Eddie, Your comment (scan down) is absolutely true.. The law applied to ALL who were on land for which a grant or other claim had not been obtained through legal channels.. In many cases they lost their cleared land and cabins to those who had obtained the larger land grants and included them in their surveys.. Daniel Boone made surveys in Ky. on land bought by Jusge Henderson from the Cherokees and neither N.C. or Va. accepted the purchase as legal.. Va. sent surveyors in to determine the boundaries for the land people had purchased from Henderson and found many farms overlapped and someone had to lose land.. It took several years to get the mess straightened out.. Boone moved on to Missouri (which was under Spanish control at the time) and he lost his land there too.. He was later awarded land by congress, I believe... However, I have not heard of any law in the Commonwealth of Va..since 1875 which prevented anyone from owning land or attending school, and that seems to be the period being discussed.. Eddies' Comment: >>I think what happened is close to what the Indian experienced. It was a difference in law and culture. White man law said you have to survey and apply for a grant. Basically buying a title to the land. If the Indian or Melungeon was on the land but a white surveyed it they could legally take it. Daniel Boone and those he sold to lost a lot of land the same way. So it is not discrimination or victimhood, it is a matter of following the law. -eddie<< G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Virginia

At 01:51 PM 8/11/00 -0400, [email protected] wrote: >Volks, ><snipped> > I find Nancy's argument very interesting which is not to say I >agree. Given the little traffic on the List I choose to allow it. But let's >make it easy for those whom are not interested to delete it without >opening it. > > THEREFORE, all post on the subject of Melungeon >persecution/racism, etc. shall have the exact SUBJECT as follows: > > "Melungeons & Racism" > > OK?? Please comply and be tolerant. Thanks. > >-eddie Way to go eddie! pat (looking forward to the next round)

On 11 Aug 00, at 10:08, G. Lee Hearl: I think what happened is close to what the Indian experienced. It was a difference in law and culture. White man law said you have to survey and apply for a grant. Basically buying a title to the land. If the Indian or Melungeon was on the land but a white surveyed it they could legally take it. Daniel Boone and those he sold to lost a lot of land the same way. So it is not discrimination or victimhood, it is a matter of following the law. -eddie <<Walter A. Plecker and a lot of other folks were involved in eugenics and policies which made folks who were not considered 'white' unable to vote, unable to own land, unable to marry anyone who was considered 'white,' and kept folks from schooling their children.>> Please cite some laws which prevented Minorities from owning land..or attending school.. Then I will accept your comments on this point as true.. Thanks, G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Virginia ==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== #8 Anyone interested and researching SW VA and Appalachian history might be interested in the Fincastle History Forum list. Contact Edgar at [email protected] for a copy of the rules. ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/

<<Walter A. Plecker and a lot of other folks were involved in eugenics and policies which made folks who were not considered 'white' unable to vote, unable to own land, unable to marry anyone who was considered 'white,' and kept folks from schooling their children.>> Please cite some laws which prevented Minorities from owning land..or attending school.. Then I will accept your comments on this point as true.. Thanks, G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Virginia

Nancy I did some research and ran across the 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States. The 14th Amendment provides, in part, that: "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The 15th Amendment provides that: "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." According to this language, the State of Virginia, whether acting through Walter Plecker or otherwise, does not have the right to prevent a person from owning property or voting on account of race. Since these Amendments were adopted after the War Between the States, and since that Conflict was fought, in part, to insure that Blacks were no longer considered "property", I really can't see the Federal government allowing a State to blatantly ignore this provision by passing laws which prevent a person from owning land or voting. The anti-miscegenation laws are another matter entirely, and would not prevent a person from appearing in a tax list. Phil [IN RESPONSE TO:] >> ALL FREE MEN IN VIRGINIA could own land from the beginning of the Colonies [email protected] wrote: > > I did not say ANY race, I said Melungeon and I thought I included Native > Americans and mulatoes etc. And up until abt 1662, I believe that any MAN > not a slave could own land, but after that laws began to change and things > got worse. > > Walter A. Plecker and a lot of other folks were involved in eugenics and > policies which made folks who were not considered 'white' unable to vote, > unable to own land, unable to marry anyone who was considered 'white,' and > kept folks from schooling their children. And yes you are right that the > Melungeons were treated any worse than any other people of color were, but > they were not considered FREE WHITE men and did not have the rights of such. > Don't believe me, do your own research. > NancyS >

