That's an interesting point Roy and Edie. There is a Wilson family that I keep returning to in Blundeston. There are 4 sons and a few daughters. I must admit that I haven't looked at this line for a couple of years, so it may be worth further investigation to see if anything new has turned up. These are the notes that I have made over the years. Somebody may see something I have missed. Notes for Helen Wilson So we have John [1] born 1796 His son John [2] born 1821 And his son John [3] born 1843 What follows is quite complex but there again isn't all family history research. The 1841 census for Blundeston HO107/1029/4 page 4 West End shows a John [1] (born 1796) Mary (born 1801) James 15 = 1826 Charlotte 14 = 1827 Elizabeth 12 = 1829 Jacob 9 = 1832 Charles 5 = 1836 not far away HO107/1029/4 page 10 Mill Street is a John Wilson Jun'r [2] age shown as 15 Maria 20 Elizabeth 6 months I am assuming that John [2] jun'r is the son of John [1] and Mary as there is no other Wilson's in the village and he has referred to himself as Jun'r implying that he is John son of John. Now the 2 daughters Charlotte and Elizabeth were 14 and 12 respectively and it is possible that one of them may have been widowed in the 1860's and then had an illegitimate daughter and trying to find or prove this would be very difficult There have been many leads that I have followed over the years but all have drawn a blank in that they have either died or married somebody else and have been found on the 1901 census with that person. The 1851 census HO 107/1805 415 The Street, Blundeston shows the family as follows. WILSON John [2] 30 Sfk Blundeston = 1821 WILSON Maria 33 Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 WILSON Elizabeth 10 Sfk Blundeston = 1841 WILSON John [3] 7 Sfk Blundeston = 1843 WILSON William 6 Sfk Blundeston = 1845 WILSON Frederick 3 Sfk Blundeston = 1848 WILSON James 1 Sfk Blundeston = 1850 In the1861 census RG9/1188 Folio 48 Page 12 High St Blundeston John WILSON [2] Sfk Blundeston = 1821 Maria WILSON Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 John WILSON [3] aged 18 a fisherman Sfk Blundeston = 1843 Frederick 14. Sfk Blundeston =1847 James 11. Sfk Blundeston = 1850 Ann Maria 9. Sfk Blundeston = 1852 Charlotte 4. Sfk Blundeston = 1857 Clara 2. Sfk Blundeston = 1859 Eldest daughter Elizabeth is a servant in Yarmouth RG9/1191 folio 168 page 8 Seven years later on July 21st 1868 @ Blundeston John WILSON aged 25 married a widow named Susan WARD formerly BUCK aged 29. Susan, Johns wife was buried November 19th 1870 St Mary, Blundeston aged 32. There appears to have been no children from this marriage, as none appear to be living with John or his parents in Blundeston, or her parents. Susan (BUCK) had married Samuel WARD March qtr 1862 registered @ Yarmouth 4B page 12. There is then the death of a Samuel WARD December qtr 1866 registered @ Mutford 4A page 473? Aged 25 The burial of Samuel is recorded as 22nd May 1866 at St Mary, Blundeston 1871 census RG10/1781 Folio 8 Page 8 John WILSON [2] Sfk Blundeston = 1821 Maria WILSON Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 John 28 is a widower he was married less than 2 years 4 months Frederick 24 James 21 George 8 shown as son but possible the son of Elizabeth Clara died in 1861 GRO reference Dec 1861 Mutford 4a 418 Anna Maria and Charlotte are not at home. Ann Maria Wilson was born in 1851and appears with her parents in the 1861 census, In the 1871 she is an unmarried servant in Gorleston, Yarmouth RG10/1789 folio 132 page 10. In the 1881 she is still unmarried and a servant in Gorleston RG11/1908 folio 52 page 24. In 1891 Ann has married Charles TURNER a bricklayer and is living in Lowestoft RG12/1492 folio 15 page 18 they have a daughter Maud aged 1. In 1901 Ann is still living in Lowestoft with Charles. RG13/1803 folio 14 page 19 and have another daughter Ethel born in 1894 There appears to have been no illegitimate children but she could have had a child. Charlotte Wilson was born in 1856 registered at Mutford Dec qtr 1856 Vol 4a page 626 appears with her parents in the 1861 census. She doesn't seem to appear in either the 