Thank you Marion for your advice. We do have the Will for William Palmer who married Thomasin who died in 1601 at Stoughton. The hope is to get back prior to that date. Many years ago Debrett's and the College of Arms did some work for us. A number of family members put into the kitty for this it is far too expensive for a singular person. The College did suggest looking at manorial rolls but the cost was prohibitive is there any other way I can access them? I have recently discovered that a Peregrine Palmer of Fairfield in Somerset held land at Stoughton and Upper Marden. This man came from both the Palmers of Angmering and of Parham. As these families use the same coat of arms that our John Palmer used we naturally wonder if there is a connection. We have not ascertained through the College John's right to do so as for our initial payment was used investigating what we already knew and then the same large amount requested to continue it was beyond our means. Thank you again. Lefayre.

On 20 Sep at 4:52, "Lefayre" <lefayrep@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Thank you Marion for your advice. > > > > We do have the Will for William Palmer who married Thomasin who died > in 1601 at Stoughton. The hope is to get back prior to that date. > > > > Many years ago Debrett's and the College of Arms did some work for us. > A number of family members put into the kitty for this it is far too > expensive for a singular person. > > The College did suggest looking at manorial rolls but the cost was > prohibitive is there any other way I can access them? Family Search has scanned a few manor rolls so they might have got round to some sort of transcription and you might be lucky with your manor. > I have recently discovered that a Peregrine Palmer of Fairfield in > Somerset held land at Stoughton and Upper Marden. This man came from > both the Palmers of Angmering and of Parham. As these families use the > same coat of arms that our John Palmer used we naturally wonder if > there is a connection. We have not ascertained through the College > John's right to do so as for our initial payment was used > investigating what we already knew and then the same large amount > requested to continue it was beyond our means. By and large, as some cousins of mine discovered, many of the duplicate arms were at the hands of jewellers or ceramicists eager to sell their wares. In order to establish a right to bear arms under the College's rules, you need to establish they had a common male line ancestor who was armigerous. So you are back to old fashioned genealogy. If the manor roll is in a County Record Office, the archivists there may put you in touch with a local person who can do some work for you at much lower prices. The college is horrendously expensive as these chaps get no other pay for being a herald (bar £20 or so a year, last reviewed downswards in the time of William IV). The only thing that is worth your while paying a herald for is either to get some arms made for you (horrendously expensive) or to tell you what is written on an old document of which they have the only copy. I presume you have looked at the Sussex heraldic Visitations? There are quite a few Palmers in them. Though the 1530 visitation does have, for a totally different family, some absolute rubbish! -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

I have sent a reply direct to 'Lefayre' containing attachment files that I hope that he/she will find useful. I also sent the following text: Firstly, there may be wills and administrations in the Archdeaconry & Consistory Courts of Chichester that you cannot access online. So, I am sending you two files which list these probates pre-1800. When you compare this data with your existing research, hopefully there might be something that will provide a connection. If that is the case, then you can order copies from WSRO because you will have the reference that they need to locate the entry. You will find WSRO's scale of charges at http://www.westsussex.gov.uk/leisure/record_office_and_archives/our_services /copying.aspx . Secondly, I am attaching two files from the pedigrees compiled by William Berry and published in 1830. William Berry was a clerk at the College of Arms and he published a number of "County Genealogies"; however, you do have to be very careful to double-check everything that he says as he does make mistakes. You will see that these pages show not only the pedigree for two brothers, but also a description of the Arms and so you can compare those with the description that you already have. They key to finding Manorial records, such as the Court Baron, is to identify the Manors who held the land that they occupied. This is not easy as Manors sometimes held land in many different parishes, some very distant from one another. The way that I have overcome this problem in the past is to look at various wills for the particular parish and see if there is a mention of land being surrendered to a named Manor; or to check the maps and see if there is a 'stately home' or similar in the area as those families often controlled several Manors e.g. Cowdray near Midhurst once controlled over 20 individual Manors. Then I check catalogues to see if any records for that Manor have survived. The latter will be much easier once the National Register of Archives is available online, but meanwhile the WSRO SearchOnline catalogue, Archives Hub or A2A are often helpful. By the way, apart from the Commonwealth period, all Manorial records were written in Latin pre-1733 and that presents an entirely different problem. In essence, you are doing a very specialised piece of research and you are probably going to need someone quite experienced to locate the documents that you need to search and then to tease the relevant information out of the Latin text. WSRO does provide a research service and it might be useful to send them an E-mail to describe exactly what you are looking for and ask them for an estimate of cost to search the Manorial records for you. E-mail to records.office@westsussex.gov.uk . It is entirely possible that someone else has researched your particular problem in the past and has deposited their papers at WSRO. Also, Parham House is a well-known 'stately home' with a wide influence in the community and I know that there have been several very large deposits of documents from Parham to WSRO, because I have seen them. There is also a catalogue of Parham material on the open shelves at WSRO, although I am not sure how complete it is. So, if there is a connection between your own Palmer family and the Parham family, it may well be found in these records. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

On 20/09/2013 09:43, Marion Woolgar wrote: > I have sent a reply direct to 'Lefayre' containing attachment files that I > hope that he/she will find useful. I also sent the following text: Thank you for sending the text. So many people post up to say "replied offlist" leaving the rest of us wondering what was contained in the reply and if it might have been of interest or help. I know attachments can't be sent to the list though. -- Connie http://oursalmons.wordpress.com/