With due respect to Cheryl I don't think it's quite right to see 'natural' as the equivalent of 'biological' and certainly not as an opposite to 'adopted'. It simply means that the child was born out of wedlock - his/her mother was not married to his/her father; in other words the child was illegitimate. Among the gentry and aristocracy, when fathers acknowledged an illegitimate child as their own, 'natural' was the term normally used to describe the child, as in 'The Duke of Monmouth was the natural son of Charles II'. As is so often the case in matters relating to sexual mores, there were many different ways of expressing this concept, 'natural' being one of the kindest. Many parsons would happily use the noun 'bastard' although 'base' or 'baseborn' were probably the most frequent. Attitudes to birth outside wedlock have changed considerably in recent years. I refrained from telling my mother that her great-grandfather was illegitimate when I discovered that her brother had been made very unhappy when I gave him the news. I was surprised when he said at the time, 'That means that my name isn't really what I've always believed it to be.' Since that day, I have always been very careful about what I have passed on to elderly relatives of what I have learned of our forebears. Both my mother and my uncle are deceased, or I should not be telling this story now. Best wishes to all, Michael Outlaw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne & Des Gentleman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 7:17 AM Subject: [SFK-UK] natural born? > Dear Listers, > i know i should know but what does the 'natural' mean in the entries > below please? > > > 11 January 1796 > > Charles natural son of Elizabeth Chilvers > > 25 February 1796 > > Honour natural daughter of Elizabeth Chilvers > > Sincerely Anne Gentleman > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

You are very welcome :) So glad that I was able to help and that these were your relatives. Sometimes it's hard to tell just from an index. Hugs, Paula On 23 October 2012 20:00, mcculley <[email protected]> wrote: > Paula, thank you so much. > It would seem that poor Hannah gave birth to at least six children and only > two were alive at the time of her death in 1841. My great grandfather was > one of those two! > You have been a really great help in fact provided some valuable information > . I went to the link and purchased credits (This family will send me > bankrupt!). The web site has provided the information that in 1834 and 1836 > two children belonging to William and Hannah were" buried in the burial > ground contiguous to the Baptist Meeting House in the parish of Beccles, > Suffolk" > This was taken from the Chapel Register. I was able to get a copy of the > original page. > However although that confirms that William and Hannah were Baptists the > register info only goes to 1837. I would assume that the other two children > who died were also buried there in 1838 and 1839. (Birth and death on BMD). > It would seem feasible that all the family were buried there, at least I > have a place to start. > Thank you again for your very helpful message. > Marj. > > PS The 1832 Hannah burial is not connected as she was 24. Of course it could > be a relative but I am not quite ready to go there yet!! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paula Hadgraft > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Warren Family > > Hi Marj, > > I did a search on the index at: http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk. They > have some non-conformist registers online and found in the index the > following deaths listed. > > Warren Hannah 1832 Burial > Suffolk RG4_2710 > > Warren William 1834 Burial > Suffolk RG4_1849 > > Warren Mother: Hannah Warren 1834 Burial Suffolk RG4_1833 > Father: William Warren > Warren Henry William Mother: Hannah Warren 1836 Burial Suffolk RG4_1833 > Father: William Warren > > I don't have any credits so can't find out exactly where the entries > are listed, but thought this may help at least. > > Take care, > > Paula > > On 23 October 2012 15:42, mcculley <[email protected]> wrote: >> Thank you very much Roy, Jenny and Kevin for your replies. >> I have received a very prompt reply from the record office at Lowestoft. >> Unfortunately it did not provide any new answers but was written by a very >> helpful person! >> He has also suggested I purchase the Loddon death certificate which I >> have >> done . >> He has given me a link to the Waveney district records office . I will >> contact them today. Apparently no inquest records exist from this early >> date. There is no burial documented for Hannah or William. >> Would it be feasible for Hannah's burial to have taken place back in >> Stonham >> Aspal? >> Kevin has certainly opened my mind to another suggestion, that being the >> strong possibility that we are dealing with a non conformist family. >> Hannah was a Tydeman from Stonham Aspal and William and all his siblings >> were born at Earl Stonham and baptized at the parish church. >> William and Hannah were married at the parish church in Stonham Aspal. >> However! >> As there are no baptisms shown in Beccles for Mary Ann and Harry (Children >> of William and Hannah) and no burials at the parish church I feel there is >> a >> chance I need to check non Conformist records ........How? >> Other background information. >> William had several brothers who were definitely non conformists and >> Harry >> (son of William and my great grandfather) later, as an adult, belonged to >> the Strict or Particular Baptists. >> Thomas, a Master Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841 married >> with >> six children . He later became a Baptist MInister. >> Henry,a Wheelwright and Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841. >> The >> birth of all his children was registered a the Stanwell Street Baptist >> Church in Colchester. >> Charles,the brother who was responsible for the legal side of things and >> auction of goods etc lived all his life in Earl Stonham and was not non >> conformist but I am wondering if Thomas or Henry could have been made >> responsible for the funeral( as they were non conformist and Charles was >> not) and therefore the BMD death reg March qtr 1844 in Colchester could >> be >> the right one. Unfortunately William Warren appears to be as common as >> John >> Smith in 1844! >> Apologies for this long email. >> Jenny, I have replied offline with Warren family details. >> Many thanks again >> Marj. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Kevin and Ken Thank you both for your helpful messages. Thank you Kevin for the information and the web site for Grace Baptist Church in Beccles. Thanks to Paula I now know that they did attend the Baptist Church in Beccles so at least I have a place to start. I will write to both the Record Office at the Grace Baptist Church and see if they can help me in any way. Apparently they did have a graveyard adjacent to the church in the 1830's although I am sure it would not be there now. Many thanks Ken for your suggestion which I will take up and make contact. Best wishes to you both Marj.