1871 or 1881 census. In the 1891 census there is a Charlotte WILSON aged 29 (puts birth 1862) born Blundeston as House Keeper in home of Charles BOYCE a widowed fisherman aged 39 in Blundeston RG12/1495 folio 51 page 14. I can find no other Charlotte Wilson born in the Blundeston area around 1862 Also there as a visitor is an Alice WILSON aged 9 born in Blundeston. Is she Charlotte's daughter? Neither Charlotte or Alice appear in the 1901 census at least I can't find them. St Mary, Blundeston shows the burial of Alice age 17 on September 28th 1899 When we get to the 1881 census RG11/1905 Folio 60 Page 16 John has remarried with a daughter Lily May who is aged 2 and son Sidney aged 7 months. he still lives in the High St Blundeston. So John was on his own from November 1870 until February 1877 when he remarried, so did he have a fling or two and possibly have an illegitimate daughter? If so what was her name?. There was an Elizabeth Wilson living not far away in the same street but she was the daughter of Frederick Wilson and Agnes Mary Pye formerly Butterfunt. Frederick was the brother of John. Frederick and Agnes had another daughter named Florence who appears in the 1891 census in the James and Ellen Marjoram household in Lowestoft. Florence is shown as "Sister in Law" Ellen Marjoram used to be Eleanor Elizabeth BUTTERFUNT and she died in 1898, so she wasn't an Ellen Wilson who left James to marry my Gt. Grandfather. In the 1881 census there was a 7 year-old granddaughter named Ada BENSLEY living with John's parents in the Street Blundeston I don't know who her mother was but she was still in Yarmouth in 1901. Further to Elizabeth Mumford I have found that on the 1841 census Elizabeth Wilson was the 6 months old daughter of John and Maria Wilson of Blundeston, In 1851 she was at home aged 10. In 1861 she was a servant in the home of Mary Brikett in Marine Passage, Yarmouth. RG9/1191 folio 168 page 8 In 1871 census Elizabeth MUMFORD appears to be the right age and is apparently listed as the eldest child. I can find no reference to Elizabeth Mumford /Wilson after the 1871 census. There was the marriage of an Elizabeth MUNFORD in the Blofield registration district in Sep 1878 but haven't checked it out Vol 4b page 337 Could it be possible that Elizabeth had an illegitimate daughter? There is a Helen registered birth in the Dec qtr of 1859 at Mutford and I must admit that I haven't followed this up as she would have been 41 when her 1st child wad born and I can't trace her on any of the census. There was one other John who was 13 in the 1871 census and lived in Carlton Colville but I feel that he is too young to have been the father but it is possible if Helen was born six or seven years later This then leaves a couple of possibilities Helen was illegitimate, John was the father but her mother said he was dead. Possible The 1st Susan was the mother, but if she was why didn't John or her parents look after it? Unlikely John wasn't her father and I have the wrong family. Most Probable Another theory is that Helen was perhaps the result of an affair between a fisherman and a Scottish fisher girl who worked the herring fleets along the east coast at that time. I've been unable to find any other John WILSON in the area but the whole roll could be reversed in that John was the fisherman from Scotland and the mother from Norfolk/Suffolk Michael

Hi Michael, I have looked but not found much to help you either, however I did have one thought. What if John was the middle name of her father and that is what he was known as. I have had a few relatives that have gone by their middle names and they have been found in the census with that name. So for example: George John, Thomas John. It is just a thought anyway. The other one is perhaps Helen was her middle name too and her first name was Elizabeth, but she prefered Helen instead. I will keep looking and see if I can find anything else. Paula On 26 September 2012 17:21, Michael <[email protected]> wrote: > That's an interesting point Roy and Edie. There is a Wilson family that > I keep returning to in Blundeston. There are 4 sons and a few