Barb, I am going to guess about the question to me... Somewhere in this Coles' family there may be found a person named Gilenwater... Remember, that's just a Guess! G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Va..

I have two questions, one for Theresa and one for Lee. First, Theresa, I notice that you have the name Herron listed as one of your surnames. I only have 2 Herrons, but it is my cousins line. Minnie Cordelia Herron b 1884 married David Wesley Ferdinand Cole b 1883. Her father was Thomas Herron and Nannie Woods. Would these people be in your line. Barb Lee, I have a John Linder Gillenwater Cole in my tree. He was the son of Charles Cole. I always wondered if the Gillenwater was from a family friend. Could there be a connection here. Barb -- Main lines COLE, WARREN & ROBERTS Other names Carrico, Stoneman, Haga, Parks and more http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=barbnor http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/n/o/r/Barbara-E-Norvell/index.html

On 21 Sep 2000, at 10:38, A. Daniels: It is not easy to recognize them as German. It takes a lot of experience in research. It was not the Germans that changed their spelling. The English/Scot Irish clerks at the courthouse did the writing. Many could not write or sign their name. The clerk doing the writing did the spelling. That was true the second they got on the English ship or stepped off the ship in Philly, PA. Frost does not look very German to me, but it is. Smith and Black do not either, but they can be and in SW VA most likely are. Driving around here in Raleigh it is interesting in the names one does NOT see. If your family is German and lived early in SW VA there is a 90% chance they came from PA thru MD and down, or up, the Great Valley of VA . The valley in SW VA they choose to live in is a clue. The Germans lived in valleys that looked much like the PA, MD and valleys of the Rhineland. In the first generation they married nearly exclusively other Germans. This suggest to me that there were language limitations. Of course what I say here is general statements. The German influence in SW VA is greatly underestimated. The food, culture, and religion of SW VA has a strong German flavor. -eddie How do you tell whether your families are German and what part they might have come from? I have Bise and Burkett/Burger that I suspect are German but is there a way to tell from the surname where they came from? Also what would Pritchett be? I don't know if I'll ever get out of the south. I also think my Wilsons came from Maryland. Is there some way to find out what county to start searching for them in. I'm not sure if they were English or Scots-Irish. Are there clues I'm not seeing? What about the surname Todd and Bishop? At 09:33 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >Those pesky Germans! :) They 'leap-frogged' up (to the southwest) the Valley >of Virginia from Pennsylvania, into Tennessee even, with the "Scots Irish". >You'll find settlements and smaller pockets (Widener Valley in Washington >County) of them all over. My Swiss German ancestors (Surbers) were a smaller >subset of the Germans. In the early days, the Swiss Germans tended to marry >exclusively other Swiss Germans, whether those Swiss German families had >been in the Palatinate for a couple of generations (my associated Haller >line) or even in Alsace or Bayern, etc. or not. > >Also, having Elsassische (Alsatian) ancestry can complicate things! My >Strosser ancestors were officially Frenchmen, but they were as German as >could be and asociated only with other Texas Germans. > >Rick > > >==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== >#4 Chain letters, gossip, non-genealogical notes, commercial ads, pleas for help, etc. are >PROHIBITED on this List. -sysop > >============================== >RootsWeb's guide to tracing family trees: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/ > > ==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== #3 Support the fight against unrequested junk e-mail (SPAM). Visit the webpage at: http://www.cauce.org/ -sysop ============================== Know the town name but not the county? Look it up at: http://resources.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/townco.cgi

One thing to look out for in trying to determine your family's origin: many times people from areas that make up the British Crown are referred to as "English," when in actuality they could be Scots/Irish, Scot, Irish, Welch or......English. So just because you find they arrived from a port in England, or because they are referred to as English, they could still be another people from a country that is under the English Crown. Sharon Young Jebavy <>< [email protected] Those that preserve their integrity remain unshaken by the storms of daily life. they do not stir like leaves on a tree or follow the herd where it runs. In their mind remains the ideal attitude and conduct of living. This is not something given to them by others. It is their roots...it is a strength that exists deep within them. -Anonymous Proud member: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Lawrence Co. Web Site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~churn/index.html KY Young Research Site: http://www.geocities.com/charryoung/index.html KY Young Mailing List: [email protected]

It can be very hard to determine whether your ancestors are German. For example, Bowman might have started out as Baumann. Or Smith might have been Schmidt. My German ancestors tended to have fully adopted English-like names by the second generation (i.e. the son of the immigrant father) and tended to marry only within their group for three generations, at most. There are exceptions, of course. For example, religious groups (e.g., the Dunkers) would have tended to stay together longer. Or there might have been German towns which were founded by a group of Germans (like we have in Kansas). However, it seems that SWVA was largely settled by people who were of an adventurous nature and did not seem to show any inclination to be tied to a group, other than their immediate family. My Chrisman (formerly Christmann) ancestors and my wife's Harman (formerly Hermann) ancestors seemed to mingle freely, and eventually intermarried with, our Scots-Irish ancestors. One of Daniel Boone's companions, Michael Stoner (formerly Holsteiner), was the son of an immigrant and spoke with a heavy German accent. So, determining which of your ancestors were German can prove to be a real challenge, particularly in SWVA. Phil "A. Daniels" wrote: > > How do you tell whether your families are German and what part they might > have come from? I have Bise and Burkett/Burger that I suspect are German > but is there a way to tell from the surname where they came from? Also > what would Pritchett be? I don't know if I'll ever get out of the south. > I also think my Wilsons came from Maryland. Is there some way to find out > what county to start searching for them in. I'm not sure if they were > English or Scots-Irish. Are there clues I'm not seeing? What about the > surname Todd and Bishop? >

How do you tell whether your families are German and what part they might have come from? I have Bise and Burkett/Burger that I suspect are German but is there a way to tell from the surname where they came from? Also what would Pritchett be? I don't know if I'll ever get out of the south. I also think my Wilsons came from Maryland. Is there some way to find out what county to start searching for them in. I'm not sure if they were English or Scots-Irish. Are there clues I'm not seeing? What about the surname Todd and Bishop? At 09:33 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >Those pesky Germans! :) They 'leap-frogged' up (to the southwest) the Valley >of Virginia from Pennsylvania, into Tennessee even, with the "Scots Irish". >You'll find settlements and smaller pockets (Widener Valley in Washington >County) of them all over. My Swiss German ancestors (Surbers) were a smaller >subset of the Germans. In the early days, the Swiss Germans tended to marry >exclusively other Swiss Germans, whether those Swiss German families had >been in the Palatinate for a couple of generations (my associated Haller >line) or even in Alsace or Bayern, etc. or not. > >Also, having Elsassische (Alsatian) ancestry can complicate things! My >Strosser ancestors were officially Frenchmen, but they were as German as >could be and asociated only with other Texas Germans. > >Rick > > >==== SW_VA Mailing List ==== >#4 Chain letters, gossip, non-genealogical notes, commercial ads, pleas for help, etc. are >PROHIBITED on this List. -sysop > >============================== >RootsWeb's guide to tracing family trees: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/ > >

Those pesky Germans! :) They 'leap-frogged' up (to the southwest) the Valley of Virginia from Pennsylvania, into Tennessee even, with the "Scots Irish". You'll find settlements and smaller pockets (Widener Valley in Washington County) of them all over. My Swiss German ancestors (Surbers) were a smaller subset of the Germans. In the early days, the Swiss Germans tended to marry exclusively other Swiss Germans, whether those Swiss German families had been in the Palatinate for a couple of generations (my associated Haller line) or even in Alsace or Bayern, etc. or not. Also, having Elsassische (Alsatian) ancestry can complicate things! My Strosser ancestors were officially Frenchmen, but they were as German as could be and asociated only with other Texas Germans. Rick

I believe that the GERLACHs (CARLOCKs) came over in the early 1700s into the Mohawk Valley of New York. they were in Smyth County by the Revolution. Hans Christian Gerlach (John Christian Carlock) served in the War. His son Abraham Carlock and others went west to TN and then IL. Another Carlock was connected with one of the Bristol colleges. I have The HISTORY OF THE CARLOCK FAMILY and would like to correspond with any Carlocks still around in SWVA. Alice

It was 1981 when I was in Milwaukee, WI, for my son's wedding. My new daughter-in-law's grandmother had immigrated from Germany back about 1929. I was quite surprised to learn that she still spoke German and I had a hard time understanding her broken English. She lived in a community of many German families where they continued to speak their native language. A little story about this lady---She had saved her money and came to America by ship, landing at Ellis Island. She couldn't speak any English. Arriving on a Saturday, she began working as a maid the following Monday morning in a well-to-do home. I can't imagine what the change must have been like for her as a young girl.

On 20 Sep 2000, at 20:30, John Hamilton: Eddie wrote > Why would they live and marry > among Germans who speak German? > > <>Does anyone know when the German communities (of Washington Co.) stopped speaking German as the primary language?<> There were church services being conducted in German on the North Fork in Wash. Co. up until WW I . -eddie

All my life I was certain that I was mostly of British descent. (Collins and Crabtree) Just a short time after getting into genealogy I find that I am about three quarters German. (Sheffey, Groseclose, Fisher and Loehr) And they all migrated by way of Frederick Maryland and along the great Wagon Road on into Wythe, Washington and Smyth Counties. These Germans gave up their native tongue and ways early on and changed the spelling of their names to be better understood by the local population. And they freely married outside the German influence. I am not saying this was typical but I do believe that all our ancestors (those of the white population) tried hard to fit into the melting pot and their heritage was seldom an issue. Robert Crabtree

>>Does anyone know when the German communities (of Washington Co.) stopped speaking German as the primary language? I was assuming that most of the Germans in Washington CO came from the German area of Penn. (Lancaster area) and not directly from Germany, This would have made it more likely that they would have started to assimilate into the English culture fairly early.<< To my knowledge, there were no German settlements in Washington co., Va. such as were located in Penn. and NC.. The North Fork of Holston River area became home to a few Germans down near Mendota. Fleenors settled early in that area.. The Pippins did not settle along the North Fork at the beginning but came from Maryland to Russell co. about 1800 and some of them moved from Russell to Nordyke and Smith Creek along the NF River.. There were people named Scott, Roberts, Mongle and others who were early settlers along the river... Most of the early settlers in Washington (Fincastle) co. moved down from Augusta, Frederick and other counties of Va., Md. and Penn..... G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Va..

There are several of us chatting now. Please come join us! Not just for Russell Co but for the surrounding areas. http://www.rootsweb.com/~varussel/chat.html

My grandfather spoke German as a boy in Hawkins Co. He was a Jeter and his parents and grandparents were native speaking Germans. I am not sure where and when they came to this area. I have found them as far back as 1850 census. Yet grandpa could still give me a scolding in German in 1950s. My grandfather Snapp who's roots are from Alsace spoke no German. The family came in 1733 on the ship Samuel with the name spelled Schnepp. It was quickly changed while still living in PA by the time the family had moved to Sullivan Co. around 1803 they had changed religion and the naming pattern was not followed staunchly and no one indicates in the family histories that German was the language used on a daily bases by this time. Yet the neighbors were still some of the same families they had arrived on the ship Samuel together, only young generations. So they did seem to live together whether by accident of marriage, migration or culture. Teresa [email protected] Hughes, Clark, Capwell, Bennick, Schaub PA/FL Anderson, Horton, Herron Jeter, Snapp, VA/TN/FL

Eddie wrote > Why would they live and marry > among Germans who speak German? > > Does anyone know when the German communities (of Washington Co.) stopped speaking German as the primary language? I was assuming that most of the Germans in Washington CO came from the German area of Penn. (Lancaster area) and not directly from Germany, This would have made it more likely that they would have started to assimilate into the English culture fairly early. John

>>Those Gillenwater bother me as you know. What looks like a pure English name may be French. Why would they live and marry among Germans who speak German? And the Pippins too. Could the Gillenwater be French-named German speaking people from west of the Rhine? -eddie<< Eddie, Are you speaking of the Germans who had settled in southwest Virginia, or very early settlers in Maryland, Northern Va., Pa. etc. Or, Pippins, Gillenwaters in Europe before coming to America? I'm a bit confused too... G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Va..

Those Gillenwater bother me as you know. What looks like a pure English name may be French. Why would they live and marry among Germans who speak German? And the Pippins too. Could the Gillenwater be French-named German speaking people from west of the Rhine? -eddie

Virginia Researchers: Please join us today for these genealogy chats: Sunday Chats: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm (Subtract 1 hr. for Central time; 2 hrs. for Mt., 3 hrs. for Pacific time) ALL DAY--Genealogy "Open House"--all states; any surname 5-7 pm Eastern--BERRYHILL surname chat (all states) 7 pm Eastern--All Surnames starting with A-J (any state) 8 pm Eastern--All Surnames starting K-Z (any state) 9 pm Eastern--WISCONSIN genealogy 10 pm Eastern--VIRGINIA genealogy 11 pm Eastern--WEST VIRGINIA genealogy (new!) If you miss the chat, be sure and stop by the forum and post your surname queries and research questions--over 560 messages there! http://forums.about.com/ab-huntsville You can also view transcripts of the chats at: http://huntsville.about.com/blrecords.htm If you need instructions for the chat room or forum or would like a full chat schedule, just let me know. Jean Brandau [email protected]

In case anyone is interested, AncientFaces ( http://www.ancientfaces.com ) has just added a "mystery photos" section. You can submit those pictures of kin that have remained unidentified in your family for years-and maybe someone will recognize them and email you! Pretty cool. I'm adding several! Pam Marks

Hi folks, me again. In case I didn't announce it to this list, I have finished transcribing the 1850 Scott Co. VA federal census and have put the entire thing up on my website: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~drakefam/census/ All of the actual census pages are in PDF format, so you need to have Acrobat Reader 3.0 or better on your computer to view them, there is a link on the main page to the download site for the free Reader software. I have indexed every name in the census and the index is up on the site also, either in html format or you can download the whole index in a PDF file. Good luck! pat