Paula, thank you so much. It would seem that poor Hannah gave birth to at least six children and only two were alive at the time of her death in 1841. My great grandfather was one of those two! You have been a really great help in fact provided some valuable information . I went to the link and purchased credits (This family will send me bankrupt!). The web site has provided the information that in 1834 and 1836 two children belonging to William and Hannah were" buried in the burial ground contiguous to the Baptist Meeting House in the parish of Beccles, Suffolk" This was taken from the Chapel Register. I was able to get a copy of the original page. However although that confirms that William and Hannah were Baptists the register info only goes to 1837. I would assume that the other two children who died were also buried there in 1838 and 1839. (Birth and death on BMD). It would seem feasible that all the family were buried there, at least I have a place to start. Thank you again for your very helpful message. Marj. PS The 1832 Hannah burial is not connected as she was 24. Of course it could be a relative but I am not quite ready to go there yet!! -----Original Message----- From: Paula Hadgraft Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Warren Family Hi Marj, I did a search on the index at: http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk. They have some non-conformist registers online and found in the index the following deaths listed. Warren Hannah 1832 Burial Suffolk RG4_2710 Warren William 1834 Burial Suffolk RG4_1849 Warren Mother: Hannah Warren 1834 Burial Suffolk RG4_1833 Father: William Warren Warren Henry William Mother: Hannah Warren 1836 Burial Suffolk RG4_1833 Father: William Warren I don't have any credits so can't find out exactly where the entries are listed, but thought this may help at least. Take care, Paula On 23 October 2012 15:42, mcculley <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you very much Roy, Jenny and Kevin for your replies. > I have received a very prompt reply from the record office at Lowestoft. > Unfortunately it did not provide any new answers but was written by a very > helpful person! > He has also suggested I purchase the Loddon death certificate which I > have > done . > He has given me a link to the Waveney district records office . I will > contact them today. Apparently no inquest records exist from this early > date. There is no burial documented for Hannah or William. > Would it be feasible for Hannah's burial to have taken place back in > Stonham > Aspal? > Kevin has certainly opened my mind to another suggestion, that being the > strong possibility that we are dealing with a non conformist family. > Hannah was a Tydeman from Stonham Aspal and William and all his siblings > were born at Earl Stonham and baptized at the parish church. > William and Hannah were married at the parish church in Stonham Aspal. > However! > As there are no baptisms shown in Beccles for Mary Ann and Harry (Children > of William and Hannah) and no burials at the parish church I feel there is > a > chance I need to check non Conformist records ........How? > Other background information. > William had several brothers who were definitely non conformists and > Harry > (son of William and my great grandfather) later, as an adult, belonged to > the Strict or Particular Baptists. > Thomas, a Master Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841 married > with > six children . He later became a Baptist MInister. > Henry,a Wheelwright and Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841. > The > birth of all his children was registered a the Stanwell Street Baptist > Church in Colchester. > Charles,the brother who was responsible for the legal side of things and > auction of goods etc lived all his life in Earl Stonham and was not non > conformist but I am wondering if Thomas or Henry could have been made > responsible for the funeral( as they were non conformist and Charles was > not) and therefore the BMD death reg March qtr 1844 in Colchester could > be > the right one. Unfortunately William Warren appears to be as common as > John > Smith in 1844! > Apologies for this long email. > Jenny, I have replied offline with Warren family details. > Many thanks again > Marj. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, Michael is right. Natural is a polite term for bastard. On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Michael Outlaw < [email protected]> wrote: > With due respect to Cheryl I don't think it's quite right to see 'natural' > as the equivalent of 'biological' and certainly not as an opposite to > 'adopted'. It simply means that the child was > born out of wedlock - his/her mother was not married to his/her father; in > other words the child was illegitimate. Among the gentry and aristocracy, > when fathers acknowledged an illegitimate child as their own, 'natural' > was the term normally used to describe the child, as in 'The Duke of > Monmouth was the natural son of Charles II'. > > As is so often the case in matters relating to sexual mores, there were > many > different ways of expressing this concept, 'natural' being one of the > kindest. Many parsons would happily use the noun 'bastard' although 'base' > or 'baseborn' were probably the most frequent. > > Attitudes to birth outside wedlock have changed considerably in recent > years. I refrained from telling my mother that her great-grandfather was > illegitimate when I discovered that her brother had been made very unhappy > when I gave him the news. I was surprised when he said at the time, 'That > means that my name isn't really what I've always believed it to be.' > > Since that day, I have always been very careful about what I have passed on > to elderly relatives of what I have learned of our forebears. Both my > mother and my uncle are deceased, or I should not be telling this > story now. > > Best wishes to all, > Michael Outlaw > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anne & Des Gentleman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 7:17 AM > Subject: [SFK-UK] natural born? > > > > Dear Listers, > > i