daughters. > I must admit that I haven't looked at this line for a couple of years, > so it may be worth further investigation to see if anything new has > turned up. > > These are the notes that I have made over the years. Somebody may see > something I have missed. > > Notes for Helen Wilson > > So we have John [1] born 1796 > His son John [2] born 1821 > And his son John [3] born 1843 > > What follows is quite complex but there again isn't all family history > research. > > The 1841 census for Blundeston HO107/1029/4 page 4 West End shows a > John [1] (born 1796) > Mary (born 1801) > James 15 = 1826 > Charlotte 14 = 1827 > Elizabeth 12 = 1829 > Jacob 9 = 1832 > Charles 5 = 1836 > > not far away HO107/1029/4 page 10 Mill Street is a > John Wilson Jun'r [2] age shown as 15 > Maria 20 > Elizabeth 6 months > > I am assuming that John [2] jun'r is the son of John [1] and Mary as > there is no other Wilson's in the village and he has referred to himself > as Jun'r implying that he is John son of John. > > Now the 2 daughters Charlotte and Elizabeth were 14 and 12 respectively > and it is possible that one of them may have been widowed in the 1860's > and then had an illegitimate daughter and trying to find or prove this > would be very difficult > > There have been many leads that I have followed over the years but all > have drawn a blank in that they have either died or married somebody > else and have been found on the 1901 census with that person. > > The 1851 census HO 107/1805 415 The Street, Blundeston shows the family > as follows. > > WILSON John [2] 30 Sfk Blundeston = 1821 > WILSON Maria 33 Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 > WILSON Elizabeth 10 Sfk Blundeston = 1841 > WILSON John [3] 7 Sfk Blundeston = 1843 > WILSON William 6 Sfk Blundeston = 1845 > WILSON Frederick 3 Sfk Blundeston = 1848 > WILSON James 1 Sfk Blundeston = 1850 > > In the1861 census RG9/1188 Folio 48 Page 12 High St Blundeston > > John WILSON [2] Sfk Blundeston = 1821 > Maria WILSON Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 > John WILSON [3] aged 18 a fisherman Sfk Blundeston = 1843 > Frederick 14. Sfk Blundeston =1847 > James 11. Sfk Blundeston = 1850 > Ann Maria 9. Sfk Blundeston = 1852 > Charlotte 4. Sfk Blundeston = 1857 > Clara 2. Sfk Blundeston = 1859 > > Eldest daughter Elizabeth is a servant in Yarmouth RG9/1191 folio 168 > page 8 > > Seven years later on July 21st 1868 @ Blundeston John WILSON aged 25 > married a widow named Susan WARD formerly BUCK aged 29. > Susan, Johns wife was buried November 19th 1870 St Mary, Blundeston aged > 32. > There appears to have been no children from this marriage, as none > appear to be living with John or his parents in Blundeston, or her parents. > > Susan (BUCK) had married Samuel WARD March qtr 1862 registered @ > Yarmouth 4B page 12. There is then the death of a Samuel WARD December > qtr 1866 registered @ Mutford 4A page 473? Aged 25 The burial of Samuel > is recorded as 22nd May 1866 at St Mary, Blundeston > > 1871 census RG10/1781 Folio 8 Page 8 > John WILSON [2] Sfk Blundeston = 1821 > Maria WILSON Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 > John 28 is a widower he was married less than 2 years 4 months > Frederick 24 > James 21 > George 8 shown as son but possible the son of Elizabeth > > Clara died in 1861 GRO reference Dec 1861 Mutford 4a 418 > > > Anna Maria and Charlotte are not at home. > > Ann Maria Wilson was born in 1851and appears with her parents in the > 1861 census, > In the 1871 she is an unmarried servant in Gorleston, Yarmouth RG10/1789 > folio 132 page 10. > In the 1881 she is still unmarried and a servant in Gorleston RG11/1908 > folio 52 page 24. > In 1891 Ann has married Charles TURNER a bricklayer and is living in > Lowestoft RG12/1492 folio 15 page 18 they have a daughter Maud aged 1. > In 1901 Ann is still living in Lowestoft with Charles. RG13/1803 folio > 14 page 19 and have another daughter Ethel born in 1894 > There appears to have been no illegitimate children but she could have > had a child. > > Charlotte Wilson was born in 1856 registered at Mutford Dec qtr 1856 Vol > 4a page 626 appears