Hallo listers I have a bombshell in following a younger sibling ,Marshall, of my grandfather I found him on the above census living in Camberwell London evidently a tram driver. He is still married to Rose nee goldbold with a son Harold victor 13 years old at school. So far so good then another separate entry for Harold in an industrial school east ham London his birth place was right whereas in the other entry it was given as ham. Any ideas as to what went on? What is an industrial school and why has he disappeared from then on I cant find a trace of in any record after that. Regards G P Crawford Sent from my iPod

Hi Graham The 1911 schedule is in the hand of the householder or whoever he coerced into doing it , as Marshall signed it in the same hand I would say he filled it in If you check the writing it looks to me as if Marshall has entered Harold Victor CRAWFORD son age 13 and left the rest blank, perhaps misunderstanding the instructions and Harold was not actually at home on census night The words school and place of birth Peckham appear to be in a lighter, different hand, perhaps the enumerators who would also have added the word Worker for Marshall I have come across several 1911 schedules where the parents have entered all their children, even those who had died before the census, they simply misunderstood the rules for filling it in and the enumerator had not noticed (as they were not transcribed they would not have examined them as much as if they had) For Industrial Schools see http://www.hiddenlives.org.uk/articles/raggedschool.html You will see there were four categories under which a boy or girl could be placed in one, the fourth seems to be the one that may fit your lad Any child under the age of fourteen whose parents declare him to be beyond their control.(5) Like you I cannot find a positive sighting after 1911 although he could have passed away as just plain Harold CRAWFORD of which there are several Or he could have changed his name completely Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 04/09/2012 06:47, [email protected] wrote: > Hallo listers > > I have a bombshell in following a younger sibling ,Marshall, of my > grandfather I found him on the above census living in Camberwell > London evidently a tram driver. He is still married to Rose nee > goldbold with a son Harold victor 13 years old at school. So far so > good then another separate entry for Harold in an industrial school > east ham London his birth place was right whereas in the other entry > it was given as ham. Any ideas as to what went on? What is an > industrial school and why has he disappeared from then on I cant find > a trace of in any record after that. > > Regards > > G P Crawford

My greatgrandfather's siblings were sent to the School in Epsom after they were orphaned in 1858. I would say that it was a better option than the workhouse as at least one of the boys learned a trade of bootmaking. I would be interested in the answer to the second part of your question as one of the boys disappeared also. We assumed that either he was adopted or that he joined the armed forces and became a nameless statistic. Philip Maddocks ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:47 AM Subject: [SFK-UK] 1911 census > Hallo listers > > I have a bombshell in following a younger sibling ,Marshall, of my > grandfather I found him on the above census living in Camberwell London > evidently a tram driver. He is still married to Rose nee goldbold with a > son Harold victor 13 years old at school. So far so good then another > separate entry for Harold in an industrial school east ham London his > birth place was right whereas in the other entry it was given as ham. > Any ideas as to what went on? > What is an industrial school and why has he disappeared from then on I > cant find a trace of in any record after that. > > Regards > > G P Crawford > > Sent from my iPod > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >