Greetings Listers I think I asked this question some years ago, but have recently changed computers and am now using Windows 7 which I don't yet understand regarding searching the database! One of my ancestors - Robert PERIGOE - is listed in the Assize Rolls of Kent in 1585 as follows (the entry seems a bit truncated): ASSIZE ROLLS (Kent) Elizabeth I, no. 1363 (p. 228). Robert Perygoe of Sevenoaks, smith - theft on 1 Feb 1585 found guilty, but allowed benefit of the clergy. I'm in the process of writing his story - it won't be very long, just a page or so - and want to get details correct. Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. Many thanks. Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australai.

On 20/10/2013 08:14, PMR wrote: > Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. Courtesy of Google: "In English law, the benefit of clergy (Law Latin Privilegium clericale) was originally a provision by which clergymen could claim that they were outside the jurisdiction of the secular courts and be tried instead in an ecclesiastical court under canon law. Eventually, the course of history transformed it into a mechanism by which first-time offenders could receive a more lenient sentence for some lesser crimes (the so-called "clergyable" ones)." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_of_clergy) These are some other references: http://thelawdictionary.org/benefit-of-clergy/ http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/benefit%20of%20clergy http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/121291/benefit-of-clergy http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Benefit+of+clergy There are a number of other references Benefit of Clergy was abolished in 1841 after some 400 years. Without Benefit of Clergy meant a couple living together without being married. I've taken out the SFHG address because I don't below to that list -- Connie http://oursalmons.wordpress.com/

I do not seem to be able to find the original message with the question. So, what was the year the benefit was claimed by Robert and what does "here" mean in the original post? >From school A level history I remember that there was quite a lot of abuse in that clerics and those who claimed "benefit of clergy" could literally "get away with murder" and lesser crimes too. (I wonder if that was actually the origin of that saying?) That is why it was tackled in law several times Here is the Wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_of_clergy Note that at various times 1. anyone who could read 2. first time offenders It is only short but VERY complicated. I suggest you read the entire wiki entry. It is very interesting, but I am not sure I understand the later grounds for claim! Jean Wood http://www.cheziris.eu/index.htm http://www.cheziris.eu/Duterrau.htm http://www.saintes-fleur-de-sel.fr/index.htm > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:26:09 +0100 > From: connie.sparrer@gmail.com > To: cliveden@iinet.net.au; SUSSEX-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SXP] Benefit of the Clergy > > On 20/10/2013 08:14, PMR wrote: >> Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. > > > Courtesy of Google: > > "In English law, the benefit of clergy (Law Latin Privilegium clericale) was > originally a provision by which clergymen could claim that they were outside the > jurisdiction of the secular courts and be tried instead in an ecclesiastical > court under canon law. Eventually, the course of history transformed it into a > mechanism by which first-time offenders could receive a more lenient sentence > for some lesser crimes (the so-called "clergyable" ones)." > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_of_clergy) > > These are some other references: > > http://thelawdictionary.org/benefit-of-clergy/ > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/benefit%20of%20clergy > http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/121291/benefit-of-clergy > http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Benefit+of+clergy > > There are a number of other references > > Benefit of Clergy was abolished in 1841 after some 400 years. Without Benefit > of Clergy meant a couple living together without being married. > > I've taken out the SFHG address because I don't below to that list > > -- > Connie > http://oursalmons.wordpress.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

PMR - According to the Dictionary of Genealogy - The Benefit of Clergy - "A product of the conflict between the claims of Common and Canon Law. As a compromise, the Common Law courts abandoned the death penalty for some less serous capital crimes when the person convicted was a clericus (clerk), and a secondary punishment was inflicted. As a result, offences came to be classes as 'clergyable' and 'unclergyable'. The term 'clerk' had always included a large number of people in minor orders, but in 1305 it was extended to apply to secular clerks able to read and understand Latin. The test test was the first verse of the 50th Psalm in the Vulgate (the Latin version of the Bible), popularly known as the 'Neck Verse'. In English, it reads, 'Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness; according unto the multitude of they tender mercies, blot out my transgressions'. This requirement degenerated into the ability to read the same verse - which in the Authorised Version became the first verse of the 51st Psalm - in English. If a convicted prisoner on a capital charge read this successfully, he was merely branded on his thumb. The device had become a legal fiction to modify the severity of the English criminal law for first offenders. Even the test was abandoned in 1705, but it was not until 1827 that Benefit of Clergy itself was abolished. So, maybe Robert could read .... Lynne in Tucson -----Original Message----- From: PMR Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:14 AM To: SSX-PLUS Mailing List ; SFHG Mailing List Subject: [SXP] Benefit of the Clergy Greetings Listers I think I asked this question some years ago, but have recently changed computers and am now using Windows 7 which I don't yet understand regarding searching the database! One of my ancestors - Robert PERIGOE - is listed in the Assize Rolls of Kent in 1585 as follows (the entry seems a bit truncated): ASSIZE ROLLS (Kent) Elizabeth I, no. 1363 (p. 228). Robert Perygoe of Sevenoaks, smith - theft on 1 Feb 1585 found guilty, but allowed benefit of the clergy. I'm in the process of writing his story - it won't be very long, just a page or so - and want to get details correct. Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. Many thanks. Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australai. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message