Marion, Thanks for your clarification. It's interesting that the 1812 standardised parish registers had a column for age at death, but you suggest it was rarely completed. Then, when we move to civil registrations in 1837 it's left off, and only re-appears about 1865. peter

Thanks Marion and although not a member of SFHG, I have purchased credits from at their 'Data Archive.' From what I can see on the website, Kingston burials are indexed but not the MIs. (Although I have seen many ages at burial listed in PRs from 1798 onwards, sometimes one can get lucky and come across a pro-active incumbent who added extra details from 1780 onwards - unsure about Sussex though as my research has mostly been in the north of England. . . . . ) Thanks again, Linda On 4/07/2013 5:06 PM, Marion Woolgar wrote: > A standard form of parish burial register was introduced in England and > Wales in 1813 and that contained a column for the age at death. Before > that, you do very occasionally find a vicar who would enter the age, but > more often not. > > I do not know whether the memorial inscriptions at Kingston-by-Lewes have > been collected. However, if you are a SFHG member, a search of their > Tombstones& Burials Index can be made. Go to > http://sfhg.org.uk/tombstones.html for further details. > > Best wishes, > > Marion Woolgar > Bognor Regis, West Sussex > >

Maureen, I think you should start a new thread and it probably should be in Huntingdonshire. You should also make the case for how you get back to Thomas Goodwin. Are you sure you have the right one? You've found the marriage certificate for a Thomas Goodwin to Elizabeth Farrer on 11/11/1849 at St Pancras. Is it truly him? Both are of full age. His father is given as Oates Cliff GOODWIN, carpenter and her father is David FARRER. The witnesses are David Farrer and Mary Goodwin. Are these siblings or possibly parents? In 1851, Thomas and Elizabeth are living in London with a son Thomas. Thomas gives his birthplace as Notts, but we can't find them in any later census. If you describe your connection from Thomas, it might give some clues. Do you descend from their son, or were there other children? I can find no evidence of the father with the unique name of Oates Cliff Goodwin in any census although there is a 1876 death in Thrapston, Hunts that suggests he was born c1797 and should be in 1841, 1851,1861 and 1871. Without knowing an approximate age for Mary Goodwin, it's very hard to find her in census records. I assumed she was a sister and looked for births in Huntingdonshire c1825. But did she stay in London or go back home. By 1851 she may have been married. Family Search have some records and submitted trees for Oates Cliff Goodwin, but they suggest a 1787 birth and a death two years later to parents Richard Goodwin and Susannah Cliff. Did they name a second son after the first who died? And how accurate are the submitted entries? As I've already said, it requires a lot of work. Peter

Think I missed one off In 1871 in Aldwinkle Northants Oats C GOODWIN 75 Carpenter Hunts Elton Kate GOODWIN wife 65 Norths Titchmarsh Mary S GOODWIN gdau dressmaker Norths Aldwinkle Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 04/07/2013 15:12, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Maureen > > From the limited information you have posted so far > > Thomas GOODWIN did marry in 1849 to Elizabeth FARRER his father was > Oates Cliff GOODWIN also a Carpenter like Thomas > > In 1861 > Oatscliff GOODWIN age 65 Carpenter born (looks like) Norths Ellton > (but is perhaps Elton Northamptonshire) > Phebe GOODWIN wife age 55 Norths Titchmarsh > Mary Sophia GOODWIN granddaughter age 9 Aldwinkle All Saints

