Hi Yvonne,   I have checked the Sussex Marriage Index, which is a CD containing pretty well every Sussex marriage from c1537 to 1837. and the first James Carpenter marriage shown doen't take place until 1692.  Errors or omissions in this CD are very few and far between.   Are you certain as to the accuracy of your information?.   All the best,   Robin ________________________________ From: yvonne cutts <bazahome-cutts@powerup.com.au> To: SUSSEX PLUS <SUSSEX-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2013, 0:20 Subject: [SXP] marriage Yvonne From Australia                                         I need some help please. I have a marriage of JAMES CARPENTER TO JOANE ? 19 September 1651 Falmer Sussex I cannot read the last name of Joane. Is there anyone who goes to the Sussex record office can check for me please Yvonne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yvonne From Australia I need some help please. I have a marriage of JAMES CARPENTER TO JOANE ? 19 September 1651 Falmer Sussex I cannot read the last name of Joane. Is there anyone who goes to the Sussex record office can check for me please Yvonne

This is a tricky one. To answer your actual question, the registers for Falmer are deposited at the East Sussex Record Office and that facility is currently closed until November as it is relocating .... to Falmer. However, there is a problem here. This particular marriage is not shown on the Sussex Marriage Index or on the updates; neither, as far as I can see, is it shown on Family Search. According to Archer Software, the marriage should be in Batch M148153, but I have looked through that Batch and I can't see it there. In fact, the only CARPENTER marriage that I can find in 1651 is for a Robert CARPENTER to Elizabeth RELF on 06 May 1651 at Burwash. Clearly, you have found the marriage on 19 Sep 1651, so it must exist. If you are able to obtain a copy of the evidence for the marriage and send me a scan as a *.jpg file, I will check it against the BT's at WSRO when I next make a visit there. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

Tim & Marion, Not sure how you missed it, but you can always check the list archives. The real shame is that Ralph was looking for current day descendants, and I spent a couple of hours looking for ancestors that he already had. When people ask for anyone with connections they really need to make it clear that the are looking for current day descendants. Especially when it's a name like Smith. I'd also remind people that UK BMD are available right up to around 2005. So finding current day descendants should be a matter of following the records. And anyone should be able to do the bulk of it for themselves. Peter

I expect that I missed the original message because of my own inattention. That doesn't happen very often, but it does happen from time-to-time when I am a little below par. I did check the list archives before posting my message to Ralph, but his original message wasn't actually showing at the time: I believe that there is sometimes a small time delay between a message being posted and it appearing in the archives. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

I suggested that Ralph sent me details direct, rather than re-posting his earlier request to this Mailing List, as I wanted to avoid list members having the annoyance of seeing a double posting. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

On 7 Jul at 14:23, "Marion Woolgar" <listmail008@btinternet.com> wrote: > Excuse me, I seem to have missed your original E-mail to the List. I > live in Bognor, so if you think that I might be able to help you in > some way, please let me have the details off-List to > woolgar@one-name.org and I will see what I can do to assist you. A shame, really! Why can't we share all this on the list so we can all learn from it? -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Ralph, Looking for Sarah Robins who as a sister was the witness to the 1894 death of Fanny Smith. I found a tree on Ancestry for Mark Robbins and Sarah Smith who married on the Isle of Wight in 1877. If the tree is correct, it looks like Sarah may have had two illegitimate children Mary 1863 and John 1875 that pre-date the marriage. If you look in 1851 census for Isle of Wight you will see what looks like a widower William Smith born c1807 with children Sarah c1834, Louisa c1835, Mark c1839, Leah c1841, Fanny c1843 and Ruth c1844. So it looks like Fanny Smith married a James Smith. Your father's birth certificate might confirm her maiden name. It's probably all a bit much to comprehend in one go. I'd encourage you to update your Ancestry tree if you still subscribe. That will give you a lot of branches to follow to find relatives. Some may already have trees on Ancestry which should generate plenty of leafy hints. As I said, it's all there. Peter in Sydney

Excuse me, I seem to have missed your original E-mail to the List. I live in Bognor, so if you think that I might be able to help you in some way, please let me have the details off-List to woolgar@one-name.org and I will see what I can do to assist you. Best wishes, Marion Woolgar

