where my family comes from, many blacksmiths were descended from > Finnish settlers in the early 17th century, who also carried this naming > tradition. > > Once a blacksmith had adopted such a name, it was usually inherited. In my > case, the name “Elg” appears around 1730 and is still in use. The sons of > blacksmiths often carried on the tradition, learning the trade as > apprentices to other blacksmiths, often uncles or even older brothers. Most > of my paternal ancestors worked in the trade for almost two centuries. > > See also > http://elgfamily.blogspot.se/2011/01/blacksmith-profession-in-swedish.html > and > http://elgfamily.blogspot.se/2010/07/role-of-blacksmiths-in-ironmaking.html– > not about naming but other aspects of the blacksmith profession in Sweden. > > Lennart Elg > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Bo, Thank you. I had another death record for a child that had numbers in those last columns. I guessed that they might be days and weeks since I could read the columns for Years and Months. Annette On 1/6/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 01:14: >> >> Are the columns for the age - years, months, weeks, days? I recognize >> the words for year, month and day, but I'm not sure of the word for >> the column between month and day. > > They column headers are better readable on the right page, the 3 first > are clearly: > > Sjuk-dom (illness > ålder år (age years) > månad (months) > > I'm less sure about he last two columns, they might be "w" and "d" for > weeks and days. > > // Bo Johansson > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Bo. I will bookmark that site. It has lots of useful information. Annette On 1/6/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 00:37: >> >> Smiths had last names that were not patronymics. Do you know how they >> got them? Were they inheritable? Is there something I could read on >> this subject? > > I'm not an expert on smith names, perhaps some info here: > > http://web.comhem.se/~u31263678/genealogy/ > > // Bo Johansson > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Annette Bowen asked: “Smiths had last names that were not patronymics. Do you know how they got them? Were they inheritable? Is there something I could read on this subject?” When a blacksmith´s apprentice advanced to blacksmith he regularly changed his name from the patronymic "-son" to a family name, often indicating the family´s origins. Most likely this was a way to mark a step up the social ladder: The blacksmith was a an independent contractor who worked on contract for the iron mill´s owner. If he was a skilled blacksmith he could recieve extra payment for quality which exceeded what was considered standard given the raw materials he was supplied with. It is also possible that this naming tradition was inspired by family names used by German and later Belgian (walloon) experts imported to get the iron industry started in Sweden. In the ironmaking heartland of west/central Sweden, where my family comes from, many blacksmiths were descended from Finnish settlers in the early 17th century, who also carried this naming tradition. Once a blacksmith had adopted such a name, it was usually inherited. In my case, the name “Elg” appears around 1730 and is still in use. The sons of blacksmiths often carried on the tradition, learning the trade as apprentices to other blacksmiths, often uncles or even older brothers. Most of my paternal ancestors worked in the trade for almost two centuries. See also http://elgfamily.blogspot.se/2011/01/blacksmith-profession-in-swedish.html and http://elgfamily.blogspot.se/2010/07/role-of-blacksmiths-in-ironmaking.html– not about naming but other aspects of the blacksmith profession in Sweden. Lennart Elg

Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 01:14: > > Are the columns for the age - years, months, weeks, days? I recognize > the words for year, month and day, but I'm not sure of the word for > the column between month and day. They column headers are better readable on the right page, the 3 first are clearly: Sjuk-dom (illness ålder år (age years) månad (months) I'm less sure about he last two columns, they might be "w" and "d" for weeks and days. // Bo Johansson

Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-06 00:37: > > Smiths had last names that were not patronymics. Do you know how they > got them? Were they inheritable? Is there something I could read on > this subject? I'm not an expert on smith names, perhaps some info here: http://web.comhem.se/~u31263678/genealogy/ // Bo Johansson

Thank you, Bo. Now I'll have to see if the book has a list of the codes. It does! Image 237 has a list. 26 looks like Scarlet fever. I was expecting it to say old age. Are the columns for the age - years, months, weeks, days? I recognize the words for year, month and day, but I'm not sure of the word for the column between month and day. Thank you. Annette On 1/5/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Annette Bowen wrote 2013-01-05 02:43: > > >> I need help reading the second death record for Nils Jan Ludvigssons >> wife from Bleckbruket. Her age should be 73 (the HFL Tysslinge AI:10 >> (1796-1800) Image 205/ Page 200 said she was born in 1725 and died in >> 1798), but I am not sure what the other numbers are. Was the date of >> death Nov. 5 and her burial Nov 11? What is 26? > > Death date: 5 Nov 1798 > Burial Date: 11 Nov > Text: "Klensmeds" (smith making small things) master Nils Jan > Ludvicsson's wife at Bleckbruket > Illness ("Sjukdom"): 26 > Age, years: 73(?) > > 26 seems to be some kind of code for the cause of death. > > // Bo Johansson > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Bo, Thank you so much for your help with this family! I think I have gone as far as I can go with this line since I have gotten back to the earliest church books for the parish. There also seem to be missing books in Tysslinge parish, leaving a few gaps in my research. Finding Maria Samuelsdotter's father answered my questions concerning records that I thought were her marriages, but which gave her name as Maria Taberman. (I am not sure if the name begins with T or F. Sometimes it looks like T and sometimes like F.) I found Samuel Taberman in the HFL at Frösvidahl. Maria's parents were not young when she was born in 1725. Her father was born in 1680 and her mother in 1688. Smiths had last names that were not patronymics. Do you know how they got them? Were they inheritable? Is there something I could read on this subject? Thank you! Annette On 1/5/13, Bo Johansson <bo.h.johan56@telia.com> wrote: > Bo Johansson wrote 2013-01-05 08:33: >> >> --- Baptised 17 Jan 1725, number 4 >> Master smith Samuel Taberman's and wife Kerstin Erichsdotter's daughter >> Maria at Frösvidahl born the 14th Jan. >> Witnesses: Nils Michelsson and Anton Martinsson, assistant smiths, wife >> Sisilia Olufsdotter, maid Brita Erichsdoter. > > Or maybe Samuel Faberman... > > // Bo Johansson > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SWEDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >