Thank you to all the listers who have passed on info about these murders. I don't think I could thank everyone personally. To Linda, I would claim them if I could tie them into my tree of Francis Howlett GEERING. There were 9 children to Richard & Mary Ann so Benjamin still had some brothers & sisters, but I haven't got to them as yet so I don t know what happened to them. I was interested because Richard is a name that is in my tree a lot. Norma (nee GEERING) in Australia

Looking for Thomas SMITH or ELBOURN 1864 Clerkenwell so about 6 Mothers name is Mary SMITH born Barnet approx age 37 Stepfathers name is Samuel SMITH Living in London area. Any possibles for the address at the time of the Census regards Neil

Andy, Thankyou so much I specifically didn't ask for Parkers because of the commonality of the name, so that was really nice. I shall now see if they are possibly mine. As for being relieved not to find any of yours......I am hankering for a rum runner amongst my Dorset lot......a highwayman would be nice to add some spice to the trees......(murderers, however, need not apply) Grin !!! Friends of mine have pirates and I am decidedly envious. I cannot complain though because I have actresses, comedians and people that came over with Wm the conquerer etc etc...... and I found my first convict recently. Doesn't bother me one iota...... viva la difference I say. Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia > Hi Pam > No SEAGROVEs or SEAGRAVEs. But there are 3 PARKERs for you! > > 1837 Adjourned Easter - Elizabeth PARKER - 26 - single - Brighton - 7yrs > 1846 Adjourned Epiphany - Ellen PARKER - 23 - single - Brighton - 7yrs > 1850 Adjourned Epiphany - Edward PARKER - 55 - Seaman - Brighton - 7 yrs > > I should have added to the original posting that the vast majority of > offences (96.5%) consisted of larceny, often of quite minor items. So > unless another crime is mentioned larceny is invariably the one involved. >

Hi Shelley, Of course you are right Shelley, serves me right for trying to answer before going off to work. I was thinking of baptisms. Silly woman Grin !!! Me not you. But the father may have been a witness at the marriage????? Or another Relfe which might help to tie in the family. I had one witness that turned out to be the brother of the bride and he actually helped me connect the families. Especially as the males were witnesses to each others marriages Still think it's worth getting the PR's...........if one of them was from the Parish you could at least collect and database all the names on the PR.....Relfe is quite unusual I would think. They often married in the wifes Parish too.......I have marriages on forms with a lot of detail (minus the fathers name of course) back into the mid 1700's. Including banns dates on the same page if your are lucky.....witnesses, with consent of parents (so tells about their age), sometimes which Parish they are from and all sorts. Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia > Hi Pam, > > Unfortunately the original entry wouldn't help, as father's names were not > recorded before Registrtion began in 1837. > > Thanks for your suggestion though. > Sandra

Hi Jan, My 3xGt Grandmother was Susanna Gurr married to William King 1829 in Isfield. her father was William Gurr b 1788 in Isfield died 1872 in Uckfield. I dont have any other of the Gurr family so I dont know if there is a connection after 1850. Wonder if this rings any bells with you? Eileen. ----- Original Message ----- Hi Everyone I'm listing my research list for Sussex area for anyone who's interested. Eliza BAKER birth c1866 F. COLWELL c1885 C1839 GEER numerous names births ranging from 1790 to 1900 GEERING Elizabeth 1760 GURR ranging from 1850 - 1900 HILLMAN numerous names my direct line - births ranging: 1800 - 1960 KING 1750 - 1850 KNIGHT 1750 - 1900 POCOCK 1850 - 1900 PRODGER Fanny c1842 WALKER my direct line many births ranging 1700 - 2000 Be interesting to see if Elizabeth Geering is related to the family in Guestling that’s been written about in other emails to this list. One very sick lady. Jan (WA AUST) Have a Nice Day No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.8/1236 - Release Date: 21/01/2008 8:23 PM