Ralph, As I said, all the data is available. If you search for James Smith born 1836 +/-5 birthplace Fordingbridge you will be able to find him. In 1841 he's with parents Robert c1795 & Johannah c1805. Robert died before next census. In 1851, James is with his widowed mother and other children. In 1861 and 1871 he is a tailor at Ringwood. Subject to proper checking, his siblings look to be Eliza Ann c1824, Sarah c1826, Charles c1830, Robert c1832, Samuel c1835 and James is the youngest c1836. Unfortunately the fact that he is unmarried in 1871, excludes the possible 1868 marriage I found in Hampshire. Not only that, but because we don't know a location, it introduces 20 or so possible James Smith / Fanny marriages between 1871 and birth of Lillian in 1874. That may require purchasing Lillian's birth certificate. Alternatively, you say Fanny's sister Sarah Robins was present at her death. Was Sarah married? If you found her maiden name, it would identify Fanny and her parents. Peter

Ralph, I'm guessing you're getting on in years and struggle with the technology. Do you have a younger family member who could assist? All the data is there. Apart from the menace of the Smith surname, you should readily be able to get back to 1800. And you should also be able to trace descendants almost to current day. It's a case of working through each census in conjunction with records on FreeBMD. Do you still have your Ancestry subscription? I see you put up a tree in 2007. Did you get any little leafy hints suggesting matches with other submitters? Ancestry will also provide access to census and later BMD records. If you don't have a current subscription check around local libraries and FHS centres. Looking at 1891 census, James Smith, tailor, was born c1837 at Fordingbridge HANTS. His wife Fanny was born c1845 at Newport on Isle of Wight. FreeBDM has a Mar 1868 marriage at Winchester suggesting her maiden name was Saunders. But it needs to be checked. 1851 and 1861 should find them with parents. 1871 and later should find them together. In 1891 they have children Lillian b1874, Catherine b1883 and your father Ralph b1885. Lillian's birthplace is given as Ventnor, Is of Wight. The other two are born Southsea, Hampshire. I see your mother was Beatrice Stainer but privacy of living individuals prevent me accessing later data from your tree. I could do the research, but you already know it. Your closest living relatives will come from families of Lillian, Catherine and Ralph. Have you traced all those lines? Once you look at 1851 and 1861 census, you might find some siblings of James & Fanny, which will broaden the search. Hope that helps. Peter

Hi Nivard, On Barbara FARRER's death certificate it says SARAH GENNER live at 4 North Street, Portslade and Barbara lived next door at No. 5. I will join the Northants list and see how I go from there. I don't know where we would be without your knowledge, so am very grateful for any help. Maureen in Oz.

Hi Folks , Is there any one that has a connection with a James & Fanny Smith. They lived at Bognor Regis in 1890'S Fanny smith died in 1894 and was buried at Bognor James lived there in the 1911 Cens, they had a daughter Catherine Agnes and a son Ralph James who joined the navy until 1912 . Fanny's death cert states that her sister Sarah Robins was present at the Death and lived at 4 Stene Bognor. I ask as Ralph James was my father. I look forward to any information that I can get on either families. Regards Ralph Smith

Hi Mary You probably didn't get a reply as no one found anything of help to you There are far fewer resources online for the last 50 or so years than before that so you tend to get less in the way of response Plus we are into the recent past and people are reluctant (and rightly so) to talk about people who could still be around As you know they passed away in 2003 & 2005, have you checked for a will for either? Obituaries are very few and far between unless they did something rather unusual Even death notices are far fewer than they once were perhaps due to the cost but also due to the ease at which news is passed around a family and friends these days Unless you get a response from your post re the papers, I would think the will(s) would be worth trying for, at £6 per will its a reasonable gamble Also just a suggestion but do put the surnames in capitals, it does make it stand out and easier to tell the surname from any other name, I read your subject line initially as Albert HENRY & Marjorie SMITH It can lead to wasted effort Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 05/07/2013 15:34, Mary Newbery wrote: > Dear Listers, > My recent query regarding this couple met with no response. However, I think > I've established that they were born in 1917, lived in Bexhill from the > 1970s at least and into the past decade. Albert seems to have died in April > 2003 and Marjorie followed him in April 2005. > My quest is now to find relatives. I'm told (by the present owners of thier > flat) that a nephew lives in London. > I wonder if anyone could tell me if there were obituaries in local papers > for either of this spouse that could cast some light onto their lives or > help me find friends or relatives. > Best wishes, > Mary

Dear Nivard and Peter, Thank you very much for your research. My connection is with Elizabeth FARRER. It is hard living in Australia to know which is the right county. Northamptonshire or Nottinghamshire ? I will try and digest what you have told me. Thomas's fathers name appears on the marriage certificate as Oates Cliff GOODWIN. I realise this isn't a Sussex problem, but I did start the thread with the question of Thomas GOODWIN dying in Lewes and wondered if there was a connection. Also Barbara FARRER's death certificate in 1871 in No.5 North St.Portslade-by-the-sea. It was registered by a Sarah Genner who lived at No.4 and was present at the death. (Neighbour ?) I also posted a question to Sussex because in the 1871 census it listed Barbara as being a receiptent of Parish Pay. I will now try Northampton list. Again thanks for your help, very much appreciated. Maureen in Oz.

Thanks to some great research skills, Nivard seems to have sorted it all out. It looks like we shouldn't be in Sussex, Notts or even Huntingdonshire, but Northamptonshire. But Elton looks right on the border, so there mat have been some realignment over time. Thomas' father Oates Cliff Goodwin is born 1787 at Elton to Richard Goodwin & Susannah Cliff. Unfortunately three submitted trees at Family Search incorrectly suggest Oates died in 1788 and 1792. Perhaps there was a second son given the name of the dead child. The real death is 1876 in Thrapston Apart from the wrong location, there are a series of variants for his given name. In 1841 he's Oak, in 1851 he's Pate, in 1861 he's Oatscliff, and in 1871 he's Oats. Thomas appears with the family in 1841. We still haven't found Thomas after 1851, but if Maureen is a descendant she should know something of his fate or his children. Perhaps using Northamptonshire for his birthplace may help. My fear is that he may have died or migrated which makes further census searches a waste of time. Peter

Dear Listers, My recent query regarding this couple met with no response. However, I think I've established that they were born in 1917, lived in Bexhill from the 1970s at least and into the past decade. Albert seems to have died in April 2003 and Marjorie followed him in April 2005. My quest is now to find relatives. I'm told (by the present owners of thier flat) that a nephew lives in London. I wonder if anyone could tell me if there were obituaries in local papers for either of this spouse that could cast some light onto their lives or help me find friends or relatives. Best wishes, Mary

Hi Maureen To be honest living in Australia is not the problem as many in this Country find it difficult to work out locations as well, myself included at times <g> The place in question is very close to the County border and may come under one County for one thing and a bordering County for another, so don't feel you are being told off :-) For example Elton is in Huntingdonshire but for Poor Laws comes under Oundle as it does for Civil Registration , it was just the powers that be trying to smooth off the areas covered for administration of certain things, so its little wonder that the people themselves had problems knowing where a place fell The suggestion to post to a relevant County list is not an admonition but rather to help you get a better response to your questions As it happens its a toss up whether the Huntingdonshire or Northamptonshire list would be the best one, personally I would try both (but separately, not cross posting to both at the same time) A list that covers Northamptonshire is this one <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/NORTHANTS.html> I only mention that as it does not come up in the list search for Northamptonshire (as its under Northants) One very useful site for sorting out jurisdictions is this one <http://maps.familysearch.org/> It is based on 1851 but will help for most situations It also has a very useful County level and Parish level map By the way there are two Sarah GENNERs in 1871 Portslade, one at No 8 East Street aged 72 a charwoman, and the other at 9 Clarence Street aged 27, one a few pages either side of Barbara FARRER, does the informant at the death give an address? Possibly the older woman either as a friend or a nurse The younger GENNER appears to have a maiden name MUZZLE so its not that as a connection Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 05/07/2013 07:37, Maureen Farrer wrote: > Dear Nivard and Peter, > > Thank you very much for your research. My connection is with Elizabeth FARRER. It is hard living in Australia to know which is the right county. Northamptonshire or Nottinghamshire ? > > I will try and digest what you have told me. Thomas's fathers name appears on the marriage certificate as Oates Cliff GOODWIN. > > I realise this isn't a Sussex problem, but I did start the thread with the question of Thomas GOODWIN dying in Lewes and wondered if there was a connection. Also Barbara FARRER's death certificate > in 1871 in No.5 North St.Portslade-by-the-sea. It was registered by a Sarah Genner who lived at No.4 and was present at the death. (Neighbour ?) I also posted a question to Sussex because in the 1871 > census it listed Barbara as being a receiptent of Parish Pay. > > I will now try Northampton list. > > Again thanks for your help, very much appreciated. > > Maureen in Oz.

Hi Mary: I checked the obituaries for Bexhill and there is nothing. You could contact the Bexhill Cemetery at rosemary.burt@rother.gov.uk and Hastings Cemetery at cemandcrem@hastings.gov.uk. You could also try the Eastbourne Cemeteries at cemeteries@eastbourne.gov.uk Bexhill has a very high population of people over the age of 65 so sometimes people are taken care of at different cemeteries. Bexhill does not have a cremetorium. If you find any information about either Albert or Marjorie at one of these cemeteries they might not give you information about next of kin but you could ask them to forward a letter or an email for you. Ann Woodhouse Los Angeles, California

Marion, While Steyning records may be there, I can't see any Kelsey records in all Sussex from about 1630-1690. Perhaps with all the turmoil they just stopped attending church. Is that likely? Peter