Hi Maureen From the limited information you have posted so far Thomas GOODWIN did marry in 1849 to Elizabeth FARRER his father was Oates Cliff GOODWIN also a Carpenter like Thomas In 1861 Oatscliff GOODWIN age 65 Carpenter born (looks like) Norths Ellton (but is perhaps Elton Northamptonshire) Phebe GOODWIN wife age 55 Norths Titchmarsh Mary Sophia GOODWIN granddaughter age 9 Aldwinkle All Saints Are in Aldwinkle All Saints Northamptonshire However there is England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about Oates Oliffe Goodwin Name: Oates Oliffe Goodwin Gender: Male Christening Date: 19 Nov 1787 Christening Place: Elton, Huntingdonshire, England Father's Name: Richard Goodwin Mother's Name: Susannah He dies in 1876 England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Oates Cliff Goodwin Name: Oates Cliff Goodwin Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876 Age at Death: 80 Registration District: Thrapston Inferred County: Northamptonshire Volume: 3b Page: 121 From familysearch Oates Cliff Goodwin, "England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991" Name: Oates Cliff Goodwin Gender: Male Burial Date: 23 Feb 1876 Burial Place: Aldwinkle-All Saints, Northampton, England Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04518-1 System Origin: England-EASy GS Film number: 1966398 Reference ID: item 2 p39 In the 1851 transcribes as Pate C GOODWIN Widr a carpenter he is enumerated as 56 years old born Hunts Elton there is a daughter Elizabeth age 19 birthplace looks like Norths Lilford Lodge? In 1841 Thorpe Achurch Northamptonshire (transcibed as Oak GOODWIN) Oats GOODWIN 45 Carp Y (yes born in County enumerated) Sophia GOODWIN 20 Y Mary GOODWIN 15 Y Thomas GOODWIN 15 Y Elizabeth GOODWIN 9 Y Fanny GOODWIN 7 Y Susanna GOODWIN 4 Y (which would lead you to think his wife perhaps died 1837 to 1841 unless she was away elsewhere in 1841) Now you said in your post that Thomas GOODWIN was born 1821 Notts in the 1851 This just shows why its important to state the details as found and give the census page reference where known He is enumerated as *27* in 1851 born (looks like) Notts Lilfore (Lilford?) His wife Elizabeth is 25 born (looks like) Middlesex (no St Pancras is mentioned) Their son, Thomas is *5 months* (not 1 year old) born St Pancras Middlesex The address tallies with the marriage cert so its definitely them as does the baptism of Thomas Elton whilst in Huntingdonshire is very close to the border of Northamptonshire which may account for the apparent anomilies in the records Norths and Notts are often confused in the census as is Hunts, remember in most cases the enumerator was trying to decipher a very mixed bunch of handwriting, some people abbreviated, others did not, and the enumerator was trying to transcribe as fast as he could, he was only paid a fee for results in a given time Back to your original question Elizabeth gives her father as David FARRER a butcher In 1841 there is a David FARRER a labourer with wife Barbary with daughter Elizabeth age 16 David and Elizabeth born Middlesex and Barbary Not born in Middlesex Is this where you are finding the Barbara from? The one in 1871 7 1861 is born South Shields / Northumberland In 1851 at the same address Thomas & Elizabeth gave at their marriage is a David FARRER aged 60 a working chemist born Spitalfields Wife Rebecca aged 60 born Wales (South Shields is written in and crossed out) A lodger, and daughter plus a nurse child also in residence Looks to me like again the enumerator struggled to read the name and birthplaces, Rebecca is most likely Barbara and he gave his best shot at Wales for a birthplace, either never having heard of South Shields or thought it South Wales Who knows, we shall never know for sure as the household schedules are long gone Still haven't found an obvious hit for Thomas GOODWIN in 1861 or 1871 Curiously there is a Thomas GOODWIN in the 1901 census, in Oundle, he is 79 and looks to give his occupation as formerly estate carpenter, birthplace Elton Northamptonshire Where this man was between 1861 and 1891 is anyones guess they do like to lead us a merry dance do they not Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 02/07/2013 01:26, Maureen Farrer wrote: > Hi Listers, > > I am new to this list and was wondering if anyone could explain to me > the following" I have a Barbara FARRER listed in the 1871 census in > the parish of Porslade and it says "Recipient of Parish Pay" Would > there be any records and what would it tell. > > I am also looking for a Thomas GOODWIN b. 1721 in Notts. in any > census, as I have found a death for a Thomas GOODWiN in Lews in June > 1874 but not sure if he is mine ? > > thanks, Maureen in Oz.

Maureen, It's fairly simple. Just put in the Goodwin surname with Middlesex for Residence and Nottinghamshire for Birthplace. I'm wondering about the accuracy of some aspects of your data. It's very easy to accept one source without cross checks. I just had one lady who was 40 in 1841, 37 in 1851, 62 in 1861, and 65 in 1871. So you could get a different picture depending which one you took. And I can find a baptism that matches any of them. It's a bit similar with Thomas Goodwin b1821. The only possibility with a father named Oates Goodwin is in Huntingdonshire. That Oates Goodwin looks to be born c1796 and died in 1876 in Huntingdonshire, but a quick look failed to reveal him in any census. When and where did they marry? Have a look at the father's occupation on the marriage certificate. Try searching in Find My Past which allows occupations. A variant like Godwin might be a possibility. You might also look in census records for Thomas Goodwin / Godwin born in Huntingdonshire. As I said, there's many hours of work to check all the possibilities. As a part time professional researcher I usually advise it's uneconomic unless you're prepared to do it yourself. Peter