Hi Trish, Can I also add my tuppence worth to this thread which has been most knowledgably answered by Marion, Jim and Joanne. I live in NSW and I first bought my copy of "The Oxford Dictionary of Local & Family History" by David Hey. ISBN 0-19-860080-1 printed in 1997 by Oxford University Press, from my local Angus & Robertson Bookshop. It is a tremendous little book, and one I'd suggest for anyone tracing their family history. I have made reference to it many times in the past for any queries to do with family history. I'm sure you'd be able to get in in WA. In my own case my 3rd great grand uncle Edmund Pearson, and his family were removed three times between Icklesham, Hailsham and Hastings in the 1830's and the removal and examination records survived and were great to see, and get copies of from the ESRO on our last visit to Sussex.. Good luck with your researching. Kind regards....Robyn Arkinstall. Our web site can be found at: http://erindra.customer.netspace.net.au Please check out the website of the Central Coast Family History Society Inc At http://www.centralcoastfhs.org.au

Hi again, This is a wonderful group. Thank you Marion for a great explanation and also to Jim, Joanne and Mike for taking the time to answer me. I will read up on the web sites you have given me to get a better insight into it. Again thank you all. Trish D Pingelly West Aust lady.58@bigpond.com

Hello from New Zealand Can anyone help here please - trying to clear up a 100 year old quandry....for an 85 yr old grandmother...... 1871 Census Brighton DENNEY / DENNY family of Brighton, Sussex Parents - John and Elizabeth?? Daughters - Alice / Adelaide and Madeline?? Possibly other children?? Any assistance appreciated about this family.... Kind regards from Maree S. Gordon, New Zealand

Third Article! Joanne Mays Becker Sleepy Hollow, New York The (London) Times, 30 April 1849; pg 8; Issue 20163; Col. B "SUPPOSED POISONINGS NEAR HASTINGs (From the Hastings and St Leonard's News) Yesterday (Friday) afternoon a jury was summoned before Mr N.P. KELL, coroner for the rape of Hastings, at the White Hart Inn, Guestling, near Hastings, to inquire into the circumstances attending the deaths of three persons suspected to have been poisoned. The circumstances of the case are as follows:- On the 13th of September last a labouring man named Richard GEERING, aged 56, living with his wife, Mary Ann GEERING, on the Green, ar Guestling, after lingering some little while, died, but no particular suspicion was entertained at the time, although the body was observed to be in a very bad state after decease. On the 27th of December following a son named George, aged 21, living at home, also died; and on the 6th ult, a second son living at home, named James, aged 26, likewise died. All three suffered from vomitings, and were attended during their illness by Mr. J.I. POCOCK. Latterly a third son, of about 20 years of age named Benjamin, has been in a state of ill health, accompanied with unnatural hunger and vomitings. Mr TICEHURST, having occasion to attend the latter, was suspicious of something wrong, and had the patient's diet consequently altered, when he soon began to recover. This made the circumstances attending the previous deaths look so suspicious that the coroner issued a warrant for the exhumation of the bodies Richard, George, and James GEERING, which had been interred in Guestling churchyard. Yesterday morning the coffins containing the bodies were dug up and removed into the church to await the disposal of the coroner. The jury having been sworn, proceeded to the churchyard. The three graves from which the bodies had been taken were on the east side of the church, and were very watery. The coffin containing the body of Richard GEERING was first brought out of the church and placed on a tombstone. The lid was then unscrewed, and on its removal the body was found to be in an advanced state of decomposition, except in the region of the abdomen. The features of the deceased were too much impaired to be recognized, but the identity of the coffin was vouched for by the maker, who was also the sexton at the time of the interment. Mr. TICEHURST, Mr. W. DUKE and Mr. F. DUKE, then proceeded to make a post mortem examination of the body. The effluvium was dreadful, and the body swimming in water. To remove the latter holes were bored in the coffin. The whole of the deceased's intestines were removed and placed in jars. The coffins containing the bodies of the two sons were then brought out and opened. The face of George was but little disfigured, while that of James was far gone. In each case the inscription on the coffin lid was discernible. The intestines of the two sons were also removed and take into the possession of Mr. TICEHURST. In all the bodies it was found that the stomach was in an unusually good state of preservation. From the stomach of George GEERING a small piece of white, gritty matter, resembling arsenic, was produced, and gritty matter was also observable in the case of the father. On the whole, the appearances presented by the different bodies seemed to be strongly indicative of death by poison. The examination being so far concluded, the jury assembled in the church, where they were addressed by the coroner, who stated that Mr. TICEHURST was of the opinion that the analysis of the contents of the bodies could not be complete until Thursday next, and perhaps would not be ready even then. The inquest therefore stood adjourned until the ensuing Thursday, at 10 o'clock a.m., when the jury would be required to give their attendance at the White Hart Inn, for which they were required to enter into their own recognizances in the sum of 10 (?l) each. The proceedings then terminated for the day. At about 6 o'clock in the evening the woman Mary Ann GEERNG was brought into Hastings in custody of the police, and lodged in the watchhouse. One of the grounds of suspicion against her is the alleged fact that her husband and sons were members of a sick club. It has been stated that they were members of a burial club, but this we believe is an error. Some of the matter ejected from the stomach of Benjamin GEERING has been reserved for analysis. Supposing the suspicions entertained in this case to prove well founded, this will form one of the most appalling circumstances that ever took place in this part of the country, and serve to swell still more the already fearful catalogue of crimes which has been presented to the public during the last few months. The woman GEERING was apprehended in the course of Thursday morning at her house. She was brought into Hastings in a cart in custody of Superintendent THOMPSON and police-constable JEFFERY. She will be brought up before the county magistrates at the Clerk's-office this morning, at 11 o'clock." **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

