As a researcher said to me once "You have to kill them off to prove that they died". This meant that you had to look for the death record first!! I just LOVE killing my rellies off now!! Diane On 02/06/2012 23:17, Jane wrote: > Hi Gerald& others, > > Your comment about watching baptisms closely hit the mark with me. I've > found many trees on Ancestry& other sites where this double naming has > happened and has been either missed as two (or more) children, or had > the children confused with each other. These days, as a matter of > course, if I find what appears to be a duplicate baptism - ie, same name > baptised on different dates for what appears to be the same parents - I > start checking the deaths to see if the earlier child/children died. > With so much sharing of family research available on the web, it's easy > to confuse family members when one double naming occurs, particularly if > a death record has been overlooked. > > I do find it interesting, though, that so many have duplicate children's > names where the children all survived! My stepfather was the 14th of 19 > children (one father, two mothers), and he always expressed his father's > pride in never repeating a name - first or middle - amongst them. In > researching his family, I did find one child who died, and his first > name reused with a different middle name. > > Interesting discussion! Regards, > > Jane Eliza (did someone mention my name?!) > researching Ruse, Allbrow, Fulcher, Arnold, Last, Lofts, Rayner, Ellis, > Thornton& maybe Fairlam in Suffolk. > > > On 3/06/2012 3:46 AM, Townsends wrote: >> Hi Anne and other posters >> I have the same thing happening in my Suffolk Welham family. One has to watch baptisms quite closely and try and get all family members to ensure they are following same person. I had one male child who lived to be 12 and then died and the next son was given his name and survived to an old age. If I had not captured all of the family baptisms I could have mistakenly used the first son's baptism as the one for the second son who was the survivor. >> >> Gerald Townsend >> Vancouver, British Columbia Canada >> Searching for Suffolk: Welham, Josselyn/Joslin, Green, Knights, Girt, Knock, Garwood, Downing, Grimwood, Snell, Clarke, Lambert, Wallage, Gould >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Surely you know that isn't an answer either. It's just an accident report. Sharon On Jun 2, 2012, at 6:27 PM, Diane wrote: > As a researcher said to me once "You have to kill them off to prove that > they died". This meant that you had to look for the death record > first!! I just LOVE killing my rellies off now!! > > Diane > > On 02/06/2012 23:17, Jane wrote: >> Hi Gerald& others, >> >> Your comment about watching baptisms closely hit the mark with me. I've >> found many trees on Ancestry& other sites where this double naming has >> happened and has been either missed as two (or more) children, or had >> the children confused with each other. These days, as a matter of >> course, if I find what appears to be a duplicate baptism - ie, same name >> baptised on different dates for what appears to be the same parents - I >> start checking the deaths to see if the earlier child/children died. >> With so much sharing of family research available on the web, it's easy >> to confuse family members when one double naming occurs, particularly if >> a death record has been overlooked. >> >> I do find it interesting, though, that so many have duplicate children's >> names where the children all survived! My stepfather was the 14th of 19 >> children (one father, two mothers), and he always expressed his father's >> pride in never repeating a name - first or middle - amongst them. In >> researching his family, I did find one child who died, and his first >> name reused with a different middle name. >> >> Interesting discussion! Regards, >> >> Jane Eliza (did someone mention my name?!) >> researching Ruse, Allbrow, Fulcher, Arnold, Last, Lofts, Rayner, Ellis, >> Thornton& maybe Fairlam in Suffolk. >> >> >> On 3/06/2012 3:46 AM, Townsends wrote: >>> Hi Anne and other posters >>> I have the same thing happening in my Suffolk Welham family. One has to watch baptisms quite closely and try and get all family members to ensure they are following same person. I had one male child who lived to be 12 and then died and the next son was given his name and survived to an old age. If I had not captured all of the family baptisms I could have mistakenly used the first son's baptism as the one for the second son who was the survivor. >>> >>> Gerald Townsend >>> Vancouver, British Columbia Canada >>> Searching for Suffolk: Welham, Josselyn/Joslin, Green, Knights, Girt, Knock, Garwood, Downing, Grimwood, Snell, Clarke, Lambert, Wallage, Gould >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, in my Suffolk Packard family, several children were called William - one died then the next boy was called William and so it went on - eventually a William survived to adulthood. Joy Dean > From: Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> > Subject: [SFK-UK] REUSING CHRISTIAN NAMES > Dear Listers, > I am of the impression that the families of the times say 1730 to 1910 > were in the practise of using the same Christian over and over again > until they got a babe of the name to survive!!! > Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was > quite common? > We have many such examples in our family tree, I,e, greats x 5 had 11 > children 1 survived! and they had 5 goes at a Thomas and three of a > Martha. Another family had three goes at a James, two of a Thomas and > two Lydias. 5 out of the 11 of that lot survived! I think we must have > had a good dose of syphilis somehow! > Sincerely Anne Gentleman, NELSON NZ > researching BUTLER, CHILVERS, JEFFERSON, DENNY/DENNEY, LEATHERS>

The London Gazette of 1846 under the heading Trinity House London contains 2 paragraphs concerning the licensing of Woodbridge pilots including the following quote. "...an Act passed in the sixth year of his late Majesty King George the fourth, intituled "An Act for the amendment of the law respecting pilots....." This would be the Pilotage Act 1825 and I would like to see the actual wording of this act but have failed to find it on line. Could some kind person point me in the right direction. David James

FYI http://www.findmypast.co.uk/content/news/suffolk-kent David Vesey

Gerald, could you please contact me in regards to your connection to the Snell line. Not that i have lot of information but i would like to ask a question. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Townsends Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 1:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [SFK-UK] REUSING CHRISTIAN NAMES Hi Anne and other posters I have the same thing happening in my Suffolk Welham family. One has to watch baptisms quite closely and try and get all family members to ensure they are following same person. I had one male child who lived to be 12 and then died and the next son was given his name and survived to an old age. If I had not captured all of the family baptisms I could have mistakenly used the first son's baptism as the one for the second son who was the survivor. Gerald Townsend Vancouver, British Columbia Canada Searching for Suffolk: Welham, Josselyn/Joslin, Green, Knights, Girt, Knock, Garwood, Downing, Grimwood, Snell, Clarke, Lambert, Wallage, Gould Message: 1 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:03:16 +1200 From: Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> Subject: [SFK-UK] REUSING CHRISTIAN NAMES To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dear Listers, I am of the impression that the families of the times say 1730 to 1910 were in the practise of using the same Christian over and over again until they got a babe of the name to survive!!! Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was quite common? We have many such examples in our family tree, I,e, greats x 5 had 11 children 1 survived! and they had 5 goes at a Thomas and three of a Martha. Another family had three goes at a James, two of a Thomas and two Lydias. 5 out of the 11 of that lot survived! I think we must have had a good dose of syphilis somehow! Sincerely Anne Gentleman, NELSON NZ researching BUTLER, CHILVERS, JEFFERSON, DENNY/DENNEY, LEATHERS ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well just to add to the confusion surrounding names - one of our Scottish families named three children Jane Eliza. Unfortunately the third child was a boy. He changed his name as an adult when he came to Australia to James Ellis and was forever after called Jem. I have no idea what he was called as a child. We also have two girls named Mary (no second names) in another family who both survived to old age. I originally thought that there may have been two grandmothers of that name but this has turned out not to be so. On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:23 PM, Caroline Bell <[email protected]> wrote: > In areas where a strict naming pattern was used (such as Scotland), it was > very common for there to be lots of living relatives with the same name - > child, parent, uncles, cousins, grandparents etc. In these cases there > appeared to be lots of different variations of the same name used > day-to-day - ie Agnes was either Agnes, Aggie or Ashie. In Norfolk > families, > the first name was the common name, but the middle name was the one used. > > My grandmother was named after her one of her dead older sisters, as was > her > brother after another dead child > >

