"Come All Ye Coal Miners" is probably one of the best documentaries of early coal mining one would ever want to view. It was produced and can be rented through East Tennessee State University. They have a wonderful selection of titles of books and videos listed under Appalachian Studies section of their library. They are or were on line. I do not have the address available right now. Kentucky University (?) also have films that can be rented only by residents of KY or through intra library loans. They have Between Rock and a Hard Place but would not loan it to me in California but did provide me the address where I could purchase it. They too, have a wonderful library of Appalachian videos and books. Come All Ye Coal Miners is a roughly cut and narrated documentary because they used all actual footage and music of the period. It is well narrated. What is wonderful about this film is that it is actual footage and shows what the life of a coal miner was really like. I do not wish to blow you down with the unreasonable cost for renting this film but it is all of $5.00 for a month and these wonderful people at ETSU showered me with praise for doing business with them.

"Between Rock and a Hard Place" was a documentary film was a film shot around Amonate, VA about the fears, frustrations and hardships of three coal miners in the Appalachia, ulluminating the human side of these resilient, strong and proud men. (Read off the video box) One of these men, John Smith was the husband of my wife's aunt Dlphia Lowe Smith. The film was produced in 1981 and is now out of print. It is available at many libraries or can be made available through intra library loans. To purchase a copy is very expensive. The saying "Between Rock and Hard Place" was coined by coal miners which originated in the days before unions. Coal miners did not get paid for removing rock that was in the way of coal seams at times. They only got paid for the actual coal dug and loaded. That could mean a long time between paydays which always ran out way before the next pay day. A hard place was just that. A "place" was referred to as the location of their work at any given time. So their plight in the worse sense was to end up between a lot of rock and a place that is difficult to work or live. Note: The letter "A" is not inserted Between "A" Rock in this reference as generally used. I won't argue if this reference is the original for that old saying, but I believe it is. Robert Crabtree

Hi Pat - What a sad story. I taped Matewan off PBS - you might try their online store. Good luck. BTW, Hazel Dickens wrote and recorded some of the music for the movie. She once gave me a copy of a tape of hers called "Coal-Mining Women" (I think) which spoke to the involvement of the wives and mothers. Rounder Records and the Smithsonian sell her music - true Appalachian. Brenda Curtis

I have an article with picture of the Shot Tower located about 18 miles South of Fort Chiswell at Jackson's Ferry where Route 52 crosses New River. It also mentioned that it was located near the lead mines. It was built around 1820 so they could sell the shot directly and save $100 in the cost of shipping lead bars to Baltimore. I read where the iron ore at Cripple Creek was one of the main reasons to build the Clinchfield Railroad. Robert Crabtree

RE: Cash for Land Purchases/Hauling Tobacco, other products. When we were discussing sugarcane and Cotton a few weeks ago, I posted a message that referred to Tobacco being one of the major crops until Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin in 1794. Then cotton became the major crop. Hauling lead and iron ore: My dad used to help my uncle haul scrap iron from Ewing, VA, by wagon, 15 miles to Cumberland Gap. The oneway trip took a full day, about 1905. I can't imagine such heavy loads being hauled long distances by wagon. But, then, I never could imagine how Daniel Boone, Jim Bowie, and Davie Crockett, managed to get from NC to KY to TX on foot and horseback. It seems their trails led everywhere. How old were they when they died???? (don't answer that.) History was not one of my favorite subjects-until I got old enough to become a part of it!! Pat -----Original Message----- From: Edgar A. Howard <swvaroot@swva.net> To: SW_VA-L@rootsweb.com <SW_VA-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Cash for Land Purchases I can not say when tobacco was first grown in SW VA but given that it was the primary cash crop I would think it started very early. The questions with it is how did they get it to the markets. Most was sent to England before the War and to Europe (the Dutch) thereafter. I guess some went north. Was it take by wagon, floated down the James or Roanoke, or New to Ohio to the Miss. river to New Orleans. Or down the TN River?? Edgar A. Howard wrote: > > > The BIG QUESTION on my mind is where did these poor > pioneers get the cash to make these purchases. Some of my families came to VA after selling land in PA in the mid 1700's. Some came from families in eastern VA and Maryland that had large plantations. They probably inherited some money or land to sell before moving westward. Were there areas in SW VA that tobacco could be grown for a cash crop? At least one ancestor was a longhunter, but I don't know how much cash these hunters would have made from furs. Phyllis "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more." ==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== #1 When you have a new email address please UNSUBSCRIBE from the old BEFORE you lose it; and SUBCRIBE from the NEW address as soon as you get access to it. If you fail to do this please send the old and new address to: ehoward@conknet.com and the Mailing List name -sysop

