Folks, Every week or so (or whenever the digest gets to about 20 KB), I'm forwarding to the List those posts that have been "gatewayed" from RootsWeb's SUFFOLK Board that might contain information of interest to List subscribers, and here's the current "digest" of such gatewayed posts. If you wish to respond to any of these gatewayed posts, please do so by clicking on the relevant "Message Board URL:" link and NOT by responding either to the list OR to my address as the digest poster. Board posters will not see your List response unless they are also subscribed to the List, and most are not. PLEASE also be careful about responding to any post and inadvertently re-posting the ENTIRE digest to the list! More information on RootsWeb's Boards can be found at: http://boards.RootsWeb.com/boardfaq.aspx#undefined , and the Board "home page" is at: http://boards.rootsweb.com/?o_iid=33216&o_lid=33216 . If you have any questions about the Boards or what the following is, pls contact me off-list at: mailto:SUFFOLK-admin@rootsweb.com . Thanks, Peter SUFFOLK List Admin. -------------------------------------------------- Re: Gowings of Lowestoft Suffolk This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jo_morris Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8304.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi I am descended from Lewis Weston Dillwyn; his brother George m Sarah Ann Gowing, so we definitely have a link. I've recently placed my tree on Ancestry (Dave M's Ancestry) , so hopefully you can see it if there is anything on there that'll help you especially on the Dillwyn side. I am a bit short on the Gowing side, though. Best Wishes Dave Morris -------------------------------------------------- Re: parish records lookups This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: GrahamWalterGooch Surnames: Gooch - Wall Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8609.13/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Kate, My Great Grandfather X 4 Thomas Gooch was born abt 1795 and married a Lucy Wall somewhere in Suffolk; he became a Brewer and was said to have had a brewery in Hailsham Sussex for several years. His son,also named Thomas was married in 1844 to Eliza Titley at the parish church at Trowbridge, County Wiltshire on April 9th 1844. I am trying to find evidence of the marriage between Thomas Gooch and Lucy Wall. -------------------------------------------------- Bastardy record - help needed This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jr_jameson_au Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8638/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Can sks help me understand what the following record means? And if anyone visits the Suffolk Records Office and could extract the details that would be really appreciated. Here's the NAA record of interest, under the heading of "Affiliation and bastardy papers" :- "Examination of Mehitabel Bareham of Clare FL501/7/653 1831 These documents are held at Suffolk Record Office, Bury St Edmunds Branch damaged and defective Contents: Concerning the bastard child soon to be born to her fathered by Charles Jolly of Hundon 21 Nov. 1831" TIA ... John -------------------------------------------------- Re: HELP NEEDED for the birth date of SAMUEL HOWLETT, born WOOLPIT, SUFFOLK about 1836/1842?? This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: joanharvey61d Surnames: HOWLETT/SLOW/MURRELL/GODDARD Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8609.9.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi jon Sorry for the late reply, and many thanks for your help. My gt grandmother, Caroline Howlett, birth cert, states Born 26 May 1874, West Street, Red Hill, Reigate Father is SAMUEL HOWLETT, a Farm Labourer Mother is ELIZA HOWLETT, formerly MURRELL (Marked with X) My query is, when SAMUEL HOWLETT and ELIZA MURRELL marry, their marriage cert states Married on 18 Oct 1864, The Register Office, Reigate, Surrey SAMUEL HOWLETT, age 24, a Bachelor, occ. a Limeburner, Father is JOHN HOWLETT, a Blacksmith ELIZA SLOW (NOT MURRELL) age 21, Spinster, father is THOMAS SLOW, occ. a Farm Labourer. So between 1864 and 1874, ELIZA HOWLETT has changed her single name from SLOW to MURRELL. Which is very strange. All I can think of is that I believe her mothers name was originally SLOW. Then her mother re-married to a THOMAS MURRELL. Otherwise, was ELIZA born out of wedlock, so took her mothers single name of SLOW??? All rather confusing, to say the least. I would be very grateful for your advice and help. Thank you Joan Harvey (nee Hands) from Erith, Kent -------------------------------------------------- Re: HELP NEEDED for the birth date of SAMUEL HOWLETT, born WOOLPIT, SUFFOLK about 1836/1842?? This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: suffolkmawther Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8609.9.