One of my ancestors was buried at Bury St Edmunds in Dec 1726. Could someone over the next month or so get me a photo of the churchyard , which might have contained early 18thC burials , for my files. REF: Sfk Burial CD: Burial 10 Dec 1726 Shelly VESEY ( alias Wangford) - age abt 25 Bury St Edmunds , St James Note St James became  St Edmundsbury Cathedral in 1914. Checked for Gravestones : Vesey or Wangford surnames at Bury St. Edmunds, St. James in the Charles Partridge MIs - no entries found.

David If you google the great churchyard Bury St Edmunds and then go to Images, there are many photos there. The Bury Past and Present Society also have black and white photos at http://www.burypastandpresent.org.uk/jarman-captions/abbey/churchyard.shtml . I see that you researched the St James records so I am presuming that you have seen the entry in the burial register for that parish. If not the Great Churchyard is between the parish church of St James and the parish church of St Mary so I am wondering if the burial was recorded at St Mary's. It does not appear in the National Burial Index although some earlier entries for Suffolk are missing so that could be the reason. Brian -----Original Message----- From: David Vesey <veseybrown@sympatico.ca> Sent: 05 December 2018 00:13 To: suffolk-l@rootsweb.com Subject: [SFK-UK] Bury St Edmunds - St James One of my ancestors was buried at Bury St Edmunds in Dec 1726. Could someone over the next month or so get me a photo of the churchyard , which might have contained early 18thC burials , for my files. REF: Sfk Burial CD: Burial 10 Dec 1726 Shelly VESEY ( alias Wangford) - age abt 25 Bury St Edmunds , St James Note St James became St Edmundsbury Cathedral in 1914. Checked for Gravestones : Vesey or Wangford surnames at Bury St. Edmunds, St. James in the Charles Partridge MIs - no entries found. _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/suffolk@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Someone in my tree has a occupation listed as “landed proprietor” in the 1861 census and I’m wondering what that is. In the census, he is living with his brother who is a farmer. I’m assuming that it means that he owned land and was living off the proceeds - would that be correct? is there a more precise definition? Thanks Dave

The instructions for the 1851 census was "Persons following no Profession, Trade or calling and holding no public office, but deriving their income chiefly from land, houses, mines, or other real property, from dividends, interest of money, annuities &c. may designate themselves "Landed Proprietor," "Proprietor of Iron Mines," "Proprietor of Houses," "Fund-holder," "Annuitant," &c. as the case may be." I guess that the 1861 census was very similar. Brian -----Original Message----- From: David Hook <davehook@rogers.com> Sent: 12 January 2019 15:08 To: suffolk@rootsweb.com Subject: [SFK-UK] What is a landed proprietor? Someone in my tree has a occupation listed as “landed proprietor” in the 1861 census and I’m wondering what that is. In the census, he is living with his brother who is a farmer. I’m assuming that it means that he owned land and was living off the proceeds - would that be correct? is there a more precise definition? Thanks Dave _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/suffolk@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thanks - that was what I was looking for: a more comprehensive definition with the historical context. Dave > On Jan 12, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Brian Lummis via SUFFOLK <suffolk@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > The instructions for the 1851 census was > > "Persons following no Profession, Trade or calling and holding no public office, but deriving their income chiefly from land, houses, mines, or other real property, from dividends, interest of money, annuities &c. may designate themselves "Landed Proprietor," "Proprietor of Iron Mines," "Proprietor of Houses," "Fund-holder," "Annuitant," &c. as the case may be." > > I guess that the 1861 census was very similar. > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Hook <davehook@rogers.com> > Sent: 12 January 2019 15:08 > To: suffolk@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SFK-UK] What is a landed proprietor? > > > Someone in my tree has a occupation listed as “landed proprietor” in the 1861 census and I’m wondering what that is. > In the census, he is living with his brother who is a farmer. > I’m assuming that it means that he owned land and was living off the proceeds - would that be correct? is there a more precise definition? > > Thanks > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/suffolk@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/suffolk@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Bearing in mind that information given in the census was taken as given by the informant on the schedule No checking was done to verify the details were correct What was his status in 1871, and if relevant check the 1873 return of owners of land Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/01/2019 18:07, David Hook wrote: > Thanks - that was what I was looking for: a more comprehensive definition with the historical context. > > Dave

Nivard If you look at the definition that I gave for the 1851 census you will see that a landed proprietor didn't necessarily have to own land. So he could have an income from another source such as investments or an annuity. Admittedly, in my experience most census entries tend to describe those with investments as having "private means" or "Gentleman" and in the case of annuities, "annuitants", so having land may be correct for the majority of those described as "landed proprietor". Brian. -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> Sent: 12 January 2019 18:55 To: suffolk@rootsweb.com Subject: [SFK-UK] Re: What is a landed proprietor? Bearing in mind that information given in the census was taken as given by the informant on the schedule No checking was done to verify the details were correct What was his status in 1871, and if relevant check the 1873 return of owners of land Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/01/2019 18:07, David Hook wrote: > Thanks - that was what I was looking for: a more comprehensive definition with the historical context. > > Dave _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/suffolk@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Brian I wasn't questioning the definition, or instruction for 1851 that you posted My point being that the information wasn't checked in any way, unless the enumerator knew better, he would accept what was written on the schedule If someone entered his occupation as brain surgeon, the enumerator would accept that, no proof was required or sought Generally speaking the majority of occupations entered in the census are fairly accurate, but being called a landed proprietor did not of itself prove he owned land or property Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/01/2019 19:26, Brian Lummis via SUFFOLK wrote: > Nivard > > If you look at the definition that I gave for the 1851 census you will see > that a landed proprietor didn't necessarily have to own land. So he could > have an income from another source such as investments or an annuity. > Admittedly, in my experience most census entries tend to describe those with > investments as having "private means" or "Gentleman" and in the case of > annuities, "annuitants", so having land may be correct for the majority of > those described as "landed proprietor". > > Brian.

Hi Nivard I realised that you weren't questioning the definition and accept that the enumerator for the most part recorded what he was told. My point was that if he held land he wouldn't necessarily be described as a "landed proprietor" and conversely he could be described as a "landed proprietor" without holding land. So whilst the land tax records would prove that he was a "landed proprietor" as described, the absence of any proof of owning land does not mean that he wasn't a "landed proprietor", as he could qualify by other means. Hope I am not sounding too pedantic. Brian

Not at all Brian I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet ;-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/01/2019 20:24, Brian Lummis via SUFFOLK wrote: > Hi Nivard > > I realised that you weren't questioning the definition and accept that the > enumerator for the most part recorded what he was told. > > My point was that if he held land he wouldn't necessarily be described as a > "landed proprietor" and conversely he could be described as a "landed > proprietor" without holding land. So whilst the land tax records would prove > that he was a "landed proprietor" as described, the absence of any proof of > owning land does not mean that he wasn't a "landed proprietor", as he could > qualify by other means. > > Hope I am not sounding too pedantic. > > Brian

On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:07:52 -0500 David Hook <davehook@rogers.com> wrote: Hello David, >Someone in my tree has a occupation listed as “landed proprietor” in >the 1861 census and I’m wondering what that is. I typed the two words into a search engine. Simply by scanning the resulting snippets I found out what it means. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"