Howdy I'm already on the Lovelace / Loveless list. There is no Ulmer list yet. These are my brick walls. I am posting this Loveless information in hopes someone not on the list, who might have some helpful info., might run across this. Here goes: ULMER FAMILY (me) Rex W. ULMER 1961 Kansas married Ginger HUBBELL; son of Harold ULMER 1936 Kansas married Thelma LOVELESS; son of Lawrence A. ULMER 1904 Kansas married Hazel NEWCOM; son of Andrew J. ULMER 1877 Madison Co., Illinois married Alice May WEATHERBY; son of Frederick C. ULMER 9-1-1847 Lancaster Co., PA. married Mary WESTERHOLT/D; the son of Frederick C. ULMER 12-4-1815 place unknown, but maybe Germany, married Susanna GRAMM (KAMM?) born PA. My problem is this: I can't find Fred C. ULMER, Junior or Senior, in the 1850 Lancaster Co., PA census. I do find Christian F. Ulmer, the son of Christian F. Ulmer, with a brother Jacob Ulmer (just like there is supposed to be) and the wife/mother's name of Susanna. The census dates, and given ages are correct. The junior / senior relationship is correct. The mother's name is correct. The brother Jacob is correct. The location is correct. HOW DO I GO ABOUT TO PROVE THAT THESE CHRISTIAN F. ULMERS ARE MY FREDERICK C. ULMERS? This time period is also at the end of the times when many Europeans have Church / Saint's names first, followed by the Given names (their middle name) by which they were called, and many instances are found in documents by their middle names (excepting church documents, of course). What would you do? What should I do? I can know the ship that Christian F. senior came to the US on if I can claim him as my Frederick C., and then I can go to Europe to start hunting. Oh well, anyway.......... LOVELESS FAMILY (me) Rex W. ULMER Kansas 1961, son of Thelma M. LOVELESS 1937 Kansas, married Harold W. ULMER; daughter of Alvin Wight LOVELESS 1909 Kansas married Verna Belle BASS; son of Edmund Franklin LOVELESS 2-17-1887 Kansas married Henrietta Wight; son of Franklin Amos LOVELESS 2-14-1863 Iowa married Emma Louise LeLIEVRE; John Amos LOVELESS 3-8-1837 Trumbull Co., Ohio married Catherine Sherman 1836 Saumonauk, LaSalle Co., Illinois; the son of John LOVELESS 1808 New York married Sarah / Sally -?- 1808 New York. I'm having difficulty determining which John this is. I rec'd this info. per the 1850 Kendall Co., Illinois census. John and Sarah's children were: John Amos 1837 Mary Ann @1840 Horace @1845 By 1861, I suspect that the family had met some disaster or disease. John Amos married in 1857, and had a dau. who died young and Milton L. LOVELESS whose family is in the Topeka KS area. John Amos letters home from the Civil War only mention Catherine and her family - father, brothers, mother, family neighbors, but nothing about his folks / family. Does anyone recognize this family? Does anyone have a John LOVELESS from NY who dissapeared thru eastern Ohio? ALL MY FAMILY SURNAMES I AM RESEARCHING: ULMER LOVELESS NEWCOM WESTERHOLD/T GRAMM BASS WIGHT HAMMER HESSELGESSER WHITE