Thank you very much to all those kind people who responded to my Spam eradication problem. I would like to especially thank Roger, Colin, Nivard, Peter, Brian and Giles. You have all given me much food for thought and I greatly appreciate your very helpful suggestions. Marj.

If anyone has access to Moulton PR's could they please possibly look up a baptism for me - it is 1669 Elizabeth Harrison, thanks. V Atkinson

Many thanks to Anne and Nivard for their tremendous input.   Incidently, FairbairnsCrests shows a strange looking 'griffin rampant holding sword aloft' and IGI lists; Mary Anne Hoy baptised 16 Apr 1813 at St James, Bury St Edmunds, to Griffin Hoy and Ursula Cranshey.

How interesting. The 1851 cencus shows two wealthy elderly sisters (land & fund owners) living with their servant, possibly in a separate villa in the grounds of Higham Lodge - Google aerial map shows one such building north of the main house, built about 1830. The two women were born at Stoke by Nayland and thus kinswomen of William Hoy, lord of Bocking manor. The unmarried woman, Jane Anastasia, is a Hoy, thus both are Hoys. The widow, Mary, is Mrs Theen, so we can reasonably expect she had been married to a Mr Theen, deceased. Was there a young Theen esq., living at the main house in 1851? Why are they living at the home of Higham of Higham? [Presumably the male Higham line had earlier ended and a female heir had married a Theen and they produced Mary's husband, -  that works.] None of this explains the arms (crest) of Hoy of Higham. When did he live?   Can anyone cast light? Interestingly, part of the  old tudor Higham manor house was re erected in the USA and may be viewed on-line. Thanks again, Anne.   --- On Mon, 31/1/11, Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> wrote: From: Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Hoy To: suffolk@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, 31, January, 2011, 4:58 PM This is the only one: 1851 Higham Villa, Higham Mary Theen      74 W Head Land proprietor & fundholder b Stoke by Nayland Jane Anastosea Hoy U sister    69  do do Sarah Dyer     21  Servant The term I hadn't come across before was 'son BY law' - 'son in law' is common and could mean one's daughter's husband or one's stepson.  In this case, he was a teenager, so presumably a stepson. Anne South australia David Hoye wrote: > Many thanks, Anne. > If it isn't too much trouble, was there a Hoy at Higham on any cencus in the 19th C? > > Fairbairns Family Crests, 1905, lists a crest for Hoy of Higham Lodge, Suffolk. There is no explanation as to who he was or when he lived there. > In the 16th C there was an association between Sir Clement Higham of Barrow ( near Higham) and George Hoy, yeoman of Acton, Suffolk, (they traded land) and it's possible that the two families forged a close alliance at some time before say 1841. > > The term son in law is a legal one (obviously) used from at least the Middle Ages. > Under english law, no man may disadvantage his family by giving Real or Personal estate to a stranger (non family), so the only way that a Testator may reward say a business partner is to designate him as a 'son in law' > That 'son' might be older than himself! > Lawful issue had to be provided for, of course. > > Best wishes, David. > New Zealand. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUFFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just to put things straight - the phrase I had not come across before (in many, many years of transcribing censuses) was "son BY law", not "son IN law" which is very common. Thanks, Dorothy, for the workhouse information. Anne South Australia

A Google Books search gives this http://books.google.com.au/books?id=LLcRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA373&lpg=PA373&dq=Hoy+Higham+suffolk&source=bl&ots=FHupAqml-Z&sig=xcFCjy3goyf3gp90JQ-K6zS_-ms&hl=en&ei=eYJGTaPxMMSlcPa5jNkN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Hoy Higham suffolk&f=false "I A Hoy of Higham Lodge, Suffolk" 1831 This (first published 1878) http://books.google.com.au/books?id=3WjdEHsAu88C&pg=PA514&lpg=PA514&dq=Hoy+Higham+suffolk&source=bl&ots=2anWnjJgF6&sig=deJGti2EH9PoERA9BJ-Vuo1_4Ks&hl=en&ei=eYJGTaPxMMSlcPa5jNkN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Hoy Higham suffolk&f=false says that the arms were granted to Isaac A Hoy. Esq of Higham Lodge, Suffolk Higham Lodge in 1851 was occupied by Mary Dawson 33 W landed proprietor b Buenos Aires Mary Dawson 11 b Higham Helen Dawson 8 b Higham Fred W Brittain 31 landed proprietor brother b Buenos Aires Mary C Charlton 23 governess Elizabeth Clarke 64 house servant Ann Maria Heckford 18 house servant Unfortunately, the 1841 census does not show Higham Lodge as a separate address. Anne South Australia David Hoye wrote: > How interesting. > The 1851 cencus shows two wealthy elderly sisters (land& fund owners) living with their servant, possibly in a separate villa in the grounds of Higham Lodge - Google aerial map shows one such building north of the main house, built about 1830. > The two women were born at Stoke by Nayland and thus kinswomen of William Hoy, lord of Bocking manor. > The unmarried woman, Jane Anastasia, is a Hoy, thus both are Hoys. > The widow, Mary, is Mrs Theen, so we can reasonably expect she had been married to a > Mr Theen, deceased. > Was there a young Theen esq., living at the main house in 1851? > Why are they living at the home of Higham of Higham? [Presumably the male Higham line had earlier ended and a female heir had married a Theen and they produced Mary's husband, - that works.] > None of this explains the arms (crest) of Hoy of Higham. When did he live? > > Can anyone cast light? > Interestingly, part of the old tudor Higham manor house was re erected in the USA and may be viewed on-line. > Thanks again, Anne. >