Roger Napier http:/www.angelfire.com/tn2/rdnapier ----- Original Message ----- From: "roger napier" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Walter A.Plecker > Well Well!!!! I may get a fight going here and I hope that the list does > not take me wrong. in my comments but here goes. We the Americans who came > from across the great pond, came into a strange land, a land that was owned > by know one but the Great Almighty and the Native American's. So what did > the Americans do they took the land and called it their Land. Now today it > has not changed. If you own a piece of land and the Gov. wants it they will > take it from you. So in my opinion know one owns any land except the Gov. > that has robbed from the true land owners the Native Americans. > Roger Napier > > http:/www.angelfire.com/tn2/rdnapier >

Nancy S, Good post! My only concern in my previous comment on Plecker was to not let the Nazis off the hook. The threat of Plecker being tried at Nuremburg is very interesting. Rick

<< prevented people of any race from owning land in Virginia.. ALL FREE MEN IN VIRGINIA could own land from the beginning of the Colonies..>> I did not say ANY race, I said Melungeon and I thought I included Native Americans and mulatoes etc. And up until abt 1662, I believe that any MAN not a slave could own land, but after that laws began to change and things got worse. Walter A. Plecker and a lot of other folks were involved in eugenics and policies which made folks who were not considered 'white' unable to vote, unable to own land, unable to marry anyone who was considered 'white,' and kept folks from schooling their children. And yes you are right that the Melungeons were treated any worse than any other people of color were, but they were not considered FREE WHITE men and did not have the rights of such. Don't believe me, do your own research. NancyS THE MELUNGEON HEALTH EDUCATION AND SUPPORT NETWORK: http://www.melungeonhealth.org SPARKS Genealogy: http://SparksGenealogy.net

The following email addresses have been found to be bad. If you know anything about them, let me know...will be deleting all bad addresses from the SW VA Surname Database by Monday. [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Fred Preston page at http://members.fortunecity.com/fpreston/swabc.htm Fred Preston HOME PAGES AT: http://people.txucom.net/fpreston http://people.goplay.com/fpreston http://members.fortunecity.com/fpreston main links to genealogy at http://people.txucom.net/fpreston/prestong.htm or no frames at prestonf.htm SWVA SURNAME DATABASE at http://members.fortunecity.com/fpreston/swabc.htm PRESTON, RHEA, BREDEN, DYSART, TINSLEY, BARBER, HAYS, GAINES, MCILWAINE, ANDERSON, SCOTT, FAIRMAN, BRYAN, THOMSON, GARLAND, RAGLAN, SPINDLE, GARLICK, HERNDON, FLEMING, STUART, JOHN, ROBINSON, LEIGH, WHITTAKER, HELTZEL, BOWSER, MORROW. Wife - AUMACK, LAWLESS AND MOODY.

Thank You. "G. Lee Hearl" wrote: > > I beg to disagree with the statement that Walter Plecker prevented people of > any race from owning land in Virginia.. ALL FREE MEN IN VIRGINIA could own > land from the beginning of the Colonies.. > That doesn't make them Indians or Melungeons or anything else that they > weren't before! > G. Lee Hearl > Authentic Appalachian Storyteller > Abingdon, Virginia

I beg to disagree with the statement that Walter Plecker prevented people of any race from owning land in Virginia.. ALL FREE MEN IN VIRGINIA could own land from the beginning of the Colonies.. Freed slaves were given land in many cases after the Civil War.. Melungeons were not treated any different than other minorities.. There is no need to try to make something out of Nothing.. Many white men married Indians and the darkskinned people of southwest Va.. That doesn't make them Indians or Melungeons or anything else that they weren't before! G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Virginia

No, Plecker was not around in 1857, but the laws that he began espousing in the early 1900s were already in place. Sorry, I did not mean to muddy the waters. Here is some information on racial purity and American policy. Laws forbidding marriage between people of different races were common in America from the Colonial period through the middle of the 20th century. In the very early days of Colonial America there was not much thought of races, only survival. By around 1662, racial laws began to appear. Then by the late 1700s, early 1800s laws and ideas began to enlarge upon those already in place. By 1915, twenty-eight states made marriages between "Negroes and white persons" invalid; six states included this prohibition in their constitutions. These laws also forbid other things for 'negroes,' including owning property, voting, schooling their children with 'white' children as schooling became available. Virginia's Racial Integrity Act of 1924 stands out among anti-miscegenation laws that can be traced to eugenic advocacy. We do have to remember that this was a sign of the times, but these eugenic ideas are a shame and a disgrace to America and particularly to Virginia. To fashion a successful legislative strategy, three local Virginia eugenicists – John Powell, Earnest Cox and Walter Plecker – consulted with Madison Grant and Harry Laughlin. Powell, a celebrated pianist and composer, was the founder of the Anglo-Saxon Clubs of America, an elitist version of the Ku Klux Klan dedicated to maintaining "Anglo-Saxon ideals and civilization in America." Like The Passing of the Great Race, Cox's book White America emphasized white supremacy and the dangers of racial mixing. Plecker was registrar at the Bureau of Vital Statistics of the Virginia Board of Health. His ideas on racial interbreeding as the source of "public health" problems appeared in state-published pamphlets distributed to all who planned to marry. These phamphlets are available to be read today via the state archives of Virginia. They make your skin crawl. When The Racial Integrity Act became law, it included provisions requiring racial registration certificates and strict definitions of who would qualify as members of the white race. It emphasized the "scientific" basis of race assessment, and the "dysgenic" dangers of race mixing. Its major provision declared: "It shall hereafter be unlawful for any white person in this State to marry any save a white person, or a person with no other admixture of blood than white and American Indian. …the term "white person" shall apply only to such person as has no trace whatever of any blood other than Caucasian; but persons who have one-sixteenth or less of the blood of the American Indian and have no other non-Caucasic blood shall be deemed to be white persons…." It is interesting to note that at least 16 members of the Virginia General Assembly who claimed to be descendants of Pocahontas objected to the first draft of the law they proposed, because it defined as "non-white" anyone with 1/64 of American Indian ancestry. Alabama and Georgia eventually copied the Virginia law. Within a decade, similar laws prohibiting inter-ethnic marriages and attempting to sort citizens by percentage of Jewish "blood" were adopted by the government of Nazi Germany. Walter Ashby Plecker was unassuming in appearance: a small-town doctor whose penchant for number-crunching earned him the position of registrar in Virginias Bureau of Vital Statistics in 1912. But appearances were indeed deceiving. With Plecker at the helm, the bureau went on an all-out war against "amalgamation". Plecker was not the author of the Racial Integrity Law of 1924--Virginia's infamous "one drop" statute, which created two racial categories, "pure" white and everybody else. But he--and allies such as John Powell of the Anglo-Saxon Clubs of America--pushed hard to enforce the act's provision for "ancestral registration". Virginians shied away from compliance in that area, according to J. David Smith in The Eugenic Assault on America: Scenes in Red, White, and Black. Indeed, "passing" might have been commonplace among whiter-skinned African- Americans since at least 1662, when the first anti-miscegenation laws were passed in Virginia, but even for allegedly "pure" whites, proof of racial purity might have been difficult to obtain. But Plecker's power to grant birth, death, and marriage certificates gave him unprecedented and awesome powers over Virginians who had less clout than the Pocahontas contingent. With the stroke of a pen, Plecker could write an individual into "Negro" status--and legal and social oblivion. Plecker was only too willing to exercise that power, thus making him a figure of dread to Indians in general, but particularly to the Powhatan remnants in Rockbridge and Amherst counties, until his retirement and subsequent death in 1946. He was forced to retire after WWII because it was thought that he might be tried at Nuremberg. Some time later, crossing Monument Avenue in Richmond, VA where he lived, Plecker was run over by a truck and killed. According to Helen Rountree, a Old Dominion University professor who has written extensively on Virginia's Powhatan tribes, Plecker believed that all Indians had "polluted" their blood by mingling it with free African-Americans--or "free issues", in the local vernacular. Plecker thus saw those who claimed Indian ancestry as opportunists seeking what Rountree called a "way station to whiteness"-- in other words, he saw all Indians as blacks attempting to "pass." Plecker intimidated mid-wives, wrote threatening pamphlets, editorialized in newspapers, and trained an entire generation of county clerks and health service workers in his methods. When all else failed, he simply changed records to suit his prejudices, striking out the designation "Indian" and replacing it with "Negro" or "colored" or "mulatto"--or writing notations on the back. Hope this is helpful. NancyS THE MELUNGEON HEALTH EDUCATION AND SUPPORT NETWORK: http://www.melungeonhealth.org SPARKS Genealogy: http://SparksGenealogy.net