The Sussex Marriage Index records 12 KELSEY marriages in the period 1630 to 1690, some in East Sussex and some in West Sussex. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

No, the reverse is true. The Rose's Act of 1812, more properly called an " Act for the better regulating and preserving Parish and other Registers of Birth, Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, in England" required ruled registers for baptisms and burials to be introduced in 1813 and the burial registers had a column for age at death to be recorded. In my experience this column was always completed, although some of the ages were only approximate. The pre-1813 registers for baptisms and burials were completed on blank ages and it was up to the vicar to decide just how much information to include for each entry and some merely recorded the date of burial and the name of the deceased. Ruled registers for marriages were introduced in 1754 following Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

Hi Peter Thanks for your help. How do I put just Thomas GOODWIN born in Notts living in Middlesex in Ancestry alone. I do that and of course it gives me every County. I have their wedding certificate and it states his father is Oates Goodwin. There are a few of them in Notts, but no trace anywhere of wife, son or him other than in the 1851 census in Middlesex. Maureen in Oz. On 04/07/2013, at 10:05 AM, sussex-plus-request@rootsweb.com wrote: If you're not happy with the format of the Digest you can ask to be switched to MIME format by contacting the list administrator on sussex-plus-admin@rootsweb.com Today's Topics: 1. PARISH PAY (Maureen Farrer) 2. Re: PARISH PAY (Peter R Booth) 3. Kelsey Family - Steyning (Rebecca Moody) 4. Bexhill directory lookup (Dianne Young) 5. Kingston by Lewes St Pancras (Linda Price) 6. Re: Kingston by Lewes St Pancras (Peter R Booth) 7. Re: Kelsey Family - Steyning (Peter R Booth) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 20:09:56 +1000 From: Maureen Farrer <maureenfarrer71@gmail.com> Subject: [SXP] PARISH PAY To: SUSSEX-PLUS@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <C3379A21-9B15-4D68-AB07-9EA425E27EB7@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi Peter, Sorry about the mistake, it should read Thomas GOODWIn b. 1821 not 1721. In the 1851 census it shows him being born in Notts. In that census he was living with his wife Elizabeth (nee Farrer) and their one year old son Thomas. Elizabeth was born in St. Pancras in 1823 and apart from the 1851 census I can't find anything about them. Barbara was Elizabeth's mother. I found Barbara in Portslade in the 1871 census and then I have her death certificate for 1871 in Portslade and I also found a Thomas GOODWIN's death in 1874 in Lewes. Thinking outside the square I was wondering if Barbara moved from Islington (in the 1861 census) to Portslade because of her daughter and family moving there and perhaps this GOODWIN is Thomas her son-in-law ???? Commenting on Ancestry. It often happens that I can find something on their site and then months later I can't find it and also they repeat a lot of things. The Old Ancestry was so much better. Why is it that you might put in location Yorkshire and yet you have to trawl through all the other counties. Maureen in Oz. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 20:42:20 +1000 From: "Peter R Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: [SXP] PARISH PAY To: <SUSSEX-PLUS@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000601ce77d9$fec27b10$0500a8c0@family> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Maureen, I can't find them in 1861. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to check out all the options. Did one or both parents die? Did the son Thomas die? Did they migrate? Or is it a simple transcription error? Try Tho*, Eliz* or even Betty. Look for all Goodwin males in Middlesex with birth place Nottingham. There's lots of alternatives. The other option is to see if there is a marriage on Ancestry's London Parish Registers. It should at least give his father's name and perhaps parish. The other option is to buy the civil marriage certificate from GRO and see where it leads. As for Ancestry, well.......??? When I search with exact matches for somebody born 1850 in Lancashire and get a match in 1950 in Cleveland, I do start to wonder about programming standards. Peter ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 11:43:22 +0100 From: Rebecca Moody <moodychelsea@hotmail.co.uk> Subject: [SXP] Kelsey Family - Steyning To: "sussex-plus-l@rootsweb.com" <sussex-plus-l@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <DUB117-W43F175B32676E863A9C7D197730@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I seem to have hit a brick wall! Can anyone help? I am trying to discover who the parents were of Thomas Kelsey who married Elizabeth Reed in Southwick in April 1711. Once the couple married they seem to have settled in the Steyning area and there are records for the baptism of their children at Steyning. I believe the following are their children (all were baptised in Steyning): John baptised 1711 Elizabeth baptised 1712 Thomas baptised 1714 Mary baptised 1717 Sarah baptised 1719 Susan baptised 1723 Richard baptised 1726 Henry baptised 1728 William baptised 1732 If anyone has any information on the family it would be most gratefully received! Looking through the Steyning parish registers their seems to have been Kelsey's baptised from 1580-1623 and then the next Kelsey is not baptised in Steyning until 1711 - if anyone has any ideas on where the family disappeared to during this period I would love to hear them. Regards Rebecca Moody ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 22:45:32 +0100 From: Dianne Young <di.young@ntlworld.com> Subject: [SXP] Bexhill directory lookup To: SUSSEX-PLUS@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4B9715A7-3CBA-4672-8E01-3C602DDECB1A@ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi If anyone has access to Bexhill directories between 1925 and 1950 I would be grateful for the listings for 31 and 29 Salisbury road Bexhill as I had relatives living there between those dates and would like to confirm the surnames if possible. Any help that you can give would be much appreciated. Thanks Dianne ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 09:18:26 +1000 From: Linda Price <lindavpri@optusnet.com.au> Subject: [SXP] Kingston by Lewes St Pancras To: SUSSEX-PLUS@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <51D4B142.1070408@optusnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hello Does anyone know what year the Kingston by Lewes PRs listed the age of death in their burial records . .? Also - have the MIs been done for Kingston. . .? Hoping to find the age at death of Elizabeth WINDER who was buried 30 Dec 1781 at St Pancras . . . or a surviving headstone. Any help appreciated. Linda (Melbourne AUS) ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 09:50:10 +1000 From: "Peter R Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: [SXP] Kingston by Lewes St Pancras To: <SUSSEX-PLUS@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <002e01ce7848$0e017cc0$0500a8c0@family> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Linda, Probably not in Parish Records, but age at death should be in Civil Records.. A quick look on FreeBMD will show when they started. Peter ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 10:04:34 +1000 From: "Peter R Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: [SXP] Kelsey Family - Steyning To: <sussex-plus-l@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <004e01ce784a$10ba9760$0500a8c0@family> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Rebecca, I thought you may have run out of records, but the Archer Software site shows records go back to 1565. It looks like your problem is the gap in baptisms between 1623-1711. It could simply be that the register for that period hasn't survived. Have a look if there are any Kelsey marriages in this period. You might be able to fill part of the gap For example people born 1620 would most likely marry around 1640. And at the other end, people having children in 1711, would be born around 1690. So the gap becomes 50 rather than 100 years. Peter ------------------------------ To contact the SUSSEX-PLUS list administrator, send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SUSSEX-PLUS mailing list, send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SUSSEX-PLUS Digest, Vol 8, Issue 70 ******************************************