know i should know but what does the 'natural' mean in the entries > > below please? > > > > > > 11 January 1796 > > > > Charles natural son of Elizabeth Chilvers > > > > 25 February 1796 > > > > Honour natural daughter of Elizabeth Chilvers > > > > Sincerely Anne Gentleman > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Folks, Every week or so (or whenever the digest gets to about 20 KB), I'm forwarding to the List those posts that have been "gatewayed" from RootsWeb's SUFFOLK Board that might contain information of interest to List subscribers, and here's the current "digest" of such gatewayed posts. If you wish to respond to any of these gatewayed posts, please do so by clicking on the relevant "Message Board URL:" link and NOT by responding either to the list OR to my address as the digest poster. Board posters will not see your List response unless they are also subscribed to the List, and most are not. PLEASE also be careful about responding to any post and inadvertently re-posting the ENTIRE digest to the list! More information on RootsWeb's Boards can be found in the FAQs at: http://www.RootsWeb.ancestry.com/ , where you will also find a link to the Boards' "home page". If you have any questions about the Boards or what the following is, pls contact me off-list at: mailto:[email protected] . Thanks, Peter SUFFOLK List Admin. -------------------------------------------------- Re: Parish Records, Norton, Suffolk This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: sharonmprice Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/2830.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Dear Brdiget, Your message is nearly 9 years old but I just found it! My father, Terry Price (80 years old) is doing our family tree and remembers visiting family in Norton. His Grandfather was David Price and several previous family members were called David Price. It would be great to be in contact to see where our family trees cross.. I hope this email reaches you. Kind regards, Sharon Price -------------------------------------------------- Re: Parish Records, Norton, Suffolk This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: sharonmprice Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/2830.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Dear Brdiget, Your message is nearly 9 years old but I just found it! My father, Terry Price (80 years old) is doing our family tree and remembers visiting family in Norton. His Grandfather was David Price and several previous family members were called David Price. It would be great to be in contact to see where our family trees cross.. I hope this email reaches you. Kind regards, Sharon Price -------------------------------------------------- Re: Parish Records, Norton, Suffolk This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: bewyer Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/2830.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Thanks for getting in touch Sharon, as you said that message was a long time ago, I have since found out that I was chasing the wrong David Price, so no match, sorry. -------------------------------------------------- WW2 civilian deaths This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wayne_ae Surnames: Classification: military Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8851/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi I am wondering if anyone would be able to help me with photo's or information on an event that occurred on the 22nd of July 1941 german bombing of Leonards Road Lowestoft. I have tried to find some information on this subject in relation to the deaths of Beatrice Harvey (maiden name Redgrave living in that street also in that street killed on the same day were Gertrude and Lily Redgrave. I have found a plague in the Roll of Honor for Lily but cannot find any other information I did come across photo's on line which I believe was in a book written by a Lowestoft local foolishley I didn't save the page. As some of the information I require I would like to add to our family tree Any help would be greatly appreciated Regards Amanda -------------------------------------------------- Re: Frederick Barnard (b 1857 Stowmarkt) Arabella Smart (b 1859 Kempston)This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: charlesffuller Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8850.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello, There's another way - join the Stowmarket area Rootsweb mailing list. The page http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-SFK-STOWMARKET.html gives information on how to do this. 25/07/1882 Frederick BARNARD (Single; Aged 25; Engine Driver; of Stowmarket; son of Henry Barnard, Labourer) married (by Certificate) Arabella SMART (Single; of Stowmarket; Aged 22; daughter of William Smart, Labourer) at Stowmarket Register Office. Witnessed by: John Flack, Mahala Flack. [This comes from one of the very many BARNARD marriage certificates I've bought.] I can't yet tell you who Henry's father was - there were three Samuel BARNARDs married to Sarah having children in Stowmarket in 1816 and the mother's maiden name is only recorded on baptisms for 1786-1812. The BARNARD families that originated from the Stowmarket area were prolific - I'm currently tracking about 1,700 of them between 1700 and 1901. For example, Frederick (whose birth registration is in the March 1857 quarter, Stow district, reference 4a 495) had 8 brothers and sisters. Both Frederick and Arabella are buried in grave W158 in Stowmarket Cemetery. If everything goes to plan I'll be photographing it next weekend when I'm visiting Suffolk. Regards, Charles Fuller. -------------------------------------------------- Lost emails This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: vicarbedders2 Surnames: Fisher and Stanley Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8852/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Would Leanne Clark who recently sent me 2 emails please resend them.They have disappeared and I would like to reply to them if I could. -------------------------------------------------- Re: KING Ipswich This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: RobertStephenson369 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8846.1.1.1.2.