Melungeons were not ALLOWED to own land in Wise Co., VA because of the mechinations of Walter A. Plecker, Virginia's first director of Vital Statistics. Of course Adams may be a Scots/Irish name, but it is also a COMMON Melungeon surname and Wise Co., VA is the headquarters in VA for Melungeon settlements. However, I took a look at the land list that you mentioned and 3/4 of the names on the list of common to Melungeons :-) Somehow or other, they must have gotten themselves marked as 'white' on the census list of the time. <grin> None of my Melungeon COLLINS family were on the list however. NancyS THE MELUNGEON HEALTH EDUCATION AND SUPPORT NETWORK: http://www.melungeonhealth.org SPARKS Genealogy: http://SparksGenealogy.net

NancyS Just how long was this Walter Plecker around? You mentioned that he advised Hitler on racial matters, but I am talking about an 1857 Tax List. How did he define a Melungeon for the purpose of telling them that they could not own land? Phil [email protected] wrote: > > Melungeons were not ALLOWED to own land in Wise Co., VA because of the > mechinations of Walter A. Plecker, Virginia's first director of Vital > Statistics. Of course Adams may be a Scots/Irish name, but it is also a > COMMON Melungeon surname and Wise Co., VA is the headquarters in VA for > Melungeon settlements. >

Adams is more likely a Scots/Scots-Irish name. But that may be several generations back. The name Adams does not appear on the 1857 Wise County, Virginia Land Tax List. [http://www.ls.net/~newriver/va/wise1857.htm] This may mean that they did not own taxable property or that they had not moved into the County yet. Are there any unique first names that might give a clue? Unfortunately, John Adams and, to a lesser extent, Mary Garner, are fairly common names. Phil

Hi Guys! Adams is a common Melungeon surname and Wise,VA is a center of Melungeon life. I have sent Lisa the information that I have on the Melungeons. I will be glad to send information on these fascinating folks FREE and via e-mail to anyone who would like it. Just e-mail me directly please. NancyS THE MELUNGEON HEALTH EDUCATION AND SUPPORT NETWORK: http://www.melungeonhealth.org SPARKS Genealogy: http://SparksGenealogy.net

Hi folks, I wanted to let you know about a free service that I have discovered. It's called "Change Detection". If you are like me, there are lots of pages that you visit on a regular basis looking for changes in the site. The URL below will take you to a page where you can enter the URL for any page you want to monitor for changes, then enter your email address, then hit Finish. When that pages changes they will send you an email to let you know. Very nifty! http://www.changedetection.com/detect.html?url=++ Although I have added this feature to several of my pages, I am not affiliated with them. Just wanted to pass this along to folks who would find it useful! pat

Hi, I am new to the list and I am researching my husbands family. In the 1860 census index they have John ADAMS living in Wise County, found on page 318 of the original. I have just moved from Virginia to Texas so Virginia information is hard to come by. I know he was married to a Mary GARNER although I am not sure when they were married. They had 3 children, Palmer, Charlie and a female child who's name I do not know. Rumor has it that John and Mary died possibly in a train wreck. The children then were taken in by different families. I would love to trade family info if this sounds like your line also, email me at [email protected] ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Volks, I lost the address of my new List assistant. Would you please write me. Thanks. -eddie

The list of bad email addresses continues to grow, approximately 60 so far. Latest are as follows: PLEASE LOOK IT OVER AND IF YOU SEE YOURS OR SOMEONE YOU KNOW PLEASE CONTACT ME. A major problem is ONE and L 1l can easily be mistaken. I almost deleted [email protected] the l as L is no good. Tried ONE and it seems to be ok, so far. Sometimes the Mailer Demon takes a week to give up, others it responds in a minute or less. All surnames with the listed email addresses will be deleted by this at least Tuesday, maybe before. [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]