The 50 year gap Peter described (1640-1690) included a time of unrest. During the English Civil War and in the following Commonwealth period, records were poorly kept and many are now missing after being destroyed or hidden by the clergy. Also in my research I´ve found gaps in Parish Registers at this time. In one parish the incumbent wrote a note at the end of the 17th century, to the effect that the person responsible for maintaining the registers had neglected to do so for some 30 years. So records missing 1642 - 1660 due to unrest an then the parish clerk didn´t complete the registers for yet another 30 years. Diane

The Steyning Parish Registers don't appear to suffer from the usual 'Commonwealth Gap', certainly not as far as baptisms and burials are concerned. Indeed the baptism register, in particular, was kept assiduously with both the date of birth and date of baptism recorded. There used to be a problem with dates in the marriages section during this period, but I believe that was remedied when the Sussex Marriage Index was being compiled. Steyning was a market town and drew people in from a wide area. I would suggest checking the registers of adjacent parishes e.g. Botolphs, Bramber, Ashurst & Wiston to see if they have any entries for the KELSEY family that might help to plug the gap. Have you tried checking the West Sussex Poor Law Index on the SRS web site, www.sussexrecordsociety.org , to see if there were any settlement cases that might explain the family's disappearance and then reappearance in Steyning? At the other end of the social scale, have you checked Chichester Archdeaconry Wills and PCC Wills to see if anything there strikes a chord? The Protestation Returns 1641/42 survive for most of West Sussex and are, effectively, a census of males over 18 years of age. They were transcribed, indexed and published as SRS volume 5 and could give a clue as to the parishes where the family was living at that time. You will find the volume on the SRS web site. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