Hi Anne and other posters I have the same thing happening in my Suffolk Welham family. One has to watch baptisms quite closely and try and get all family members to ensure they are following same person. I had one male child who lived to be 12 and then died and the next son was given his name and survived to an old age. If I had not captured all of the family baptisms I could have mistakenly used the first son's baptism as the one for the second son who was the survivor. Gerald Townsend Vancouver, British Columbia Canada Searching for Suffolk: Welham, Josselyn/Joslin, Green, Knights, Girt, Knock, Garwood, Downing, Grimwood, Snell, Clarke, Lambert, Wallage, Gould Message: 1 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:03:16 +1200 From: Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> Subject: [SFK-UK] REUSING CHRISTIAN NAMES To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dear Listers, I am of the impression that the families of the times say 1730 to 1910 were in the practise of using the same Christian over and over again until they got a babe of the name to survive!!! Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was quite common? We have many such examples in our family tree, I,e, greats x 5 had 11 children 1 survived! and they had 5 goes at a Thomas and three of a Martha. Another family had three goes at a James, two of a Thomas and two Lydias. 5 out of the 11 of that lot survived! I think we must have had a good dose of syphilis somehow! Sincerely Anne Gentleman, NELSON NZ researching BUTLER, CHILVERS, JEFFERSON, DENNY/DENNEY, LEATHERS

Dear Listers, I am of the impression that the families of the times say 1730 to 1910 were in the practise of using the same Christian over and over again until they got a babe of the name to survive!!! Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was quite common? We have many such examples in our family tree, I,e, greats x 5 had 11 children 1 survived! and they had 5 goes at a Thomas and three of a Martha. Another family had three goes at a James, two of a Thomas and two Lydias. 5 out of the 11 of that lot survived! I think we must have had a good dose of syphilis somehow! Sincerely Anne Gentleman, NELSON NZ researching BUTLER, CHILVERS, JEFFERSON, DENNY/DENNEY, LEATHERS

In areas where a strict naming pattern was used (such as Scotland), it was very common for there to be lots of living relatives with the same name - child, parent, uncles, cousins, grandparents etc. In these cases there appeared to be lots of different variations of the same name used day-to-day - ie Agnes was either Agnes, Aggie or Ashie. In Norfolk families, the first name was the common name, but the middle name was the one used. My grandmother was named after her one of her dead older sisters, as was her brother after another dead child Caroline > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On > Behalf Of Nivard Ovington > Sent: 01 June 2012 12:50 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] REUSING CHRISTIAN NAMES > > I can also recall a case posted some years back about a family who had > five > surviving Williams > > In reality, whilst they were baptised as William the family probably used > a > different name for each one > > I can't remember why they named all the five the same , it was in the > 1700's > if I remember rightly > > In answer to the original question, yes very common practice to name the > next child the same as the first > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > >> On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:03:16 +1200 >> Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hello Anne, >> >>> Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was >>> quite common? >> >> It was, yes. There are also cases of two *surviving* children in the >> same family having the same name. >> >> -- >> Regards _ >> / ) "The blindingly obvious is >> / _)rad never immediately apparent" >

George Foreman the boxer has called all his five boys George. Wikipedia States Foreman has 11 children, and each of his five sons is named George: George Jr., George III, George IV, George V and George VI. His four younger sons are distinguished from one another by the nicknames "Monk," "Big Wheel," "Red" and "Little Joey." Also of issue in his marriage are two daughters named Natalia and Leola. He also has three daughters from a separate relationship: Michi, Freeda and Georgetta. He also adopted a daughter, Isabella Brandie Lilja (Foreman), in 2009 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 01 June 2012 12:50 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] REUSING CHRISTIAN NAMES I can also recall a case posted some years back about a family who had five surviving Williams In reality, whilst they were baptised as William the family probably used a different name for each one I can't remember why they named all the five the same , it was in the 1700's if I remember rightly In answer to the original question, yes very common practice to name the next child the same as the first Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:03:16 +1200 > Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Anne, > >> Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was >> quite common? > > It was, yes. There are also cases of two *surviving* children in the > same family having the same name. > > -- > Regards _ > / ) "The blindingly obvious is > / _)rad never immediately apparent" ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Common in the North Meols / Southport area, where infant mortality was very high. My GG grandfather was his parent's 3rd attempt at Nathan. In another case, a distant cousin, a child named Jabez died a week after the birth of another son, who was then given the same name. BrianG On 01/06/2012 12:03, Anne & Des Gentleman wrote: > Dear Listers, > I am of the impression that the families of the times say 1730 to 1910 > were in the practise of using the same Christian over and over again > until they got a babe of the name to survive!!! > Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was > quite common? > We have many such examples in our family tree, I,e, greats x 5 had 11 > children 1 survived! and they had 5 goes at a Thomas and three of a > Martha. Another family had three goes at a James, two of a Thomas and > two Lydias. 5 out of the 11 of that lot survived! I think we must have > had a good dose of syphilis somehow! > Sincerely Anne Gentleman, NELSON NZ > researching BUTLER, CHILVERS, JEFFERSON, DENNY/DENNEY, LEATHERS > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 12:50:11 +0100 "Nivard Ovington" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Nivard, > In reality, whilst they were baptised as William the family probably > used a different name for each one Almost certainly, yes. In a similar vein, friend's of our have father and son bath called Mark. Each knows when it's them being called by the wife/mother by the tone of her voice. Scary. :-) -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