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: As there is a ten year gap between the wedding and the birth of their daughter Caroline, do you have details of any other children (from census returns perhaps)? If not, it is possible that Samuel lost his first wife Eliza Murrell and then re-married another Eliza (it often happened that wives had same names). However, I note that in the 1901 census Eliza Howlett age 52 is at home with George Budgen age 61 a lodger and a niece - Agnes Murrell age 10 years! These are all references to the county of Surrey - at the moment you are posting on the message board for the county of Suffolk. Might help to ask for more help on the Surrey Board :-) Pat ... -------------------------------------------------- Re: HELP NEEDED for the birth date of SAMUEL HOWLETT, born WOOLPIT, SUFFOLK about 1836/1842?? This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: joanharvey61d Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8609.9.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Pat Many thanks for your reply, help and advice. I have found my gt gt grandparents Samuel and Eliza Howlett (nee SLOW/MURRELL) in 1871 & 1881 census, living in Reigate, Surrey. 1871 Census - living Labroke Rd, Reigate Samuel Howlett Married, age 31, born Woolpit, Suffolk Eliza Howlett, Married, age 24, born Thackham? or Merstham? Mary Ann Howlett, daur, age 5, born Redhill, Reigate George Howlett, son, age 3, born Reigate John Howlett, son, age 1, born Reigate 1818 Census - living The Market Place, High St, Reigate THE NAME HOWLETT has been mistranscribed - it has HAMLETT, this is wrong, should be HOWLETT The same family Samuel Howlett is age 39, born Woolpit Eliza Howlett age 37, born Godstone, Surrey Mary Ann, age 15 George Howlett age 13 John Howlett age 11 Caroline Howlett age 6 (my gt grandmother) I'm still unsure of Eliza, as I have said, in 1864 she is ELIZA SLOW, when she marries, then 1874, she becomes ELIZA MURRELL, on her daughter, Carolines birth cert, how strange. Perhaps she is another wife name ELIZA????? I am very grateful for your help, any other ideas please?? Many thanks Joan Harvey -------------------------------------------------- Re: HELP NEEDED for the birth date of SAMUEL HOWLETT, born WOOLPIT, SUFFOLK about 1836/1842?? This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jonwarrn Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8609.9.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi I think maybe Eliza's parents weren't married. Not 100% sure on all of this - Going on the niece, Agnes Murrell, 10 born Croydon in 1901 - it looks to me as though she might be the daughter of Amos Murrell (born 1857 Merstham) - in 1891 he has a daughter Emily born Oxted (registered Godstone June 1890), she died in March 1892 Croydon?, in 1901 Amos's family is in Croydon Agnes Murrell birth possiby registered March 1892 Croydon, same time place as Emily's death. In 1911 I think Agnes is still in the Reigate area, and says she is born Oxted. Going back to the 1861 census, in the Reigate district, piece 444 folio 149 page 3, you have Thomas and Eliza Murrell, children include Eliza 14 and Amos 4. They are still around in 1871, I don't know if they are near to the Howletts. Eliza may be quite a bit younger than Thomas, her age is a little in doubt, born Bromley Kent - 74 in 1891? an Eliza Slow was bap Bromley 7 March 1819 to James and Elizabeth. On the other hand she could be Slow by a marriage? Haven't found Thomas Eliza yet in 1851, can't even say they are together, so a lot of mystery still John -------------------------------------------------- Re: HELP NEEDED for the birth date of SAMUEL HOWLETT, born WOOLPIT, SUFFOLK about 1836/1842?? This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: joanharvey61d Surnames: SLOW/MURRELL/HOWLETT/GODDARD from SURREY & WOOLPIT, SUFFOLK Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8609.9.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Jon Thanks for your reply and help, it is very much like a difficult jig-saw puzzle trying to fit everyone together. I have been told by a contact on genesreunited that they also believe that ELIZA SLOW/MURRELL parents never married. They have on their tree, Eliza Murrell, born 1844, Thackham, Surrey is the daughter of Thomas Murrell, born 1806 and Eliza Slow, born 1819. Parents of Thomas Murrell are Richard Murrell, b. 1776, Cove, Hampshire and Maria Bailey, b. 1777, they married in Yateley, Hampshire. If this is correct, why has Eliza given her name as "SLOW" on her marriage cert, in 1864 at Reigate, when she married Samuel Howlett?? But her name is MURRELL,(former name) as mother on her daughters (Caroline HOWLETT) birth cert, in 1874, all very confusing. The 1871 census has Thomas Murrell age 68, born Yateley, Hampshire and Eliza Murrell age 57, born Bromley, Kent, living Labroke Rd, Reigate. In the same household are Samuel and Eliza Howlett with their children, Mary Ann, George and John. So Thomas and Eliza Murrell surely must be the parents of Eliza Howlett (nee Slow/Murrell). Eliza Howlett has, born Thakeham, in the census for 1871, but in 1881 census,(NAME is HAMLETT, a mistake) it has born in Godstone, Surrey. Do you know where Thakeham is? Is it near to Godstone? Not sure about that, any ideas? I wonder if Thakeham is meant to read "Mertsham", as the writing is not very clear. Another mystery is SAMUEL HOWLETT, my gt gt grandfather. He was born Woolpit, Suffolk, the problem with him is, (I believe) that he has given the wrong ages all through census returns, making it difficult to find him. But I think he was born in 1835, Woolpit, but going by census, he supposed to be born about 1840. His father on marriage cert is John Howlett, a blacksmith. Another confusion is Samuel Howlett's age on marriage cert in 1864, is age 24. O dear, will I ever find the truth!!!! Many thanks for your help, much appreciated. Joan Harvey -------------------------------------------------- Re: HELP NEEDED for the birth date of SAMUEL HOWLETT, born WOOLPIT, SUFFOLK about 1836/1842?? This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jonwarrn Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8609.9.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Joan The first possible baptism I can see is George Murrell in 1849 Betchworth to Thomas Eliza. But there are quite a few Murrells in these parts. If somebody has acquired one of the later birth certificates they may have some proof that the mother was Eliza Slow. I am not sure I can pin down a birth registration for Eliza, possibly there is one, but which? If the parents didn't marry they do sometimes use the mother's name, perhaps when it came to her marriage she got a bit nervous or worried as to whether she should use the Murrell name? Even though it would be her legal name if her birth was registered. If you can't find any evidence of the Samuel Howlett from 1835 being someone else - I suppose that would mean a marriage, death, census record or emigration - then it seems reasonable to suppose he is your Samuel, he might just be narrowing down an age gap with Eliza of about 9-12 years (depending on what her age was exactly!) Similarly if they are with the Murrell family in 71 (sorry, didn't realise this) then I agree with you, they should be her family Sadly you probably won't be able to find out now why they said these things, but I honestly think there is enough evidence to say who they are, with some confidence. But you are right to keep worrying away at it, there is a slight feeling something is missing! Wish I could find Eliza in 1851, it might help a bit more. I don't know where that place is, there's a Thakeham in Sussex, I don't think she was born in Reigate, its another mystery! Best wishes John -------------------------------------------------- Re: Bastardy record - help needed This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: crusoe123 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8638.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It means that Mehitabel Bareham of Clare was pregnant, and webt before the Magistrates to say whose child it was. She obviously alleged that the father was Charles Jolly of Hundon The date of the hearing was 21 November 1831. Damaged and defective, probably relates to the copy of the transcript of the evidence. If Mehitabel was in such circumstances that she could not provide for a child, then she would try to prove the parentage, prior to the birth. Later, you could only go to Court about this type of thing after the birth of the child. It was a means of obtaining either a weekly allowance from the father, or a lump sum. Often you geat to know what order was made, if parentage was proved, or, if unproved, then the case would be dismissed. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------