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Grytr, i have the Creeting St. Mary prs on fiche and searched the baptisms for a Susannah Elliott. She was baptized on March 23, 1856, fiche 5, entry 569,page 72. fathers name is William occ. carpenter, mothers name is Susan. Bob -------------------------------------------------- Re: Chapmans in Suffolk This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: GeraldWoollard Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/975.1125.1414.1604/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Paul, I've just seen your message "Capmans in Suffolk" would it be John Chapman of Gazeley married to Jane Plumb ?? .....Gerald........ -------------------------------------------------- Re: Frederick Barnard (b 1857 Stowmarkt) Arabella Smart (b 1859 Kempston) This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jarampley Surnames: Barnard, Smart Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8850.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thank you for the brilliant information. Stowmarket Registry Office can't trace the marriage but I'm going into town tomorrow so will try them again. I live in Stowmarket and Barnard is my late mother-in-laws maiden name, so I do have quiet abit of info regarding the family. I have here the father of Henry (1816 - 1893) as Samuel Barnard (1791 - 1876). BARNARD families from Stowmarket area are indeed prolific, can be a headache at times. My late mother-in-law is burried in Stowmarket Cemetry as are her parents, William BARNARD and Alice Maud GARNHAM. Their grave is marked and easy to locate but don't know the grave number. Interesting that you have 8 brothers and sisters for Frederick (1857) I only have 7, hmmmm need to do more homework I think. Are you connected to my BARNARD then? If so, you are the first I've been in touch with. Regards Jackie Rampley -------------------------------------------------- Re: WW2 civilian deaths This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: silvery194 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8851.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have found the Lowestoft R.O. very helpful, they would probably have local papers on fiche if you are able to go there or would send copies for a fee or alternatively suggest other sources. -------------------------------------------------- Re: Frederick Barnard (b 1857 Stowmarkt) Arabella Smart (b 1859 Kempston) This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: charlesffuller Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8850.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello, It may be easier to contact me directly - my e-mail address is charles [dot] fuller [at] btinternet.com . Or, if you're planning to visit the Family History Fair at Needham Market on Saturday 20th. October (see http://www.suffolkfhs.org.uk/meet_us.html for details), I'll be in the Internet Cafe next door as one of the Suffolk FHS people providing help and advice. If you bring along a memory stick, I can provide copies of some of the information I hold. I'm staying at the Bull Inn in Woolpit from Friday 19th. until the morning of Thursday 25th. October. I'm a direct descendant of Jane Barnard (1769-1832), daughter of Charles (1745-1829) and Ruth of Stowmarket. Unfortunately Charles' baptism gives parents who are so far untraceable (if the mother's name is correct), so I'm not certain whether we're distantly related. Regards, Charles Fuller. -------------------------------------------------- Re: Frederick Barnard (b 1857 Stowmarkt) Arabella Smart (b 1859 Kempston) This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jarampley Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8850.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Charles I've replied to you by email as suggested. Regards Jackie -------------------------------------------------- Re: WW2 civilian deaths This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wayne_ae Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8851.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Silvery194 Thank you for your reply could you tell me what the Lowestoft R.O. is as I live in Australia, I'm not sure if this is the name of a newspaper Amanda -------------------------------------------------- Re: WW2 civilian deaths This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: silvery194 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8851.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Sorry Amanda I didn't realise that you lived so far away! It's the Lowestoft Record Office which holds all sorts of records about that area of Suffolk. On a visit several years ago they produced a local paper with details of my grandmother's funeral. Wish I was able to go and research for you but am the other end of the country. Will see if they have an e-mail so that you can contact them. Back soon. Yvonne -------------------------------------------------- Re: WW2 civilian deaths This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: silvery194 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8851.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: e-mail [email protected] Fax 01502 405 350 'phone 01502 405 351 Good hunting Y -------------------------------------------------- Re: WW2 civilian deaths This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wayne_ae Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8851.