with her parents in the 1861 census. > She doesn't seem to appear in either the 1871 or 1881 census. > In the 1891 census there is a Charlotte WILSON aged 29 (puts birth 1862) > born Blundeston as House Keeper in home of Charles BOYCE a widowed > fisherman aged 39 in Blundeston RG12/1495 folio 51 page 14. > I can find no other Charlotte Wilson born in the Blundeston area around 1862 > Also there as a visitor is an Alice WILSON aged 9 born in Blundeston. Is > she Charlotte's daughter? > Neither Charlotte or Alice appear in the 1901 census at least I can't > find them. > St Mary, Blundeston shows the burial of Alice age 17 on September 28th 1899 > > When we get to the 1881 census RG11/1905 Folio 60 Page 16 John has > remarried with a daughter Lily May who is aged 2 and son Sidney aged 7 > months. he still lives in the High St Blundeston. > > So John was on his own from November 1870 until February 1877 when he > remarried, so did he have a fling or two and possibly have an > illegitimate daughter? > If so what was her name?. > > There was an Elizabeth Wilson living not far away in the same street but > she was the daughter of Frederick Wilson and Agnes Mary Pye formerly > Butterfunt. Frederick was the brother of John. > > Frederick and Agnes had another daughter named Florence who appears in > the 1891 census in the James and Ellen Marjoram household in Lowestoft. > Florence is shown as "Sister in Law" Ellen Marjoram used to be Eleanor > Elizabeth BUTTERFUNT and she died in 1898, so she wasn't an Ellen Wilson > who left James to marry my Gt. Grandfather. > > In the 1881 census there was a 7 year-old granddaughter named Ada > BENSLEY living with John's parents in the Street Blundeston I don't know > who her mother was but she was still in Yarmouth in 1901. > > Further to Elizabeth Mumford > I have found that on the 1841 census Elizabeth Wilson was the 6 months > old daughter of John and Maria Wilson of Blundeston, > In 1851 she was at home aged 10. > In 1861 she was a servant in the home of Mary Brikett in Marine Passage, > Yarmouth. RG9/1191 folio 168 page 8 > In 1871 census Elizabeth MUMFORD appears to be the right age and is > apparently listed as the eldest child. I can find no reference to > Elizabeth Mumford /Wilson after the 1871 census. > There was the marriage of an Elizabeth MUNFORD in the Blofield > registration district in Sep 1878 but haven't checked it out Vol 4b page > 337 > > Could it be possible that Elizabeth had an illegitimate daughter? > > There is a Helen registered birth in the Dec qtr of 1859 at Mutford and > I must admit that I haven't followed this up as she would have been 41 > when her 1st child wad born and I can't trace her on any of the census. > > There was one other John who was 13 in the 1871 census and lived in > Carlton Colville but I feel that he is too young to have been the father > but it is possible if Helen was born six or seven years later > > This then leaves a couple of possibilities > > Helen was illegitimate, John was the father but her mother said he was > dead. Possible > > The 1st Susan was the mother, but if she was why didn't John or her > parents look after it? Unlikely > > John wasn't her father and I have the wrong family. Most Probable > > Another theory is that Helen was perhaps the result of an affair between > a fisherman and a Scottish fisher girl who worked the herring fleets > along the east coast at that time. > > I've been unable to find any other John WILSON in the area but the whole > roll could be reversed in that John was the fisherman from Scotland and > the mother from Norfolk/Suffolk > > Michael > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is a more unsavoury solution Michael. this one I have in my own family as recent as my uncle/cousin. My Aunt Annie was his mother to my grandafther. h e was her only child, she marreid a much older man. So unfortunatley you have that avenue as well. Not vey nice, but factual. Have you obtained any certificates of birth to see if any of them match that family headed by John 1796. Could be a granddaughter of his had a illegimate child. As I said not something we would like to entertain as happened in our family but all my grandfthers daughters were treated in the same way. We also had two generations of gypsies in our family. That is not too say, that is how Gypsies on the whole behave, as it can happen in any family. Rarely I would think. Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] bastardy orders > That's an interesting point Roy and Edie. There is a Wilson family that > I keep returning to in Blundeston. There are 4 sons and a few daughters. > I must admit that I haven't looked at this line for a couple of years, > so it may be worth further investigation to see if anything new has > turned up. > > These are the notes that I have made over the years. Somebody may see > something I have missed. > > Notes for Helen Wilson > > So we have John [1] born 1796 > His son John [2] born 1821 > And his son John [3] born 1843 > > What follows is quite complex but there again isn't all family history > research. > > The 1841 census for Blundeston HO107/1029/4 page 4 West End shows a > John [1] (born 1796) > Mary (born 1801) > James 15 = 1826 > Charlotte 14 = 1827 > Elizabeth 12 = 1829 > Jacob 9 = 1832 > Charles 5 = 1836 > > not far away HO107/1029/4 page 10 Mill Street is a > John Wilson Jun'r [2] age shown as 15 > Maria 20 > Elizabeth 6 months > > I am assuming that John [2] jun'r is the son of John [1] and Mary as > there is no other Wilson's in the village and he has referred to himself > as Jun'r implying that he is John son of John. > > Now the 2 daughters Charlotte and Elizabeth were 14 and 12 respectively > and it is possible that one of them may have been widowed in the 1860's > and then had an illegitimate daughter and trying to find or prove this > would be very difficult > > There have been many leads that I have followed over the years but all > have drawn a blank in that they have either died or married somebody > else and have been found on the 1901 census with that person. > > The 1851 census HO 107/1805 415 The Street, Blundeston shows the family > as follows. > > WILSON John [2] 30 Sfk Blundeston = 1821 > WILSON Maria 33 Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 > WILSON Elizabeth 10 Sfk Blundeston = 1841 > WILSON John [3] 7 Sfk Blundeston = 1843 > WILSON William 6 Sfk Blundeston = 1845 > WILSON Frederick 3 Sfk Blundeston = 1848 > WILSON James 1 Sfk Blundeston = 1850 > > In the1861 census RG9/1188 Folio 48 Page 12 High St Blundeston > > John WILSON [2] Sfk Blundeston = 1821 > Maria WILSON Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 > John WILSON [3] aged 18 a fisherman Sfk Blundeston = 1843 > Frederick 14. Sfk Blundeston =1847 > James 11. Sfk Blundeston = 1850 > Ann Maria 9. Sfk Blundeston = 1852 > Charlotte 4. Sfk Blundeston = 1857 > Clara 2. Sfk Blundeston = 1859 > > Eldest daughter Elizabeth is a servant in Yarmouth RG9/1191 folio 168 > page 8 > > Seven years later on July 21st 1868 @ Blundeston John WILSON aged 25 > married a widow named Susan WARD formerly BUCK aged 29. > Susan, Johns wife was buried November 19th 1870 St Mary, Blundeston aged > 32. > There appears to have been no children from this marriage, as none > appear to be living with John or his parents in Blundeston, or her > parents. > > Susan (BUCK) had married Samuel WARD March qtr 1862 registered @ > Yarmouth 4B page 12. There is then the death of a Samuel WARD December > qtr 1866 registered @ Mutford 4A page 473? Aged 25 The burial of Samuel > is recorded as 22nd May 1866 at St Mary, Blundeston > > 1871 census RG10/1781 Folio 8 Page 8 > John WILSON [2] Sfk Blundeston = 1821 > Maria WILSON Nfk Forncett St Mary = 1818 > John 28 is a widower he was married less than 2 years 4 months > Frederick 24 > James 21 > George 8 shown as son but possible the son of Elizabeth > > Clara died in 1861 GRO reference Dec 1861 Mutford 4a 418 > > > Anna Maria and Charlotte are not at home. > > Ann Maria Wilson was born in 1851and appears with her parents in the > 1861 census, > In the 1871 she is an unmarried servant in Gorleston, Yarmouth RG10/1789 > folio 132 page 10. > In the 1881 she is still unmarried and a servant in Gorleston RG11/1908 > folio 52 page 