To all you good people out there who have taken the trouble to read my messages and especially those who have taken the trouble to reply, I am terribly sorry I have had my HTML code button on, and you have had to wade through a lot of code rubbish to read my e-mail... I feel so stupid... no wonder I cant find any family ties, when I cant even get that right... once again, sorry, now its fixed... Michael in Mount Gambier South Australia Mick@seol.net.au