As I recall reading somewhere about my own ancestors, when the immigrants settled in VA and elsewhere, if they had paid passage to America, they were granted 50 acres of land for each member in their party. A family of six would begin with 300 acres, which wasn't a bad start. And, isn't it true that veterans of war received horses and land after mustering out, according to their ranks and terms of service? (I believe I read that also. My comments are merely food for thought! Oops--there's another expression-"food for thought.") A couple with a family of boys could quickly build their farm production. I remember my mother saying that my dad's father was a poor farmer. All of his boys left VA and traveled west, leaving him with only one young son to work the farm. He couldn't afford hired help. My mother's father was what one might call a workhorse. He was a blacksmith, farmer, owner of the general store, had his own gristmill, and didn't believe in idle hands, regardless of age or sex. She remembered falling faint in the cornfield various times because the corn was so tall, the temperature so hot and humid, and no air stirring between the rows of corn. On one occasion she and two sisters were overcome by the heat. The local doctor (Suttles) instructed my grandfather that he was much too hard on the girls. He was going to kill them. They couldn't take to hard labor. Grandpa would put the toddlers in the garden planting corn when they learned to hold up two fingers. That meant they could put two kernels of corn to a hill. (Aren't our children spoiled???) May I say that since the lady asked the question, "What were homes built of between 1810-1850", the responses and new questions have held my interest. I have learned so much history about our ancestors. I realize researching our lineage is of vital concern, but look what we have learned about all those names, birth/death dates. They weren't just names. They had a life!!!! And I have the utmost admiration for them. My ancestors: ROWLETT/ESTEP/CARMACK/NEVILS/YEARY/CAMPBELL/BROOKS, all from VA/TN. Know any of them?? Pat O'Neal

The lead mined at the Chiswell mines was made into "shot" at the old shot tower and distributed to forts and the military on the frontier. The lead was melted at the top of the "shot tower" and poured through screens down into the water of New River below..A tunnel connected the river to the shaft dug under the tower and boats were taken in to bring the shot out..The top of the shot tower was more than a hundred feet above the level of the river and as the molten lead fell from the screen it formed into round pellets, like rain drops. When it hit the cold water it "chilled and retained it's shape which was suitable for use in guns.. of course, there were "bullet molds" for making rifle ammunition..Some lead was used in this manner also..More later... G. Lee Hearl Abingdon, Va...

Hello cousin Ed and all my other cousins, I am going to present an original letter written in 1872 but I would like to say a few things first. I am also puzzled about where the money came from when they decided to purchase a piece of land, especially just after the Civil War. I can understand having "money" in other eras of time but during and after the Civil War? There just was NOT any "hard" money in swVA and neTN up until after the coming of TVA and the manufacturing plants today. As late as the 1930s, the average person had but very little "hard" money. I can remember my grandmother going to the local store with eggs and butter to exchange with the store owner for staple items that she needed and could not come by in any other way! I agree with Ed that most "money" was some sort of barter in this region all down through historical times. And that tobacco was used as the main staple of barter but I have seen where people paid off debts with buckets, barrels, etc.. In fact, if one wished to get past the present "politically incorrect" useage of tobacco, one might very well say that our very country was founded on raising, selling and shipping of tobacco, especially the first 100 years. I know Ed and most people living here in this region well knows how the official State Theater of Virginia got it's name. The name of the theater is "Barter Theater." People would bring foodstuffs and items to barter for the privilege of getting into the theater for a performance. Such greats as James C. Scott, Gregory Peck and Ernest Borgnine are alumni of this famous theater. In fact, up until recent years, they would occasionally come back for a visit and tour. Here is an original letter I have found that shows several things. This letter is from some of my ancestors. It shows the hardship of the times of 1872, the poignancy and loneliness of a woman trying to help her ailing and dying husband, and a plea for help to anyone that she can. This woman is a proud woman and she is trying to make conservation along other lines rather than to appear to be just asking for help. Here is the letter she wrote so long ago. SPELLING is as it was in the letter so as not to destroy the flavor of the letter: Lee County VA Nov. the 24,1872 Mr. B. T. Hood Dear Brother I seat my self this beautiful morning to writ you a few lines in answer to your kind letter, which was received and read with mutch care. Well, this leaves us all well as common except the old man, he is very bad with colic and lung disease. He has tried the doctors here and instid of getting better he gets worse. The doctors here have done all they can for him. Dr. Gardner in sinsonation says he can cure him and will cure him for $10.00, he can't raise the money. He has got $5.00 owed to him dew now, the amt. and no money here now to get. If You will send me $10.00 dollars I will pledge anything I have got property or land. I have tried to sell property for half price and can't get the money for nothing. I hate to write to you for it tho I will do anything to save his life. Please send me the money if you can and you never shall loose anything. Just as quick as I can get it, I will send it to you. If you send that money you had better register it. Well Ben, the old man wants you and Alfurd to conic out at once. He wants you to fix up some business for him. And if either one will come, do come now for I am seeing a hard time. Have had so much sickness. Oh, no one knows the lonesome hours I have spent for the last year. Tell all of them to come for we want to see them all. When you answer my letter tell me where Brother Alfurd lives. Has he ever married or not? Give me his post address, don't fail to write. Oh, it is so much company to me to read a letter from a dear brother like you. We aim to come to see you this fall just before we got ready to start he was taken down and he never has been able to set up much since. I see more trouble than tung can express. I am here an no one to help me. It would be all the pleasure in the world for me to spend a few hours with you. If we never see each other any more until the last trumphet shall blow may we all meet in glory where we will part no more. I still remain you affecting sister until death. From, Louisa Penley To: B. T. Hood Good By fore a while End of letter I have rambled on long enough now so....... Until later, good hunting, Jerry in Kingsport, TN www.penjaccphoto.com