I can also recall a case posted some years back about a family who had five surviving Williams In reality, whilst they were baptised as William the family probably used a different name for each one I can't remember why they named all the five the same , it was in the 1700's if I remember rightly In answer to the original question, yes very common practice to name the next child the same as the first Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:03:16 +1200 > Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Anne, > >> Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was >> quite common? > > It was, yes. There are also cases of two *surviving* children in the > same family having the same name. > > -- > Regards _ > / ) "The blindingly obvious is > / _)rad never immediately apparent"

Yep, I've seen the re-use of names in my tree a lot, trying to get one with the name to survive, usually it was the father/mother or grandparent name. I have also seen that when the first one dies, eg called James, then the next one will be for instance James John , James Samuel etc. It's like the parents did not want to erase the children that did not make it, but ensured that the name that the child simply had to have lived on. In my tree, I have seen five sons, all with the name Samuel, that died. Infant mortality must have been shocking and I pity those poor parents. Regards David On 1 June 2012 12:03, Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Listers, > I am of the impression that the families of the times say 1730 to 1910 > were in the practise of using the same Christian over and over again > until they got a babe of the name to survive!!! > Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was > quite common? > We have many such examples in our family tree, I,e, greats x 5 had 11 > children 1 survived! and they had 5 goes at a Thomas and three of a > Martha. Another family had three goes at a James, two of a Thomas and > two Lydias. 5 out of the 11 of that lot survived! I think we must have > had a good dose of syphilis somehow! > Sincerely Anne Gentleman, NELSON NZ > researching BUTLER, CHILVERS, JEFFERSON, DENNY/DENNEY, LEATHERS > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:03:16 +1200 Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Anne, > Anyone else discovered this practise please? I am guessing it was > quite common? It was, yes. There are also cases of two *surviving* children in the same family having the same name. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

I would like to re-post my Westhall interests. I am researching the CLARKE family in Westhall. I go back to William CLARKE and Mary STANNARD. However. William CLARKE was a widower when he married Mary STANNARD. My current theory....just a theory.... But my current theory is...... that William was married to someone in Westhall. He may have been from Westhall. Or maybe not. But he was living there. Possibly had kids by this first wife, in Westhall. Possibly named one of these kids "William". Then. Sometime between 1783 and 1789 his first wife died. William Clarke then married again....the second time to Mary Stannard of Eye, SFK in 1789. The William and Mary CLARKE family has six children baptised in Eye. Then the later children...that I have found so far....are baptised in Westhall. And my GGGgrandmother, one of their daughters, marries in Westhall in 1815, so my other theory is, the William and Mary CLARKE family settled in Westhall for good when they left Eye. Associated names.... Robert LOW who married Martha CLARKE Samuel REDGRAVE who married Charlotte CLARKE and, "my" Hannah CLARKE who married William GOODRUM, brother of Richard GOODRUM who married Lydia JESSUP. Helena [email protected]