Does anyone have, or can suggest possible site/s to obtain a photograph of the Gaol. Thanks Ken Woodgate New Zealand

A Google Images search for "Ipswich County Gaol" gives this photograph: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/16926 Anne South Australia Ken Woodgate wrote: > Does anyone have, or can suggest possible site/s to obtain a photograph of > the Gaol. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Ken Woodgate > > New Zealand >

Many thanks, Anne. If it isn't too much trouble, was there a Hoy at Higham on any cencus in the 19th C?   Fairbairns Family Crests, 1905, lists a crest for Hoy of Higham Lodge, Suffolk. There is no explanation as to who he was or when he lived there. In the 16th C there was an association between Sir Clement Higham of Barrow ( near Higham) and George Hoy, yeoman of Acton, Suffolk, (they traded land) and it's possible that the two families forged a close alliance at some time before say 1841.   The term son in law is a legal one (obviously) used from at least the Middle Ages. Under english law, no man may disadvantage his family by giving Real or Personal estate to a stranger (non family), so the only way that a Testator may reward say a business partner is to designate him as a 'son in law' That 'son' might be older than himself! Lawful issue had to be provided for, of course.   Best wishes, David. New Zealand. --- On Mon, 31/1/11, Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> wrote: From: Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Hoy To: suffolk@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, 31, January, 2011, 9:29 AM In 1891 all the HOYs in Suffolk (16 of them) are living in Whitton cum Thurlston 1901 - 14 HOYs, Troston (1), Whitton with Thurlston(9),Walton(3), Bury St E..(1) I also tried HOYE with no results in Suffolk. Anne South Australia David Hoye wrote: > Could a kind soul with access to 1891&1901 cencii please tell me if a Hoy was living in Higham, there are 2 such places, Edmundsbury more likely but could be Baberg. Is there an address? > Best wishes. > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUFFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is the only one: 1851 Higham Villa, Higham Mary Theen 74 W Head Land proprietor & fundholder b Stoke by Nayland Jane Anastosea Hoy U sister 69 do do Sarah Dyer 21 Servant The term I hadn't come across before was 'son BY law' - 'son in law' is common and could mean one's daughter's husband or one's stepson. In this case, he was a teenager, so presumably a stepson. Anne South australia David Hoye wrote: > Many thanks, Anne. > If it isn't too much trouble, was there a Hoy at Higham on any cencus in the 19th C? > > Fairbairns Family Crests, 1905, lists a crest for Hoy of Higham Lodge, Suffolk. There is no explanation as to who he was or when he lived there. > In the 16th C there was an association between Sir Clement Higham of Barrow ( near Higham) and George Hoy, yeoman of Acton, Suffolk, (they traded land) and it's possible that the two families forged a close alliance at some time before say 1841. > > The term son in law is a legal one (obviously) used from at least the Middle Ages. > Under english law, no man may disadvantage his family by giving Real or Personal estate to a stranger (non family), so the only way that a Testator may reward say a business partner is to designate him as a 'son in law' > That 'son' might be older than himself! > Lawful issue had to be provided for, of course. > > Best wishes, David. > New Zealand.

Browsing through the images for Troston, there are many families with 'inmates' - it could possibly be the enumerator's idiosyncratic term for 'lodger'or a local usage. A good few of the 'inmates' seem to be paupers - maybe the local workhouse farmed them out ? He also uses the term 'son by law'(presumably stepson), which I haven't come across before. Anne South Australia Phil White wrote: > Hi Folks, I have come across an unusual enty, at least to me, and I > hope I can get some opinions. > An Immage for Troston 1851 Census HO107-1791F475p2 shows an OSBORN > family and the 7th line contains > " James Game inmate, age 45, mar Ag lab" > Under what circumstances would an individual be considered an > "inmate" in a private house

I thought I saw a query regarding St Audrey's Hospital on the list, but I have either deleted it comletely or I imagined it. I may be able to help further if the original poster would like to get back to me. Back problems curtailing sitting at PC for too long and a very frustrating intermittent internet connection not helping much ! Pat ...