Hi, IGI Sarah born 22nd February 1843 baptised March 8th 1843 Henfield daughter of John and Sarah Dewdney, Regards Heather ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil White" <pwgrandmapa@comcast.net> To: "Sussex Plus" <SUSSEX-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:39 AM Subject: [SXP] Dewdney in Henfield > Hello Folks can someone find a baptism date for Elizabeth Dewdney around > March of 1843, parents John & Sarah. My transcription of Henfield only > goes > to 1838 so I am in hope Phil White in New hampshire Roots un Sussex & IOW > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

First I would like to thank the listers who have helped me on my quest. Thank you Marion and Sue. I have been searching a site called a2a which I am sure you all know about. Have come across the following "Removal order" regarding someone in my tree. What I want to know if I can is what is and why do they have a 'Removal Order'. Just trying to come to terms with things. Did they do something wrong ?? It was for a man, wife and two children. Thank you in advance for your help again. Trish D Pingelly West Aust lady.58@bigpond.com

I couldn't help but feel /*horrified*/ reading that. Does anyone claim these people as relatives? What could have possessed that poor woman? What desperate straits she must have been in. What agony of mind. Surely, no one who does something like that can be in their right mind, and therefore cannot be criminally responsible for their actions. But the worst thing is the poor son who survived - he lost all his family, had to live with the fact that his mother tried to kill him, had to give evidence against his mother which sent her to the gallows, and had to live with all this. How could he live with all that and still be sane? Is there any information about what happened to him. I can't think that he had a happy life. Linda JMBecker@aol.com wrote: > My apologies as I seem to have deleted the original email that began this > thread! However, I was at the Library on Saturday and printed off copies of > the London Times articles covering the GEERING poisonings of Guestling. The > last article is transcribed below, I will post the rest as time permits. > Cheers, > Joanne > > Joanne Mays Becker > Sleepy Hollow, New York > > The (London) Times, 22 August 1849; pg 5; Issue 20261; Col. F > "EXECUTION OF MARY ANN GEERING > LEWES, August 21 > At 12 o'clock this day Mary Ann GEERING, convicted at the last assizes > of the murder of her husband at Guestling, underwent the extreme penalty of > the law on a drop erected in front of the county gaol. > On Monday evening she made a full confession of her guilt in having poisoned > her husband and two sons, and attempted the life of her third son, Benjamin, > who was the principal witness against her on the trial; and her penitence > appeared to be so sincerely manifested that the chaplain did not hesitate to > administer to her the holy sacrament. Having thus disburdened her mind, the > culprit slept during the whole of Monday night. She awoke early in the morning > and was at once attended by the Rev. B BURNETT, the chaplain of the gaol, > who remained with her until the time of her execution. > The spectators were not numerous; not more than between 3,000 and 4,000 made > their appearance, and no feeling was manifested when she mounted the > scaffold. In about two minutes the necessary arrangements were completed and the > wretched criminal ceased to exist. > The body, after hanging an hour, was cut down, very few persons remaining > till that time. It was buried in the precincts of the gaol at 4 o'clock." > > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hello Folks can someone find a baptism date for Elizabeth Dewdney around March of 1843, parents John & Sarah. My transcription of Henfield only goes to 1838 so I am in hope Phil White in New hampshire Roots un Sussex & IOW