Rebecca, I thought you may have run out of records, but the Archer Software site shows records go back to 1565. It looks like your problem is the gap in baptisms between 1623-1711. It could simply be that the register for that period hasn't survived. Have a look if there are any Kelsey marriages in this period. You might be able to fill part of the gap For example people born 1620 would most likely marry around 1640. And at the other end, people having children in 1711, would be born around 1690. So the gap becomes 50 rather than 100 years. Peter

Linda, Probably not in Parish Records, but age at death should be in Civil Records.. A quick look on FreeBMD will show when they started. Peter

Hello Does anyone know what year the Kingston by Lewes PRs listed the age of death in their burial records . .? Also - have the MIs been done for Kingston. . .? Hoping to find the age at death of Elizabeth WINDER who was buried 30 Dec 1781 at St Pancras . . . or a surviving headstone. Any help appreciated. Linda (Melbourne AUS)

A standard form of parish burial register was introduced in England and Wales in 1813 and that contained a column for the age at death. Before that, you do very occasionally find a vicar who would enter the age, but more often not. I do not know whether the memorial inscriptions at Kingston-by-Lewes have been collected. However, if you are a SFHG member, a search of their Tombstones & Burials Index can be made. Go to http://sfhg.org.uk/tombstones.html for further details. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

Hi Dianne I can have a look at the directories in the Bexhill reference library for you. What names are you looking for? David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 22:45:32 +0100 > From: Dianne Young <di.young@ntlworld.com> > Hi If anyone has access to Bexhill directories between 1925 and 1950 I would be grateful for the listings for 31 and 29 Salisbury road Bexhill as I had relatives living there between those dates and would like to confirm the surnames if possible. > Any help that you can give would be much appreciated. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi If anyone has access to Bexhill directories between 1925 and 1950 I would be grateful for the listings for 31 and 29 Salisbury road Bexhill as I had relatives living there between those dates and would like to confirm the surnames if possible. Any help that you can give would be much appreciated. Thanks Dianne

Maureen, I can't find them in 1861. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to check out all the options. Did one or both parents die? Did the son Thomas die? Did they migrate? Or is it a simple transcription error? Try Tho*, Eliz* or even Betty. Look for all Goodwin males in Middlesex with birth place Nottingham. There's lots of alternatives. The other option is to see if there is a marriage on Ancestry's London Parish Registers. It should at least give his father's name and perhaps parish. The other option is to buy the civil marriage certificate from GRO and see where it leads. As for Ancestry, well.......??? When I search with exact matches for somebody born 1850 in Lancashire and get a match in 1950 in Cleveland, I do start to wonder about programming standards. Peter

Hi Peter, Sorry about the mistake, it should read Thomas GOODWIn b. 1821 not 1721. In the 1851 census it shows him being born in Notts. In that census he was living with his wife Elizabeth (nee Farrer) and their one year old son Thomas. Elizabeth was born in St. Pancras in 1823 and apart from the 1851 census I can't find anything about them. Barbara was Elizabeth's mother. I found Barbara in Portslade in the 1871 census and then I have her death certificate for 1871 in Portslade and I also found a Thomas GOODWIN's death in 1874 in Lewes. Thinking outside the square I was wondering if Barbara moved from Islington (in the 1861 census) to Portslade because of her daughter and family moving there and perhaps this GOODWIN is Thomas her son-in-law ???? Commenting on Ancestry. It often happens that I can find something on their site and then months later I can't find it and also they repeat a lot of things. The Old Ancestry was so much better. Why is it that you might put in location Yorkshire and yet you have to trawl through all the other counties. Maureen in Oz.

I seem to have hit a brick wall! Can anyone help? I am trying to discover who the parents were of Thomas Kelsey who married Elizabeth Reed in Southwick in April 1711. Once the couple married they seem to have settled in the Steyning area and there are records for the baptism of their children at Steyning. I believe the following are their children (all were baptised in Steyning): John baptised 1711 Elizabeth baptised 1712 Thomas baptised 1714 Mary baptised 1717 Sarah baptised 1719 Susan baptised 1723 Richard baptised 1726 Henry baptised 1728 William baptised 1732 If anyone has any information on the family it would be most gratefully received! Looking through the Steyning parish registers their seems to have been Kelsey's baptised from 1580-1623 and then the next Kelsey is not baptised in Steyning until 1711 - if anyone has any ideas on where the family disappeared to during this period I would love to hear them. Regards Rebecca Moody