There is a useful book on the history of Aldeburgh called Aldeburgh Diary by JP Bristow published 1983 ISBN 0 9508615 0 2. I doubt that it is still in print, and the author would now be aged 107. Unfortunately the book is not indexed so might include the Easter family. The history covers the period from pre-history to 1982 in a time line recorded over 40 pages. The appendices are over 60 pages covering the history of aspects of Aldeburgh. The book is packed full of person and house names. The houses are listed in an ambulatory order with their brief historical details. If you want more detail have a look at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SUFFOLK/2007-09/1188742405 where the contents of the book is listed. If you have an idea as to which date or which location, I can have a look at the book, but as said before, this is not an easy task as it is not indexed. William, Henry, elizabeth & mary Easter were recorded in the hearth taxes on various dates in Aldeburgh. Others are near by. If you want more details, follow the following link http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/suffolk/2007-08/1186937880 and then email me off list. Wishing you every success in your researches Giles Colchester, Researching COLCHESTER family, any spelling, any time, any place And PACKARD in Suffolk Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 09:26:55 +0100 From: Dianne Reuby <[email protected]> Subject: [SFK-UK] EASTER family of Aldeburgh To: [email protected] Hi all, just joined the list. My father started his research about 40 years ago, and I've been carrying on . My main Suffolk connection is my father's family, EASTER, mainly from Aldeburgh. The earliest I have is William EASTER and his wife Anne (BRAMWELL) who were born in Stow-cum-Quy in Cambridgeshire and moved to Aldeburgh in the early 1700s. The family moved to London round about the 1840's. I've found much interesting info recently on the parish records which have become available on Find My Past (my local library recently switched from Ancestry to FMP), as well as various online cemetery photo sites. If anyone else is researching this family, I'd be happy to exchange info. Dianne Reuby

Good morning from Australia, I have a Harriett Ann Newby born in Surrey in 1806 - would there be any connection to your Martha Newby? My Harriett married a John Stone. I also have a Clark, but she is in Scotland. Liz Walker, Lake Macquarie, Aust. On 31/05/2012 6:54 AM, dianef0713 wrote: > Hello Helena, > I was very interested to see your post on the Suffolk list. I too have an ancestor William Clarke who was christened in Westhall. My William was christened in 1749 and married Mary Clarke 12 May 1777, also in Westhall. Their son, also William, was christened 10 Feb 1783 in Westhall and married Martha Newby 29 May 1809 in Uggeshall. This William was my 3rd great grandfather. > > If you find any ties to your family, feel free to contact me off list. I believe I have seen the Stannard name in doing my research but could not find the reference to it in my quick look through my notes. Most of my work on the Clarke family was done nearly 10 years ago. > > Hope to hear from you.... > Diane Crook > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 29, 2012, at 7:54:48 AM, Helena<[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Helena<[email protected]> > Subject: [SFK-UK] CLARKE family in Westhall > Date: May 29, 2012 7:54:48 AM EDT > To: [email protected] > Hi. I was wondering if anyone knows how I might access the parish records > for Westhall.... > I did find that the early ones are available for viewing through an LDS > library, but the 1800 period for Westhall does not appear to be listed in > their catalog. > > I am in the US, so I do not have access to the Record Office. > > Thanks. > > Helena > Researching CLARKE in Eye and Westhall, Suffolk. > Specifically: William CLARKE and Mary STANNARD and their children. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hello Helena, I was very interested to see your post on the Suffolk list. I too have an ancestor William Clarke who was christened in Westhall. My William was christened in 1749 and married Mary Clarke 12 May 1777, also in Westhall. Their son, also William, was christened 10 Feb 1783 in Westhall  and married  Martha Newby 29 May 1809 in Uggeshall. This William was my 3rd great grandfather. If you find any ties to your family, feel free to contact me off list. I believe I have seen the Stannard name in doing my research but could not find the reference to it in my quick look through my notes. Most of my work on the Clarke family was done nearly 10 years ago. Hope to hear from you.... Diane Crook On May 29, 2012, at 7:54:48 AM, Helena <[email protected]> wrote: From: Helena <[email protected]> Subject: [SFK-UK] CLARKE family in Westhall Date: May 29, 2012 7:54:48 AM EDT To: [email protected] Hi. I was wondering if anyone knows how I might access the parish records  for Westhall.... I did find that the early ones are available for viewing through an LDS  library, but the 1800 period for Westhall does not appear to be listed in  their catalog. I am in the US, so I do not have access to the Record Office. Thanks. Helena Researching CLARKE in Eye and Westhall, Suffolk. Specifically: William CLARKE and Mary STANNARD and their children. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message