----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Jim Parsons <famhistfrome@yahoo.co.uk> To: Trish <lady.58@bigpond.com> Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2008 6:58:01 PM Subject: Re: [SXP] removal order If they were in a Parish and likely to be or actually were in need of "Parish Relief", if they had no right of abode in that Parish, they could, by a Removal Order, be returned to their last legal settlement. Remember, too, that only Adult Males had any rights, so a married woman (or widow) could be removed from her home parish to that of the husband. An example of a Removal Order from Hampshire Past: http://hampshire-past.co.uk/removal.htm Google "Removal Order" and a number of references come up (not all relevant however) Jim http://www.payman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk ----- Original Message ---- From: Trish <lady.58@bigpond.com> To: sussex-plus@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2008 6:17:37 PM Subject: [SXP] removal order First I would like to thank the listers who have helped me on my quest. Thank you Marion and Sue. I have been searching a site called a2a which I am sure you all know about. Have come across the following "Removal order" regarding someone in my tree. What I want to know if I can is what is and why do they have a 'Removal Order'. Just trying to come to terms with things. Did they do something wrong ?? It was for a man, wife and two children. Thank you in advance for your help again. Trish D Pingelly West Aust lady.58@bigpond.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUSSEX-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox. __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

Another article covering the trial- The (London) Times, 7 May 1849; pg 8; Issue 20169; Col. D "THE POISONINGS IN SUSSEX HASTINGS, Saturday May 5 Mary Ann GEERING, who is suspected of having poisoned her husband and three sons, underwent a lengthened examination this day at the Town-hall before Mr BRISCOE, Mr STAINES, and other county magistrates. The bodies, which had been interred in the parish churchyard of Guestling, were exhumed, and the contents of the stomaches sent to Mr TAYLOR, of Guy's Hospital, for analysation. The analysis as yet is not complete in all the cases. In two, however, arsenic has been discovered in sufficient quantities to account for death. The evidence, as far as it went, afforded strong grounds of suspicion, and the proceedings having lasted till a late hour in the day, the magistrate resolved to remand the prisoner. The prisoner was then removed to the Hastings gaol." Joanne Mays Becker Sleepy Hollow, New York **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

A couple of possibilities: No single family with Alice/Adelaide and Madeline 1871 census, Brighton, 1 Western Cottages /RG10/; Piece: /1087/; Folio: /88/; Page: /40/; GSU roll: /827501/. John Dennant age 37 Elize A Dennant age 32 Lilian S Dennant 9 Emily C Dennant 6 Gertrude M Dennant, 5 John A Dennant or Alice Dennett, age 10, born London, staying with grandparents in Brighton Charlotte Dennett 59 William Dennett 60 147 King's Road, Brighton /RG10/; Piece: /1087/; Folio: /113/; Page: /22/; GSU roll: /827501/. Alice Denny age 16 born Wandsworth. Pupil at school in Brighton. no sibs with her. Do you have approximate ages? I am sure others will come up with other suggestions. Best wishes, Helen

I would value any information about Ann STANDING or STANDEN. Born 1767 or 1769, perhaps in Inchingfield. She married Edward BURTINSHAW on 11 November 1787, and died 24 November 1832. She had a son, born 1787, Luke. Thanks Walter Crowe

This is a BIG subject and very difficult to put in a few words! As usual, its all about money. If a person wished to look for work and/or somewhere to live, it might be necessary for them to move away from their legal parish of settlement in order to find it. If they made the move and all went well and they could financially support themselves and their family, then all was well. However, if there was even a suspicion that they could become a pauper eligible to claim relief from the receiving parish, then that parish would be very keen to avoid that financial burden. The receiving parish might contact the legal parish of settlement and ask them to provide a written undertaking that they would accept responsibility, this is called a Settlement Certificate. However, there was also an option for the receiving parish to go before the Magistrate and seek an Order to remove the pauper from their parish and send him/her back to their legal parish of settlement. This is a Removal Order. If you examine the Removal Order paperwork in the parish or Quarter Sessions records, you quickly realise that the strenuous efforts of the Parish Overseers to defend their parish ratepayers from additional expense resulted in a very callous "shuttlecocking" of people from place to place. So your family only did two things wrong. They were poor and wished to move elsewhere and improve their prospects - and the receiving parish didn't want anything to do with them. That is a really brief description of a complicated Poor Law system that operated in England from 1601 to 1835. If you intend to delve into this class of records, you really need to read up on the subject first and all the standard genealogy texts will have chapters on the subject. Best wishes Marion Woolgar Bognor Regis, West Sussex

My apologies as I seem to have deleted the original email that began this thread! However, I was at the Library on Saturday and printed off copies of the London Times articles covering the GEERING poisonings of Guestling. The last article is transcribed below, I will post the rest as time permits. Cheers, Joanne Joanne Mays Becker Sleepy Hollow, New York The (London) Times, 22 August 1849; pg 5; Issue 20261; Col. F "EXECUTION OF MARY ANN GEERING LEWES, August 21 At 12 o'clock this day Mary Ann GEERING, convicted at the last assizes of the murder of her husband at Guestling, underwent the extreme penalty of the law on a drop erected in front of the county gaol. On Monday evening she made a full confession of her guilt in having poisoned her husband and two sons, and attempted the life of her third son, Benjamin, who was the principal witness against her on the trial; and her penitence appeared to be so sincerely manifested that the chaplain did not hesitate to administer to her the holy sacrament. Having thus disburdened her mind, the culprit slept during the whole of Monday night. She awoke early in the morning and was at once attended by the Rev. B BURNETT, the chaplain of the gaol, who remained with her until the time of her execution. The spectators were not numerous; not more than between 3,000 and 4,000 made their appearance, and no feeling was manifested when she mounted the scaffold. In about two minutes the necessary arrangements were completed and the wretched criminal ceased to exist. The body, after hanging an hour, was cut down, very few persons remaining till that time. It was buried in the precincts of the gaol at 4 o'clock." **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

Hi Trish, As usual, Marion WOOLGAR has done a superb job of explaining a very complex subject simply! I would like to add that the Removal Order is significant because it links the family members together and is a good indication of -at least the husband's- Parish of origin. Qualifications for Residency (i.e. the right to receive Parish relief in the event of becoming indigent) include birth in a Parish, Land ownership, having served an apprenticeship, and in the case of a married woman, marriage. If you were lucky enough to find the Settlement Examination, it would state the grounds (qualifications) upon which the Justices of the Peace rendered their decision. Absent that document, if you're looking for the father's baptism, I would check the Register for the Parish to which the family was removed. The marriage or Banns for the marriage might also be found. Happy Hunting, hope that helps, Joanne Joanne Mays Becker Sleepy Hollow, New York In a message dated 1/21/2008 1:19:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lady.58@bigpond.com writes: First I would like to thank the listers who have helped me on my quest. Thank you Marion and Sue. I have been searching a site called a2a which I am sure you all know about. Have come across the following "Removal order" regarding someone in my tree. What I want to know if I can is what is and why do they have a 'Removal Order'. Just trying to come to terms with things. Did they do something wrong ?? It was for a man, wife and two children. Thank you in advance for your help again. Trish D Pingelly West Aust lady.58@bigpond.com **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489