Hmmm. I have a "jake" somewhere in my Surginer line and they came by way of MS I believe. I am in the middle of moving, so I will have to wait to check on this. I have some other questions regarding my particular Surginer line, as well, such as Steve or Steven Surginer. I'm trying to figure out if my S.S. Surginer is the same as the S.S. that is found on the web page listings. Kay Shock _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com