I don't know if it helps or hinders but from the Probate Calendars 1871 HOY Martha 9 December The Will of Martha HOY late of Stoke by Nayland in the County if Suffolk Widow who died 30 Oct 1871 at Stoke by Nayland was proved at the Principal Registry by the Reverend Mathias Lane of Stoke by Nayland Clerk the sole executor Effects under £450 1888 HOY William Esq 11 August The Will of William HOY late of Stoke Priory (near Colchester) in the County of Suffolk Esquire who died 28 July 1888 at 12 Montpellier terrace Brighton in the County of Sussex was proved at the Principal Registry by Helen Teresa Hoy of Stoke Priory Widow the Relict the sole Executrix Personal Estate £616 8s 4d Martha appears to be the widow of Isaac >From the 1841 Address = Priory Farmhous Stoke by Nayland Transcribed as BAKER but are HOY Name: Martha Baker [Martha Hoy] Age: 65 Estimated birth year: abt 1776 Gender: Female Civil Parish: Stoke By Nayland Hundred: Babergh County/Island: Suffolk Country: England Registration district: Sudbury Sub-registration district: Bures Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Isane Baker 65 (Isaac HOY) occupation = Ind (Independent means) Martha Baker 65 (Martha HOY) HO107; Piece 1012; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Stoke By Nayland; County: Suffolk; Enumeration District: 14; Folio: 43; Page: 16; Line: 18; GSU roll: 474634. Isaacs will may again reveal more Description Will of Isaac Hoy of Stoke next Nayland , Suffolk Date 25 October 1851 Catalogue reference PROB 11/2140links to the Catalogue Image contains 1 will of many for the catalogue reference Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) How interesting. The 1851 cencus shows two wealthy elderly sisters (land & fund owners) living with their servant, possibly in a separate villa in the grounds of Higham Lodge - Google aerial map shows one such building north of the main house, built about 1830. The two women were born at Stoke by Nayland and thus kinswomen of William Hoy, lord of Bocking manor. The unmarried woman, Jane Anastasia, is a Hoy, thus both are Hoys. The widow, Mary, is Mrs Theen, so we can reasonably expect she had been married to a Mr Theen, deceased. Was there a young Theen esq., living at the main house in 1851? Why are they living at the home of Higham of Higham? [Presumably the male Higham line had earlier ended and a female heir had married a Theen and they produced Mary's husband, - that works.] None of this explains the arms (crest) of Hoy of Higham. When did he live? Can anyone cast light? Interestingly, part of the old tudor Higham manor house was re erected in the USA and may be viewed on-line. Thanks again, Anne.

Hi David Other presumptions aside You seem to be taking transcriptions a little to literally I would suggest your THEEN is actually SHEEN In 1841 Name: Thomas Shun (SHEEN) Age: 60 Estimated birth year: abt 1781 Gender: Male Civil Parish: Higham Hundred: Samford County/Island: Suffolk Country: England Registration district: Samford Sub-registration district: St Mary Capel Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Thomas Shun 60 (SHEEN) Hanne Shun 59 (Mary SHEEN) HO107; Piece 1034; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Higham; County: Suffolk; Enumeration District: 5; Folio: 7; Page: 13; Line: 11; GSU roll: 474642. They may or may not be on a separate schedule, page is hard to read, it looks like there may be a strike against the name of Jane HOY but it does not really matter, either way they appear to be in the same building Name: Jane A Hay (HOY) Age: 55 Estimated birth year: abt 1786 Gender: Female Where born: Suffolk, England Civil Parish: Higham Hundred: Samford County/Island: Suffolk Country: England Registration district: Samford Sub-registration district: St Mary Capel Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Jane A Hay 55 Mary Leeks 16 Mary Crussns 18 (COUSINS) Sarah Crussns 16 (COUSINS) John Martin 19 HO107; Piece 1034; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Higham; County: Suffolk; Enumeration District: 5; Folio: 7; Page: 13; Line: 13; GSU roll: 474642. Marriage THOMAS SHEEN Spouse: MARY HOY Marriage: 18 JUL 1799 Stoke By Nayland, Suffolk, England M063143 1754 - 1812 0919632 Film 6900895 Thomas's death reg Name: Thomas Sheen Year of Registration: 1843 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Samford County: Suffolk Volume: 12 Page: 289 His will available on the National Archives for a fee may well give more on the family Description Will of Thomas Sheen, Gentleman of Higham , Suffolk Date 06 February 1843 Catalogue reference PROB 11/1975links to the Catalogue Image contains 1 will of many for the catalogue reference Marys death reg Name: Mary Sheen Year of Registration: 1858 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Samford County: Suffolk Volume: 4a Page: 349 Jane (Anastasia?) HOY death reg Name: Jane Anastatia Hoy Year of Registration: 1860 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Sudbury County: Essex, Suffolk Volume: 4a Page: 284 The term son in law is interchangable with step son at this time It may or may not mean an actual relationship, no proof was asked for or pursued as regards information given in the census Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) How interesting. The 1851 cencus shows two wealthy elderly sisters (land & fund owners) living with their servant, possibly in a separate villa in the grounds of Higham Lodge - Google aerial map shows one such building north of the main house, built about 1830. The two women were born at Stoke by Nayland and thus kinswomen of William Hoy, lord of Bocking manor. The unmarried woman, Jane Anastasia, is a Hoy, thus both are Hoys. The widow, Mary, is Mrs Theen, so we can reasonably expect she had been married to a Mr Theen, deceased. Was there a young Theen esq., living at the main house in 1851? Why are they living at the home of Higham of Higham? [Presumably the male Higham line had earlier ended and a female heir had married a Theen and they produced Mary's husband, - that works.] None of this explains the arms (crest) of Hoy of Higham. When did he live? Can anyone cast light? Interestingly, part of the old tudor Higham manor house was re erected in the USA and may be viewed on-line. Thanks again, Anne.

