Hi Pam, Hi Pam, Have a look at this website http://www.felbridge.org.uk/index.php?p=2_53 Second paragraph - The name of Alfrey has had many different spellings over the years, Alfray, Alfry, Alfrye, Allfray, Allfree, Alferay, Affery, Alphrey, Alfrai, Alfrais, Alfraies and Elvery, to name but a few. I don't know if you have the SMI but searching on Elvery only produces the obvious variations - but searching on Alvery finds many of the above and more.If you don't have it let me know and I will put a list together for you. all the best, Anne > From: cliveden@iinet.net.au > To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com; SUSSEX-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 14:58:38 +1000 > Subject: [SXP] ELVERY surname > > Greetings Listers > > One of my 11th Great-grandfathers was Richard ELVERY who died in Rye on 19/20 May 1564 (he signed his Will on 19th and was buried on 20th). When I checked the SFHG database for ELVERY, there were just 3 entries - Richard's burial and one entry under each of two other headings. > > Does anyone know of any variant of this name that I should be searching for please? Or does anyone else have any information on the surname ELVERY in Sussex in the early centuries of PRs? > > Although I have the dates for Richard's Will, I don't appear to have a copy of it (although in changing computers something may have gone missing!) Has anyone any information on this 1564 Will of Richard ELVERY. > > Many thanks > > Pam > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pam, Do have Ancestry ?, the will you refer to is Elveryd in the Extract Probate Records. You can't see the will. There is Elverie alternative aswell. Just try Richard Elver*. Hope this helps. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "PMR" <cliveden@iinet.net.au> To: "SFHG Mailing List" <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com>; "SSX-PLUS Mailing List" <SUSSEX-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 4:58 AM Subject: [SXP] ELVERY surname > Greetings Listers > > One of my 11th Great-grandfathers was Richard ELVERY who died > in Rye on 19/20 May 1564 (he signed his Will on 19th and was buried on > 20th). When I checked the SFHG database for ELVERY, there were just 3 > entries - Richard's burial and one entry under each of two other headings. > > Does anyone know of any variant of this name that I should be > searching for please? Or does anyone else have any information on the > surname ELVERY in Sussex in the early centuries of PRs? > > Although I have the dates for Richard's Will, I don't appear to > have a copy of it (although in changing computers something may have gone > missing!) Has anyone any information on this 1564 Will of Richard ELVERY. > > Many thanks > > Pam > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Her Majesty The Queen, accompanied by His Royal Highness The Duke of Edinburgh, will tomorrow officially open The Keep - the new historical resource centre for Brighton & Hove and East Sussex   The Queen will meet staff and volunteer groups before unveiling a plaque to mark her visit. The Keep opens to the public on Tuesday 19th November.

Greetings Listers I've just read, on an Internet site, a query about a family with the first child baptised on 16 Mar 1678. The respondent found the parents' marriage on 9 Dec 1678 and added the comment that 'the baptism is before the parents married'. Those who know about the earlier calendar will know that this is not so! 16 March 1678 is a tad over three months AFTER 9 Dec 1678 as the year went from 25th March to 24th March. The Calendar as we know it came into force in England on 1 Jan 1752, with that day being New Year's Day. Before that, 25th March was New Year's Day (if such was celebrated at that time). From this it can be seen that 1751 was only a bit over 9 months long. Dates like 16 Mar 1678 are often written 16 Mar 1678(9), indicating it was, for example, 1678 at the time but 1679 'new style' ie as we have it now. I hope this makes sense and can help a bit. There's a lot more to all this that someone may be able to add. Pam Australia.

Greetings Listers I'm hoping to get in touch with Mandy WILLARD who is (or was) living in Bexhill. We have shared PERIGOE ancestry. Mandy, I sent an email but there was a query in your info that it may not be operative. I'm also descended from Robert PERIGOE and Martha GABRIALL. I'd love to make contact (have caught up with a couple of other cousins on this line). Cheers Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia

Info on the Julian and Gregorian calenders can be found here. Note that countries changed from one to the other at different times http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/julian-gregorian-switch.html

Greetings Listers I think I asked this question some years ago, but have recently changed computers and am now using Windows 7 which I don't yet understand regarding searching the database! One of my ancestors - Robert PERIGOE - is listed in the Assize Rolls of Kent in 1585 as follows (the entry seems a bit truncated): ASSIZE ROLLS (Kent) Elizabeth I, no. 1363 (p. 228). Robert Perygoe of Sevenoaks, smith - theft on 1 Feb 1585 found guilty, but allowed benefit of the clergy. I'm in the process of writing his story - it won't be very long, just a page or so - and want to get details correct. Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. Many thanks. Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australai.