24. > In 1891 Ann has married Charles TURNER a bricklayer and is living in > Lowestoft RG12/1492 folio 15 page 18 they have a daughter Maud aged 1. > In 1901 Ann is still living in Lowestoft with Charles. RG13/1803 folio > 14 page 19 and have another daughter Ethel born in 1894 > There appears to have been no illegitimate children but she could have > had a child. > > Charlotte Wilson was born in 1856 registered at Mutford Dec qtr 1856 Vol > 4a page 626 appears with her parents in the 1861 census. > She doesn't seem to appear in either the 1871 or 1881 census. > In the 1891 census there is a Charlotte WILSON aged 29 (puts birth 1862) > born Blundeston as House Keeper in home of Charles BOYCE a widowed > fisherman aged 39 in Blundeston RG12/1495 folio 51 page 14. > I can find no other Charlotte Wilson born in the Blundeston area around > 1862 > Also there as a visitor is an Alice WILSON aged 9 born in Blundeston. Is > she Charlotte's daughter? > Neither Charlotte or Alice appear in the 1901 census at least I can't > find them. > St Mary, Blundeston shows the burial of Alice age 17 on September 28th > 1899 > > When we get to the 1881 census RG11/1905 Folio 60 Page 16 John has > remarried with a daughter Lily May who is aged 2 and son Sidney aged 7 > months. he still lives in the High St Blundeston. > > So John was on his own from November 1870 until February 1877 when he > remarried, so did he have a fling or two and possibly have an > illegitimate daughter? > If so what was her name?. > > There was an Elizabeth Wilson living not far away in the same street but > she was the daughter of Frederick Wilson and Agnes Mary Pye formerly > Butterfunt. Frederick was the brother of John. > > Frederick and Agnes had another daughter named Florence who appears in > the 1891 census in the James and Ellen Marjoram household in Lowestoft. > Florence is shown as "Sister in Law" Ellen Marjoram used to be Eleanor > Elizabeth BUTTERFUNT and she died in 1898, so she wasn't an Ellen Wilson > who left James to marry my Gt. Grandfather. > > In the 1881 census there was a 7 year-old granddaughter named Ada > BENSLEY living with John's parents in the Street Blundeston I don't know > who her mother was but she was still in Yarmouth in 1901. > > Further to Elizabeth Mumford > I have found that on the 1841 census Elizabeth Wilson was the 6 months > old daughter of John and Maria Wilson of Blundeston, > In 1851 she was at home aged 10. > In 1861 she was a servant in the home of Mary Brikett in Marine Passage, > Yarmouth. RG9/1191 folio 168 page 8 > In 1871 census Elizabeth MUMFORD appears to be the right age and is > apparently listed as the eldest child. I can find no reference to > Elizabeth Mumford /Wilson after the 1871 census. > There was the marriage of an Elizabeth MUNFORD in the Blofield > registration district in Sep 1878 but haven't checked it out Vol 4b page > 337 > > Could it be possible that Elizabeth had an illegitimate daughter? > > There is a Helen registered birth in the Dec qtr of 1859 at Mutford and > I must admit that I haven't followed this up as she would have been 41 > when her 1st child wad born and I can't trace her on any of the census. > > There was one other John who was 13 in the 1871 census and lived in > Carlton Colville but I feel that he is too young to have been the father > but it is possible if Helen was born six or seven years later > > This then leaves a couple of possibilities > > Helen was illegitimate, John was the father but her mother said he was > dead. Possible > > The 1st Susan was the mother, but if she was why didn't John or her > parents look after it? Unlikely > > John wasn't her father and I have the wrong family. Most Probable > > Another theory is that Helen was perhaps the result of an affair between > a fisherman and a Scottish fisher girl who worked the herring fleets > along the east coast at that time. > > I've been unable to find any other John WILSON in the area but the whole > roll could be reversed in that John was the fisherman from Scotland and > the mother from Norfolk/Suffolk > > Michael > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message