Did that include an account at the 'company store' ?? Yes, I agree with Delilah, It is very sad to see all the things that went on in our relatives lives. I have a slip where my Grandfather worked for Caretta Mines, in SWV, He only cleared $9.20 after working 80 hours in the 40's. His Gross Wage was $140.00 for 2 weeks pay. But by the time, they took everything out it was the $9.20. No wonder so many of the people back then Drank Moonshine. ==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== #5 It is YOUR responsibility to know how to SUBSCRIBE & UNSUBSCRIBE. It is done by computer. Put the word SUBSCRIBE in the body of the message with nothing else. The address is sw_va-l-request@rootsweb.com . or -d- for DIGEST mode. All this is in the Welcome statement I ask you to save. -sysop "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more."

Several members have mentioned the sale of land "back east" or in PA. I'm sure this is true. But I refer to those who came of age about the War and in a few years after bought sizable lands in Wash. Co. One was about 17 years when he fought at Kings Mt. but within ten years was buying multiple lands in Wash. Co. I just don't see how he got the land. Maybe I will work up the total sum and post it to give a clearer picture. I'm sure it is typical. Some of the earliest ones probably had cash from fur trapping, ie. the Longhunters. Many coming into the area we are dealing with, had sold land "back east", in the place they were coming from. Most were not new immigrants. This would give them cash. The land entries that people received back in the 1740's did not take much if any cash to acquire. They were given to encourage settlers. Before that there were the 'head rights' which were also given by the Colony. These land holdings would have been sold for enough to buy the land you are talking about. The fact of the land price going up later is harder to explain, except for the fact that there was not enough land to supply the demand. Newcomers might not have known the land in the Hollows was played out and over paid. These are the first off the top of my head. Diana Williams Walling, Blevins, Jones, McFerran, Laughlin, Quillin ==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== #9 As of 2/27/1999 we have 485 members. Traffic can get heavy so check your mailbox often. We should regulate traffic so it don't get out of hand. There is an average of ten members coming and going each week. -sysop "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more."

I can not say when tobacco was first grown in SW VA but given that it was the primary cash crop I would think it started very early. The questions with it is how did they get it to the markets. Most was sent to England before the War and to Europe (the Dutch) thereafter. I guess some went north. Was it take by wagon, floated down the James or Roanoke, or New to Ohio to the Miss. river to New Orleans. Or down the TN River?? Edgar A. Howard wrote: > > > The BIG QUESTION on my mind is where did these poor > pioneers get the cash to make these purchases. Some of my families came to VA after selling land in PA in the mid 1700's. Some came from families in eastern VA and Maryland that had large plantations. They probably inherited some money or land to sell before moving westward. Were there areas in SW VA that tobacco could be grown for a cash crop? At least one ancestor was a longhunter, but I don't know how much cash these hunters would have made from furs. Phyllis "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more."

<<James Harrold, thought to be one of Richards sons, came to Washington County, Va. in 1769 and settled on unsurveyed land..he received a deed for it about 1780.>> The creek along Hwy 19 at Greendale was called Harrold's creek originally. I see different names now. Greendale creek, etc. I wonder if that is where he settled. -eddie "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more."

<<One must remember that each small community formed a local economy, there were grain mills where corn and wheat could be sold and turned into meal and flour, sawmills where logs were made into lumber, blacksmith shops which used locally produced "pig iron", wagon and stagecoach factories, shoemakers, spinners and weavers..all of them turning raw materials into finished products for local people..>> But I have always been told that the early frontier was a barter economy or used a commodity currency, e.g. tobacco or corn. Or salt. I know furs brought a good price and were light enough to transport to the major markets. Iron, etc. could not. I don't see corn being shipped cost effectively. Wheat maybe. There would be foreign markets for it. I'm guessing because like I said I have never seen anything in writing. Thanks, eddie "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more."

But when did it start?? Would it generate the money for land purchases?? I don't see iron or lead be 'floated' anywhere. That would have to been limited to locate consumption. Even horses would not take lead far over the roads of the day. >Mr. Hearl said: Tobacco and salt produced in southwest Va. was floated by flatboat down the >rivers to New Orleans to be sold. There was also lead and iron from Wythe County. The old Shot Tower still stands that was near the lead mines. Robert Crabtree "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more."

A patent was like a deed from the gov't. It was more like a title or certificate. I would have thought there was money involved. It could have been a settlement or homestead grant from the gov't. I don't know the land law of MO at that time. -eddie Date sent: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:57:30 -0500 To: "Edgar A. Howard" <swvaroot@swva.net> From: Barbara <barbiluv@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Cash for Land Purchases Is a land patent different? Although it says cash purchase I can find no amount. This has a presidential signature by proxy of James Buchanan. I ran across it yesterday while researching my daughter in law's tree. Dated October 1857, Missouri. Sorry this isn't list related but it has me curious. Barbara At 10:16 PM 3/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Members, > > In the past three months I have spend a lot of time on maps, >land grants and deeds. I have focused on my families they were >average in their wealth. Typical of many in SW VA. > > The BIG QUESTION on my mind is where did these poor >pioneers get the cash to make these purchases. I see purchase >sums of $100, 200, and up to $500 for land purchases. I don't see a >source for this cash. The access to markets east of the Blue Ridge >were limited. I don't think the farms were so productive above >subsistance enough to produce that cash. It is a mystery. >There settlement right and other early grants were cheap but when >they later bought from each other the price went up. I would love to >hear possible answers. > >-eddie > >"Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more." > > >==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== >#1 When you have a new email address please UNSUBSCRIBE from the >old BEFORE you lose it; and SUBCRIBE from the NEW address as soon >as you get access to it. If you fail to do this please send the >old and new address to: ehoward@conknet.com and the Mailing List name >-sysop > > > "Toto, I don't think we are in NH any more."

Researching the following surnames: BURKE, CARTER, PATRICK, WINGO, McGRADY, WIMBERLEY, WITT/WHITT, HENSLEY, ROBERTSON. -----Original Message----- From: Sherry [SMTP:dansher@cybrtown.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 10:06 PM To: SW_VA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Matewan For more info on Matewan, go to: http://www.matewan.com/ Sherry ==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== #7 "Roll Calls" or such by other names are to be called by the SYSOP ONLY. NO WARNINGS!! Each member is free to post their SURNAMES anytime they please. Hi Sherry, I can't THANK YOU enough for giving this information...this website was just great...it gave me a clearer picture of what my Mom's experiences were like during the Strike ... I can't wait to share this with my sister.... And a special thank you to those who have commented on some of my posts..I really appreciate that so much... There's another old saying that goes " You can take the boy (girl) out of the country..but you can't take the country out of the boy (girl) "... we left Kentucky/West Virginia when I was three and moved to Illinois but as Dorothy said in The Wizard of OZ.... " THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE HOME".... right... ToTo and Eddie... I am VERY VERY proud of my Southern Heritage...the warmth..the hospitality..the friendliness...the williness to help another person...and there's always the good Southern food...as far as I'm concerned " You couldn't beat us with a stick" (find any other folks better, ANYWHERE)..... God Bless Pam Pam