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks for all the help I'll give it a go and see where it leads -------------------------------------------------- Parish Look Up Stoke By Nayland This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: hobbes130 Surnames: Sympson Simpson Classification: lookup Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8853/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Just wondering if anyone has the parish records for Stoke by Nayland and could look something up for me or if anyone is visiting the Bury Record Office in the near future and could look at the records for me I would be very grateful. I would like to find the Birth and Marriage Record for Joseph Sympson (Simpson spelling changes) I really need to try and verify who his parent were I have them currently as Isabella Darcy and Rev. Sidrach Sympson but this just doesnt fit right. Any help would be most appreciated. I have this information to go on Birth 1614 Stoke By Nayland Marriage to Ann Collins 26 April 1640 Stoke By Nayland (Ann's father was Henry) -------------------------------------------------- Re: KING Ipswich This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Grytr Surnames: ELLIOT Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8846.1.1.1.2.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thank you RobertStephenson369. Much appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- webb - suffolk This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: lornabeavis58 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8854/mb.ashx Message Board Post: hi, i am looking for details about my fathers side of the family. my father was not born in suffolk but his parents originated from around theipswich area off suffolk. both his parents married in suffolk, john henry webb and dolcie mortimer leech. then his sister barbara webb married her husband joseph christofaro before emigrating to america and starting her family. then thaere is there other brother gordon who is believed to have a lorry business in the ipswich area who is the person whomi would love to trace at the moment if not his immediate family or any one that knows them. i am also looking to find any cousins in the area. thanks lorna -------------------------------------------------- William SPURLING 1853 This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: vivcook45 Surnames: SPURLING Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.sfk.general/8856/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am also trying to find out more information about my great grandfather who lived in suffolk all his life and who died in approx 1940 in a mental hospital. Does anyone know where I can find out that information? Thanks Viv --------------------------------------------------

Dear Listers I am looking for any other sources of info about Bungay area from the 1780's to the 1840's other than parish records. Can anyone help me please. Sincerely Anne Gentleman

Dear Listers, i know i should know but what does the 'natural' mean in the entries below please? 11 January 1796 Charles natural son of Elizabeth Chilvers 25 February 1796 Honour natural daughter of Elizabeth Chilvers Sincerely Anne Gentleman

Hi Marj, I did a search on the index at: http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk. They have some non-conformist registers online and found in the index the following deaths listed. Warren Hannah 1832 Burial Suffolk RG4_2710 Warren William 1834 Burial Suffolk RG4_1849 Warren Mother: Hannah Warren 1834 Burial Suffolk RG4_1833 Father: William Warren Warren Henry William Mother: Hannah Warren 1836 Burial Suffolk RG4_1833 Father: William Warren I don't have any credits so can't find out exactly where the entries are listed, but thought this may help at least. Take care, Paula On 23 October 2012 15:42, mcculley <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you very much Roy, Jenny and Kevin for your replies. > I have received a very prompt reply from the record office at Lowestoft. > Unfortunately it did not provide any new answers but was written by a very > helpful person! > He has also suggested I purchase the Loddon death certificate which I have > done . > He has given me a link to the Waveney district records office . I will > contact them today. Apparently no inquest records exist from this early > date. There is no burial documented for Hannah or William. > Would it be feasible for Hannah's burial to have taken place back in Stonham > Aspal? > Kevin has certainly opened my mind to another suggestion, that being the > strong possibility that we are dealing with a non conformist family. > Hannah was a Tydeman from Stonham Aspal and William and all his siblings > were born at Earl Stonham and baptized at the parish church. > William and Hannah were married at the parish church in Stonham Aspal. > However! > As there are no baptisms shown in Beccles for Mary Ann and Harry (Children > of William and Hannah) and no burials at the parish church I feel there is a > chance I need to check non Conformist records ........How? > Other background information. > William had several brothers who were definitely non conformists and Harry > (son of William and my great grandfather) later, as an adult, belonged to > the Strict or Particular Baptists. > Thomas, a Master Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841 married with > six children . He later became a Baptist MInister. > Henry,a Wheelwright and Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841. The > birth of all his children was registered a the Stanwell Street Baptist > Church in Colchester. > Charles,the brother who was responsible for the legal side of things and > auction of goods etc lived all his life in Earl Stonham and was not non > conformist but I am wondering if Thomas or Henry could have been made > responsible for the funeral( as they were non conformist and Charles was > not) and therefore the BMD death reg March qtr 1844 in Colchester could be > the right one. Unfortunately William Warren appears to be as common as John > Smith in 1844! > Apologies for this long email. > Jenny, I have replied offline with Warren family details. > Many thanks again > Marj. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: Anne & Des Gentleman <[email protected]> > Dear Listers, > i know i should know but what does the 'natural' mean in the > entries > below please? > > > 11 January 1796 > > Charles natural son of Elizabeth Chilvers > > 25 February 1796 > > Honour natural daughter of Elizabeth Chilvers > > Sincerely Anne Gentleman > It means she was the biological mother of two children who were illegitimate, not adopted. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Illegitimate or base born Aka spurious, filius populi etc -------Original Message------- From: Anne & Des Gentleman Date: 23/10/2012 15:47:29 To: [email protected] Subject: [SFK-UK] natural born? Dear Listers, i know i should know but what does the 'natural' mean in the entries below please? 11 January 1796 Charles natural son of Elizabeth Chilvers 25 February 1796 Honour natural daughter of Elizabeth Chilvers Sincerely Anne Gentleman ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you very much Roy, Jenny and Kevin for your replies. I have received a very prompt reply from the record office at Lowestoft. Unfortunately it did not provide any new answers but was written by a very helpful person! He has also suggested I purchase the Loddon death certificate which I have done . He has given me a link to the Waveney district records office . I will contact them today. Apparently no inquest records exist from this early date. There is no burial documented for Hannah or William. Would it be feasible for Hannah's burial to have taken place back in Stonham Aspal? Kevin has certainly opened my mind to another suggestion, that being the strong possibility that we are dealing with a non conformist family. Hannah was a Tydeman from Stonham Aspal and William and all his siblings were born at Earl Stonham and baptized at the parish church. William and Hannah were married at the parish church in Stonham Aspal. However! As there are no baptisms shown in Beccles for Mary Ann and Harry (Children of William and Hannah) and no burials at the parish church I feel there is a chance I need to check non Conformist records ........How? Other background information. William had several brothers who were definitely non conformists and Harry (son of William and my great grandfather) later, as an adult, belonged to the Strict or Particular Baptists. Thomas, a Master Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841 married with six children . He later became a Baptist MInister. Henry,a Wheelwright and Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841. The birth of all his children was registered a the Stanwell Street Baptist Church in Colchester. Charles,the brother who was responsible for the legal side of things and auction of goods etc lived all his life in Earl Stonham and was not non conformist but I am wondering if Thomas or Henry could have been made responsible for the funeral( as they were non conformist and Charles was not) and therefore the BMD death reg March qtr 1844 in Colchester could be the right one. Unfortunately William Warren appears to be as common as John Smith in 1844! Apologies for this long email. Jenny, I have replied offline with Warren family details. Many thanks again Marj.

I assume that "natural" means biologic as opposed to "adopted". On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Anne & Des Gentleman < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear Listers, > i know i should know but what does the 'natural' mean in the entries > below please? > > > 11 January 1796 > > Charles natural son of Elizabeth Chilvers > > 25 February 1796 > > Honour natural daughter of Elizabeth Chilvers > > Sincerely Anne Gentleman > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Have you tried Ann Young who not only does the burial search but also the MI one for Suffolk FHS. She has led the team who have trascrided records of the area as well as graveyard transcriptions (our website gives contact details) Ken Finch -------------------------------------------------- From: "mcculley" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:42 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Warren Family > Thank you very much Roy, Jenny and Kevin for your replies. > I have received a very prompt reply from the record office at Lowestoft. > Unfortunately it did not provide any new answers but was written by a very > helpful person! > He has also suggested I purchase the Loddon death certificate which I > have > done . > He has given me a link to the Waveney district records office . I will > contact them today. Apparently no inquest records exist from this early > date. There is no burial documented for Hannah or William. > Would it be feasible for Hannah's burial to have taken place back in > Stonham > Aspal? > Kevin has certainly opened my mind to another suggestion, that being the > strong possibility that we are dealing with a non conformist family. > Hannah was a Tydeman from Stonham Aspal and William and all his siblings > were born at Earl Stonham and baptized at the parish church. > William and Hannah were married at the parish church in Stonham Aspal. > However! > As there are no baptisms shown in Beccles for Mary Ann and Harry (Children > of William and Hannah) and no burials at the parish church I feel there is > a > chance I need to check non Conformist records ........How? > Other background information. > William had several brothers who were definitely non conformists and > Harry > (son of William and my great grandfather) later, as an adult, belonged to > the Strict or Particular Baptists. > Thomas, a Master Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841 married > with > six children . He later became a Baptist MInister. > Henry,a Wheelwright and Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841. > The > birth of all his children was registered a the Stanwell Street Baptist > Church in Colchester. > Charles,the brother who was responsible for the legal side of things and > auction of goods etc lived all his life in Earl Stonham and was not non > conformist but I am wondering if Thomas or Henry could have been made > responsible for the funeral( as they were non conformist and Charles was > not) and therefore the BMD death reg March qtr 1844 in Colchester could > be > the right one. Unfortunately William Warren appears to be as common as > John > Smith in 1844! > Apologies for this long email. > Jenny, I have replied offline with Warren family details. > Many thanks again > Marj. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marj, There was and still is a Baptist Church in Beccles. They were "Strict & Particular", but these churches are now known as "Grace Baptist" in Suffolk. http://www.becclesbaptistchurch.co.uk/x_home1.asp As you may know, Baptists do not practice infant baptism so the only possible record would be of adult "believer's baptism". However, there are records of some Baptist churches in Suffolk where births of member's children were recorded in a register. Sadly, few have survived. The same applies to burials. Many Suffolk Baptist churches had their own graveyard, however, as the Beccles church is in the town centre this might not be the case there. Your contact at the Record Office in Lowestoft would be able to tell you if they have any of the church records deposited there. Alternatively you could contact the church to see if they hold anything. Stonham also has a Baptist church who were once part of the Strict Baptist Association of Churches. They do not appear to have a website, but their address is STONHAM BAPTIST COMMUNITY CHURCH NORWICH ROAD, STONHAM PARVA STOWMARKET SUFFOLK IP14 5JT Hope this helps! Kevin -----Original Message----- From: mcculley Sent: 23 October 2012 05:42 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Warren Family Thank you very much Roy, Jenny and Kevin for your replies. I have received a very prompt reply from the record office at Lowestoft. Unfortunately it did not provide any new answers but was written by a very helpful person! He has also suggested I purchase the Loddon death certificate which I have done . He has given me a link to the Waveney district records office . I will contact them today. Apparently no inquest records exist from this early date. There is no burial documented for Hannah or William. Would it be feasible for Hannah's burial to have taken place back in Stonham Aspal? Kevin has certainly opened my mind to another suggestion, that being the strong possibility that we are dealing with a non conformist family. Hannah was a Tydeman from Stonham Aspal and William and all his siblings were born at Earl Stonham and baptized at the parish church. William and Hannah were married at the parish church in Stonham Aspal. However! As there are no baptisms shown in Beccles for Mary Ann and Harry (Children of William and Hannah) and no burials at the parish church I feel there is a chance I need to check non Conformist records ........How? Other background information. William had several brothers who were definitely non conformists and Harry (son of William and my great grandfather) later, as an adult, belonged to the Strict or Particular Baptists. Thomas, a Master Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841 married with six children . He later became a Baptist MInister. Henry,a Wheelwright and Coachsmith, was living in Colchester in 1841. The birth of all his children was registered a the Stanwell Street Baptist Church in Colchester. Charles,the brother who was responsible for the legal side of things and auction of goods etc lived all his life in Earl Stonham and was not non conformist but I am wondering if Thomas or Henry could have been made responsible for the funeral( as they were non conformist and Charles was not) and therefore the BMD death reg March qtr 1844 in Colchester could be the right one. Unfortunately William Warren appears to be as common as John Smith in 1844! Apologies for this long email. Jenny, I have replied offline with Warren family details. Many thanks again Marj. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ruth Mary, daughter of Samuel and Ann ADAMS, was buried on 2 Oct. 1781 at Bury St Edmunds, St James (Suffolk FHS Burial Index). If you want to confirm the marriage data with your own eyes, the LDS FHC film number is 887392 (see https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJFT-XXZ, where Ann RIDLEY has become "Bidlsy"). A more reliable transcript, printed in 1916, is available from the Internet Archive (http://archive.org/details/burystedmunds00stja). On page 200 you can see that Samuel was living in Walsham le Willows when he was married by licence ("L.") and the witnesses were John RIDLEY jun., Thomas RIDLEY, Susan RIDLEY and Mary ADAMS. The Internet Archive also has a transcript of the marriage licence allegation (http://archive.org/details/allegationsforma70chur) or bond (number 227 on page 360) showing that John RIDLEY junior of Bury St Edmunds acted as a bondsman for that licence in 1777, as did a Samuel ADAMS (possibly not the same one!) in 1780, for the marriage licence of Mary ADAMS of Chevington and James REYNOLDS of St James, Bury St Edmunds (number 75 on page 378). Best of luck David Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 07:58:42 +1100 From: "Ruth" <[email protected]> Subject: [SFK-UK] ADAMS and RIDLEY Hi, Does anyone have access to records for Samuel ADAMS and Ann RIDLEY, eg dob, children.  I have a marriage date of 27 10 1777, in St James, Bury ST Edmunds and able to do lookup, Can anyone confirm this with a source please, Regards Ruth Australia

Hi Marj Sorry, I hadn't read Roy's response to you when I sent my email. I see he has written the death notice details on his. In case it helps these below are the likely baptisms for my family in Colchester. This William's baptism is only a few years from your William's birth year and I noted a Hannah Warren was a school mistress, aged 30 in 1841 in Lexden. Not sure whether she was married. Maybe no connection but you never know. I looked through the Beccles baptisms for alternative spellings such as ORRIN but there was nothing that may have even sounded like Warren. Baptisms at Colchester St Giles WARREN Sarah d/o William & Sarah 26 Apr 1779 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN James of William Sarah 18 Feb 1791 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN Thomas of William Sarah 18 Feb 1791 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN William of William Sarah 18 Feb 1791 bapt Colchester St Giles ORRIN John of William Sarah 29 Jul 1794 bap Colchester St Giles