Ah. Found it! It was dumped in my junk box - how dare they!! So 1585 - Elizabeth's reign - Wiki "In 1575, a statute of Elizabeth I radically changed the effect of the benefit of clergy. Whereas before, the benefit was pleaded before a trial to have the case transferred to an ecclesiastical court, under the new system the benefit of clergy was pleaded after conviction but before sentencing, and it did not nullify the conviction, but rather changed the sentence for first-time offenders from probable hanging to branding and up to a year's incarceration." Interesting - his name was PERIGOE - do you know any more about him/his background? In my Huguenot studies, a family much involved with my Duterrau ancestors were the PERIGAL family (intermarriage and working partners). Is there any possibility that the family were of French origin? The Massacre of Vassy (Wassy) in 1562 started the (French) Wars of Religion, slowed up by the Edict of Nantes in 1598 and reactivated in mid 17th century. THe Revocation of The Edict of Nantes in 1685 removed all support for the Protestants (Huguenots) and effectively turned then into outlaws - officially to be exterminated. Jean Wood http://www.cheziris.eu/index.htm http://www.cheziris.eu/Duterrau.htm http://www.saintes-fleur-de-sel.fr/index.htm > From: cliveden@iinet.net.au > To: SUSSEX-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com; SFHG-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 17:14:58 +1000 > Subject: [SXP] Benefit of the Clergy > > Greetings Listers > > I think I asked this question some years ago, but have recently changed computers and am now using Windows 7 which I don't yet understand regarding searching the database! > > One of my ancestors - Robert PERIGOE - is listed in the Assize Rolls of Kent in 1585 as follows (the entry seems a bit truncated): > > ASSIZE ROLLS (Kent) > > Elizabeth I, no. 1363 (p. 228). Robert Perygoe of Sevenoaks, smith - theft on > > 1 Feb 1585 found guilty, but allowed benefit of the clergy. > > > > I'm in the process of writing his story - it won't be very long, just a page or so - and want to get details correct. > > > > Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. > > > > Many thanks. > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australai. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I do not seem to be able to find the original message with the question. So, what was the year the benefit was claimed by Robert and what does "here" mean in the original post? >From school A level history I remember that there was quite a lot of abuse in that clerics and those who claimed "benefit of clergy" could literally "get away with murder" and lesser crimes too. (I wonder if that was actually the origin of that saying?) That is why it was tackled in law several times Here is the Wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_of_clergy Note that at various times 1. anyone who could read 2. first time offenders It is only short but VERY complicated. I suggest you read the entire wiki entry. It is very interesting, but I am not sure I understand the later grounds for claim! Jean Wood http://www.cheziris.eu/index.htm http://www.cheziris.eu/Duterrau.htm http://www.saintes-fleur-de-sel.fr/index.htm > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:26:09 +0100 > From: connie.sparrer@gmail.com > To: cliveden@iinet.net.au; SUSSEX-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SXP] Benefit of the Clergy > > On 20/10/2013 08:14, PMR wrote: >> Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. > > > Courtesy of Google: > > "In English law, the benefit of clergy (Law Latin Privilegium clericale) was > originally a provision by which clergymen could claim that they were outside the > jurisdiction of the secular courts and be tried instead in an ecclesiastical > court under canon law. Eventually, the course of history transformed it into a > mechanism by which first-time offenders could receive a more lenient sentence > for some lesser crimes (the so-called "clergyable" ones)." > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_of_clergy) > > These are some other references: > > http://thelawdictionary.org/benefit-of-clergy/ > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/benefit%20of%20clergy > http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/121291/benefit-of-clergy > http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Benefit+of+clergy > > There are a number of other references > > Benefit of Clergy was abolished in 1841 after some 400 years. Without Benefit > of Clergy meant a couple living together without being married. > > I've taken out the SFHG address because I don't below to that list > > -- > Connie > http://oursalmons.wordpress.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

PMR - According to the Dictionary of Genealogy - The Benefit of Clergy - "A product of the conflict between the claims of Common and Canon Law. As a compromise, the Common Law courts abandoned the death penalty for some less serous capital crimes when the person convicted was a clericus (clerk), and a secondary punishment was inflicted. As a result, offences came to be classes as 'clergyable' and 'unclergyable'. The term 'clerk' had always included a large number of people in minor orders, but in 1305 it was extended to apply to secular clerks able to read and understand Latin. The test test was the first verse of the 50th Psalm in the Vulgate (the Latin version of the Bible), popularly known as the 'Neck Verse'. In English, it reads, 'Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness; according unto the multitude of they tender mercies, blot out my transgressions'. This requirement degenerated into the ability to read the same verse - which in the Authorised Version became the first verse of the 51st Psalm - in English. If a convicted prisoner on a capital charge read this successfully, he was merely branded on his thumb. The device had become a legal fiction to modify the severity of the English criminal law for first offenders. Even the test was abandoned in 1705, but it was not until 1827 that Benefit of Clergy itself was abolished. So, maybe Robert could read .... Lynne in Tucson -----Original Message----- From: PMR Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:14 AM To: SSX-PLUS Mailing List ; SFHG Mailing List Subject: [SXP] Benefit of the Clergy Greetings Listers I think I asked this question some years ago, but have recently changed computers and am now using Windows 7 which I don't yet understand regarding searching the database! One of my ancestors - Robert PERIGOE - is listed in the Assize Rolls of Kent in 1585 as follows (the entry seems a bit truncated): ASSIZE ROLLS (Kent) Elizabeth I, no. 1363 (p. 228). Robert Perygoe of Sevenoaks, smith - theft on 1 Feb 1585 found guilty, but allowed benefit of the clergy. I'm in the process of writing his story - it won't be very long, just a page or so - and want to get details correct. Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. Many thanks. Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australai. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 20/10/2013 08:14, PMR wrote: > Can someone enlighten me about the 'benefit of the clergy' please? Robert wasn't a clergyman - he listed here as as smith and elsewhere as a gunsmith (which fits very well with his grandfather's (we thin) occupation of cannonier - so how would 'benefit of the clergy' apply to him. Courtesy of Google: "In English law, the benefit of clergy (Law Latin Privilegium clericale) was originally a provision by which clergymen could claim that they were outside the jurisdiction of the secular courts and be tried instead in an ecclesiastical court under canon law. Eventually, the course of history transformed it into a mechanism by which first-time offenders could receive a more lenient sentence for some lesser crimes (the so-called "clergyable" ones)." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_of_clergy) These are some other references: http://thelawdictionary.org/benefit-of-clergy/ http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/benefit%20of%20clergy http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/121291/benefit-of-clergy http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Benefit+of+clergy There are a number of other references Benefit of Clergy was abolished in 1841 after some 400 years. Without Benefit of Clergy meant a couple living together without being married. I've taken out the SFHG address because I don't below to that list -- Connie http://oursalmons.wordpress.com/

A reminder that Storrington & District Museum will be holding their annual "Family History Day" on Sunday 20 October from 10am to 4pm. At The Old School, School Lane, Storrington, RH20 4LL. Admission £2, free for children under 11. Adjacent free parking. Refreshments available. More information on their web site at http://storringtonmuseum.org/family_history . Best wishes, Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

Sheila, There's a Private tree on Ancestry that includes Thomas Stoner b1776, but you'd need to contact the owner via Ancestry. There's a question mark in my mind about how much data they have, as they don't include any of the other children. I usually find that I have more data than them, so I'm the one that has to do all the work. Peter

Free BMD William Stoner married Elizabeth Franklin June qtr 1892 Alfred Reginald Stoner birth September qtr 1892, both at Steyning. Regards Heather

Hi Nivard There was a marriage of John DELVES & Catherine GREEN at Waldron on 27th May 1777 according to the Sussex Marriage Index (published by the Sussex Family History Group). There are no other entries for John DELVES between 1772 and 1785. Hope this helps. Best wishes David in Bexhill. East Sussex, UK ------------------------------ >Original Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 23:28:32 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> > I am wanting to check a marriage for John DELVES to a Catharine > > GREEN is a suggested maiden name for Catharine and a marriage at Waldron > > Their first known child was Mary baptised in Buxted 1778 > > Does anyone have confirmation of any marriage that fits please whether > GREEN or otherwise ------------------------------

Hi I'm looking into this STONER family Henry STONER wife Elizabeth - married in Nuthurst (according to removal order of 4 Nov 1786 @ Cowfold) but marriage not found Thomas born c1776 (christened 1776 Horsham) William born c1777 (christened 1778 Horsham) Ann born c1778 Hannah born c1782 Philip born c 1785 William married Ann MARNER 1800 Findon, Sussex. I don't know what happened to the other children I would be grateful for any help with this family. thank you. Sheila

Next Monday at 7.30pm on BBC1's Inside Out programme there will be an article on the new archives at The Keep in Falmer Liz

Hi Anne I confess I rushed off my post last night without checking the obvious, ie OPCs I will now do so :-) I was more concerned it was another marriage plucked out of thin air as so many are but that does not seem to be the case here I do like a belt to go with the braces <vbg> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/10/2013 13:28, Anne Capewell wrote: > Waldron also has an OPC - http://www.sussex-opc.org/index.php?cy=1&at=0&n=waldron&t=parish&a=&no=6&l=&b=index.php > hth, Anne

Waldron also has an OPC - http://www.sussex-opc.org/index.php?cy=1&at=0&n=waldron&t=parish&a=&no=6&l=&b=index.php hth, Anne ----------------------------------------> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:09:33 +0100> From: ovington.one@gmail.com> To: stauntonlinda@googlemail.com> CC: sussex-plus@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SXP] 1777 marriage at Waldron DELVES to GREEN>> Hi Linda>> Thanks for that pointer, must admit not researched in Sussex for a while> so had not thought to look there>> I will check it out>> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)>> On 10/10/2013 09:33, Linda Staunton wrote:>> Hi Nivard,>>>> While I can't confirm but the Sussex Weald website shows the family with>> ancestors and descendents reference someone who it would appear has>> researched the family so I'd suggest contacting them.>>>> Hope this helps.>>>> Kind regards,>>>> Linda>> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linda Thanks for that pointer, must admit not researched in Sussex for a while so had not thought to look there I will check it out Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/10/2013 09:33, Linda Staunton wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > While I can't confirm but the Sussex Weald website shows the family with > ancestors and descendents reference someone who it would appear has > researched the family so I'd suggest contacting them. > > Hope this helps. > > Kind regards, > > Linda