One of my grandfathers, Abraham Musick, was a skilled blacksmith and he had his shop on his family land. As one might expect of a blacksmith, he is described as being a strongly muscled man, of slightly over average height, with a barrel chest, large arms of great strength, and dark hair. One story told of him, describes his temper, as well. He had made at the request of a customer a peice of equipment. He had told that customer what the price of the peice would be and had gotten the ok to go ahead. But when the customer, who also happened to be a neighbor came to pick up the peice, he wanted to re-negotiate the price and did so by denigrating the workmanship. See this burr here, and the curve is not quite right, and on, and on. If there was anything my grandfather was proud of, it was his skill and his temper, legendary in the community, came forth in full blossom. He took the peice from the hands of his neighbor and told him in no uncertain terms to get off his property and never let the sun cast his shadow on the land again. The neighbor needing the peice, knowing that there was no other blacksmith nearby, began trying to reconcile immediately but Abe would have nothing of it. He told the man to 'git, and git now!' and the man did indeed start back- peddling, but he also continued to 'Now, Abe, now Abe!' My grandfather picked up the axe that was laying nearby and raised it over his head. The neighbor turned and began to run. Abe threw the axe at him and whether deliberately or not, missed him and the axe hit a tree beyond him. The axe buried in so deeply, that they never did get it out. If the tree is still there, then so is the axe. (smile) This grandfather is famous in our family for more than this story, but I suspect that the temper played a part of what I am telling you here. Abraham Musick was married to Rachel Collins and one of their descendants told me that the two had twelve children. I am not one of those descendants. My great-great grandmother Mary Collins, sister of Rachel, was orphaned and went to live with Rachel and Abe. Mary bore Abe two children as far as I can tell. Now my family knew there was a secret of some sort here, but it was only as I began to do genealogy that this secret slowly unfolded. Apparently none of the descendants of Abe and Rachel knew of this liason. The three of them lived together and my great grandmother was married from Abraham Musicks house at the age of 13 years. I wonder how the two sisters felt about this arrangement? I suspect that they had little choice in the matter. A first cousin of my dad's, told me that Abraham would rush out of his shop, yell at Mary, ' Mary, I want, I want - Oh, damn-it-to-hell, you know what I want!' and poor Mary, scared half out of her wits, would gather up everything she could find and take it to him, hoping one would be what he wanted. One of Abe's and Rachel's descendants sent me the following description of their property. I don't know if this was the land on which the above story of the axe took place or not. "If you rolled down the mt. off of the Clark Castle Cemetery on the south side you would roll into Sycamore Hollow where Abraham and Rachel Collins Musick had raised their family and watched them spred out all over, but mainly staying around the Johnson Co. Ky area. There was not much bottom land for farming but they seem (sic) to make it work. There are area's where it is only about 50 feet between Sycamore and the next Mtn. So this family raised a lot of what they ate and did a lot of loggin, and a little farming. >From one mountainside to the next where they lived was abt 100 feet and that is a long (estimate). Their house was positioned where they looked toward the southern mountain. From the front porch of this house abt (40 ft) was a rockcliff where the mountain started back up again. There was then and there is now a small clear stream that runs down the hollow." I have seen many a place that could fit this description. Another of my grandfathers, was Alden Williamson. All family records state Alden Williamson's first wife was Isabell Thompson, but none give definitely when or where they were married. Records partly official and partly traditional are to the effect that after the Revolutionary War was over, Alden came to the Clinch River Valley of Western Virginia. Whether he had married in Fincastle County and they came together or they were married in Tazewell County is not known. Family records, also state that Alden Williamson died in 1816, while going down the Tug River on a raft of timber. He is buried on the Bill Little farm, formerly the Sam Endicott farm. This farm is on the Kentucky side of the river, a short distance below the mouth of West Virginia Camp Creek. I have often wondered what Alden was doing on that raft. Was he going to or returning from getting supplies, was rafting people and material his 'job?' If the family records could record HOW he died why couldn't they have recorded what he was doing and WHY when it happened? Be glad to share info on either of these lines. Nancy S

>Mr. Hearl said: Tobacco and salt produced in southwest Va. was floated by flatboat down the >rivers to New Orleans to be sold. There was also lead and iron from Wythe County. The old Shot Tower still stands that was near the lead mines. Robert Crabtree

Charles Starnes mentions Harlan, KY. Matewan dealt with the early confrontations of coal miners against the mine operators. Harlan, KY history of confrontations has been continuous throughout the years. He mentions the strike of the 1970s. I remember the strike of the 50s. It seems that the first of the problems to erupt came from Harlan. These people were and still are a no nonsense bunch that are ready to fight for what they think is right. I worked with a man that once worked in the Harlan Company Store. He had some stories to tell and was respectful of these mountain folks.

I taped the movie Matewan when it was shown on TV. It was a true-to-life rendition of how brutally people treated each other in union labor disputes. The coal miners were undecided whether or not to have a union shop. It was a really well done story, but it isn't for the faint-hearted people to watch. My husband and I were born in Huntington WV and have heard a lot about labor union struggles. I don't know how Matewan got it's name. Ruth Hanley