Hi Marj I have Beccles PRs but there are no baptisms for Warrens between 1831 & 1839. There were a couple of baptisms around 1816 however. I am interested in the Ipswich Journal burial you mention for William as I have found a William Warren buried in Lexden, Essex on 28 January 1844 and wondered whether the death notice might actually be for the one below since there are only a few days between the death and burials. Would you be able to send me a copy please? I think the below person may be the brother of my ancestor Sarah Warren as a William was a witness at the wedding of her daughter and I have a baptism for William in 1791 in Colchester, Essex to the same parents except with the surname spelt ORRIN. My Lexden family moved to Ipswich later on so there is a connection between the two places. Here is some information about the one I have. If I can be of further help let me know Jenny Descendants of William Warren 　 Generation No. 1 1. WILLIAM1 WARREN was born Abt. 1778, and died January 1844 in Lexden, Essex. He married JUDITH RUDLAND September 29, 1796 in St Leonards, Lexden, Essex1. She was born Abt. 17782, and died February 1844 in Mar qtr, Colchester district. Notes for WILLIAM WARREN: Possible brother of my Sarah. 1841 census Water Lane, Lexden (deceased in 1851) WARREN William 60 ag lab Essex WARREN Judith 60 Essex More About WILLIAM WARREN: Age at burial: 66 years Burial: January 28, 1844, Lexden, St Leonards, Essex2 More About JUDITH RUDLAND: Age at burial: 66 years Burial: February 18, 1844, Lexden, St Leonards, Essex2 Marriage Notes for WILLIAM WARREN and JUDITH RUDLAND: witn: Edmund Clarke, Lucy Buckingham. By C Mustard Endnotes 1. 1565606. 2. NBI. Other notes Baptisms in Lexden. William Warren son of William and Judith bap 20 Jul 1800, buried 3 Sep 1828 Lexden, Ess age 28 Mary Ann d/of Warren William and Judith bap 7 Jan 1790 Lexden, Ess (a William Warren mar Judith Bell, 13 Nov 1798 Exning, Sfk. This Wm was the son of Martin & Mary Warren and bap 16 Sep 1778 Exning, Sfk so probably not the one above.) (There was a William Warren bap 3 Oct 1779 Loughton, Essex s/o Thomas & Lydia) > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcculley > Sent: 22 October 2012 10:13 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [SFK-UK] Warren Family > > I am wondering if anyone has the PR’S for Beccles. > I am looking for any possible births between 1831 and 1839 to William and > Hannah WARREN > I have Hannah’s death in 1841. Unfortunately no GRO registration has been > found for William’s death although I have found a record of his death in > the Ipswich Journal and therefore know he did die 19th January 1844. It > seems important for me to find out the cause of death. > It has been suggested I purchase death certificate for that time in Loddon, > Norfolk which I see is only on the other side of the river. > I am also wondering if there is any record of his burial in the Burial > Index. The family were well educated so I am sure there would be a record > somewhere. The thought has occurred to me that it may be a case of suicide > and therefore hushed up although wondered if there would then be an inquest. > > I have reached a dead end here and would suggestions! > Many thanks > Marj. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you very much Roy for your comments. The Loddon certificate which I have ordered is March qtr 1844 which I thought may be a possibility. If it is not, I have run out of ideas! It seems strange that there would be no record of his death especially as it was so well reported in the newspaper. I have contacted Lowestoft record office to see if they may have a missing link. Many thanks again Marj. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 9:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SFK-UK] Warren Family From: "mcculley" <[email protected]> > I am wondering if anyone has the PR´S for Beccles. > I am looking for any possible births between 1831 and 1839 to > William and Hannah WARREN > I have Hannah´s death in 1841. Unfortunately no GRO registration > has been found for William´s death although I have found a record > of his death in the Ipswich Journal and therefore know he did die > 19th January 1844. It seems important for me to find out the cause > of death. > It has been suggested I purchase death certificate for that time in > Loddon, Norfolk which I see is only on the other side of the > river. > I am also wondering if there is any record of his burial in the > Burial Index. The family were well educated so I am sure there would > be a record somewhere. The thought has occurred to me that it may be > a case of suicide and therefore hushed up although wondered if there > would then be an inquest.> As far as I am aware, suicide cases were not "hushed up", as you put it, even in the 1840s, no matter how well educated or well-off the family were. Indeed, if he was well known it's more likely to be have been reported! If it was a suicide, then there would have had to be an inquest which should have been reported in a local newspaper somewhere. Nor was it normally possible to bury someone without the death being recorded. FreeBMD has a record of a William Warren who died at Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, in the June quarter of 1844 (vol 13, page 311). This could be a possible if there was some reason for the death being registered late. Equally, the one at Loddon could also be a possible, though it's across the Suffolk-Norfolk county border and even later. However, I note that the notice in the Ipswich Journal to which you refer says that William Warren, "wheelwright of this place", died at Beccles on 19th January 1844, aged 49. That being the case, unless whoever inserted the death notice was lying - and it has been known - it seems unlikely that either of the two above records were for him. The 19th Century British Newspapers website (the older Gale CenGage one, not the more recent site) also has on 24 February 1844 a largish notice in the Ipswich Journal advertising the sale of William Warren's property in Smallgate Street, Beccles, "late the property of Mr William Warren, gigmaker and wheelwright, deceased." There is a description of the property and its value, plus below is another notice advising any debtors or creditors to contact solicitors. