From: "mcculley" <[email protected]> > I am wondering if anyone has the PR´S for Beccles. > I am looking for any possible births between 1831 and 1839 to > William and Hannah WARREN > I have Hannah´s death in 1841. Unfortunately no GRO registration > has been found for William´s death although I have found a record > of his death in the Ipswich Journal and therefore know he did die > 19th January 1844. It seems important for me to find out the cause > of death. > It has been suggested I purchase death certificate for that time in > Loddon, Norfolk which I see is only on the other side of the > river. > I am also wondering if there is any record of his burial in the > Burial Index. The family were well educated so I am sure there would > be a record somewhere. The thought has occurred to me that it may be > a case of suicide and therefore hushed up although wondered if there > would then be an inquest.> As far as I am aware, suicide cases were not "hushed up", as you put it, even in the 1840s, no matter how well educated or well-off the family were. Indeed, if he was well known it's more likely to be have been reported! If it was a suicide, then there would have had to be an inquest which should have been reported in a local newspaper somewhere. Nor was it normally possible to bury someone without the death being recorded. FreeBMD has a record of a William Warren who died at Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, in the June quarter of 1844 (vol 13, page 311). This could be a possible if there was some reason for the death being registered late. Equally, the one at Loddon could also be a possible, though it's across the Suffolk-Norfolk county border and even later. However, I note that the notice in the Ipswich Journal to which you refer says that William Warren, "wheelwright of this place", died at Beccles on 19th January 1844, aged 49. That being the case, unless whoever inserted the death notice was lying - and it has been known - it seems unlikely that either of the two above records were for him. The 19th Century British Newspapers website (the older Gale CenGage one, not the more recent site) also has on 24 February 1844 a largish notice in the Ipswich Journal advertising the sale of William Warren's property in Smallgate Street, Beccles, "late the property of Mr William Warren, gigmaker and wheelwright, deceased." There is a description of the property and its value, plus below is another notice advising any debtors or creditors to contact solicitors. Identical notices appeared in the same newspaper on 2 March 1844. A further notice on 30 March advertised the sale of William Warren's household effects, bed and table linen and a pony trap, etc. William Warren also appears as a wheelwright in Smallgate St, Beccles, in Pigot's Directory of Suffolk 1839 at www.historicaldirectories.org It is always possible that for some reason his death record didn't make it to the GRO, which is why it's certainly a good idea to ask if anyone can look at the Beccles PRs. In the early days of civil registration there were missing entries, but that was more common with births rather than marriages and deaths. Personally, I think that if he had committed suicide there would have been an inquest report since he was obviously a well-known tradesman in the town. Things like that couldn't be hushed up even in those days - that is a bit of a conscpiracy theory! -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Thank you very much Roy for your comments. The Loddon certificate which I have ordered is March qtr 1844 which I thought may be a possibility. If it is not, I have run out of ideas! It seems strange that there would be no record of his death especially as it was so well reported in the newspaper. I have contacted Lowestoft record office to see if they may have a missing link. Many thanks again Marj. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 9:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Warren Family From: "mcculley" <[email protected]> > I am wondering if anyone has the PR´S for Beccles. > I am looking for any possible births between 1831 and 1839 to > William and Hannah WARREN > I have Hannah´s death in 1841. Unfortunately no GRO registration > has been found for William´s death although I have found a record > of his death in the Ipswich Journal and therefore know he did die > 19th January 1844. It seems important for me to find out the cause > of death. > It has been suggested I purchase death certificate for that time in > Loddon, Norfolk which I see is only on the other side of the > river. > I am also wondering if there is any record of his burial in the > Burial Index. The family were well educated so I am sure there would > be a record somewhere. The thought has occurred to me that it may be > a case of suicide and therefore hushed up although wondered if there > would then be an inquest.> As far as I am aware, suicide cases were not "hushed up", as you put it, even in the 1840s, no matter how well educated or well-off the family were. Indeed, if he was well known it's more likely to be have been reported! If it was a suicide, then there would have had to be an inquest which should have been reported in a local newspaper somewhere. Nor was it normally possible to bury someone without the death being recorded. FreeBMD has a record of a William Warren who died at Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, in the June quarter of 1844 (vol 13, page 311). This could be a possible if there was some reason for the death being registered late. Equally, the one at Loddon could also be a possible, though it's across the Suffolk-Norfolk county border and even later. However, I note that the notice in the Ipswich Journal to which you refer says that William Warren, "wheelwright of this place", died at Beccles on 19th January 1844, aged 49. That being the case, unless whoever inserted the death notice was lying - and it has been known - it seems unlikely that either of the two above records were for him. The 19th Century British Newspapers website (the older Gale CenGage one, not the more recent site) also has on 24 February 1844 a largish notice in the Ipswich Journal advertising the sale of William Warren's property in Smallgate Street, Beccles, "late the property of Mr William Warren, gigmaker and wheelwright, deceased." There is a description of the property and its value, plus below is another notice advising any debtors or creditors to contact solicitors. Identical notices appeared in the same newspaper on 2 March 1844. A further notice on 30 March advertised the sale of William Warren's household effects, bed and table linen and a pony trap, etc. William Warren also appears as a wheelwright in Smallgate St, Beccles, in Pigot's Directory of Suffolk 1839 at www.historicaldirectories.org It is always possible that for some reason his death record didn't make it to the GRO, which is why it's certainly a good idea to ask if anyone can look at the Beccles PRs. In the early days of civil registration there were missing entries, but that was more common with births rather than marriages and deaths. Personally, I think that if he had committed suicide there would have been an inquest report since he was obviously a well-known tradesman in the town. Things like that couldn't be hushed up even in those days - that is a bit of a conscpiracy theory! -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: "mcculley" <[email protected]> > Thank you very much Roy for your comments. > The Loddon certificate which I have ordered is March qtr 1844 which > I thought may be a possibility. > If it is not, I have run out of ideas! It seems strange that there > would be no record of his death especially as it was so well reported in > the newspaper. > I have contacted Lowestoft record office to see if they may have a > missing link. > Many thanks again > Marj.> Sorry, Marj, I got them the wrong way round! It was the Bury St Edmunds death which was the later one in the June quarter. As you will know if you have looked at Genuki, in 1844 Beccles was in Wangford Registration District which was abolished in 1935, Beccles and Bungay being sub-districts. The registers would now appear to be at the Suffolk, Lowestoft, register office, as you say, and it's an excellent idea to contact them to see if there is a record there. It as, as I said, just possible that for some reason a copy of William Warren's death never found its way to the GRO. Especially in the early days of civil registration, such things did happen. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Marj Sorry, I hadn't read Roy's response to you when I sent my email. I see he has written the death notice details on his. In case it helps these below are the likely baptisms for my family in Colchester. This William's baptism is only a few years from your William's birth year and I noted a Hannah Warren was a school mistress, aged 30 in 1841 in Lexden. Not sure whether she was married. Maybe no connection but you never know. I looked through the Beccles baptisms for alternative spellings such as ORRIN but there was nothing that may have even sounded like Warren. Baptisms at Colchester St Giles WARREN Sarah d/o William & Sarah 26 Apr 1779 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN James of William Sarah 18 Feb 1791 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN Thomas of William Sarah 18 Feb 1791 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN William of William Sarah 18 Feb 1791 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN John of William Sarah 29 Jul 1794 bap Colchester St Giles