Hi, In many areas it was the custom to put Workhouse inmates out to families in the parish - this relieved the pressure on the parish funds and provided work for inmates - in the hope that they would then be able to fund themselves. Some people just stayed out for the day and returned to the Workhouse to sleep but it looks as if in this instance he was lodging there. Son in law could refer to someone related by marriage - ie a stepson or to the husband of a daughter - quite possible that a married couple/widower could end up in the Workhouse too. Regards, Dot Dorothy Holden Dover Kent England There are three things that can never be retrieved- the spoken word, time past and the neglected opportunity I volunteer for the Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness website www.raogk.org

Could a kind soul with access to 1891 &1901 cencii please tell me if a Hoy was living in Higham, there are 2 such places, Edmundsbury more likely but could be Baberg. Is there an address? Best wishes.

In 1891 all the HOYs in Suffolk (16 of them) are living in Whitton cum Thurlston 1901 - 14 HOYs, Troston (1), Whitton with Thurlston(9),Walton(3), Bury St E.(1) I also tried HOYE with no results in Suffolk. Anne South Australia David Hoye wrote: > Could a kind soul with access to 1891&1901 cencii please tell me if a Hoy was living in Higham, there are 2 such places, Edmundsbury more likely but could be Baberg. Is there an address? > Best wishes. >

Hi Folks, I have come across an unusual enty, at least to me, and I hope I can get some opinions. An Immage for Troston 1851 Census HO107-1791F475p2 shows an OSBORN family and the 7th line contains " James Game inmate, age 45, mar Ag lab" Under what circumstances would an individual be considered an "inmate" in a private house

Hello Ben I also checked your tree and I notice that you have my husband's ancestors on your tree. SIMMONS/SUMMONS I do have some information not on your tree is you are interested let me know Pamela Simmons

I've checked my list and although I have those surnames, I don't match with any of the names but knowing Glemsford it won't be long before we fit together ;) Ben Sent from my iPhone On 30 Jan 2011, at 11:13, "richard" <richardmyhill43@btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi Ben, > I have some Glemsford people in my family tree,and i have noticed that we > share some Surnames.I have the following, > WILLIAM HOWE. 1789 > SARAH BROCKWELL. 1786 > and their seven children. > WILLIAM HOWE.1765 > ANN WRIGHT. 1766 > and their three children. > EDWARD HOWES. 1742 > JANE ALLEN. ? > and their nine children. > JOSEPH HOWE. 1712 > ELIZABETH ? > and their six children. > JOHN BROCKWELL.1754 > SUSANNA ARGENT. 1754 > one child only found. > JOHN ARGENT1717 > SARAH BREWSTER. 1723 > and their eight children > SARAH BRUSTER. no other details > Do you connect to any of these? > Richard > Richard Myhill > > richardmyhill43@btinternet.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Oakley" <the_oakster@hotmail.co.uk> > To: <suffolk@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Jarmin family from Glemsford > > >> The vast majority of my family come from Glemsford and I have a very small >> number of Jarmin /Jarmyn's so if you look at my site you can see if they >> are connected to yours. >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~oakleyfamilytree/ >> >> Ben >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SUFFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >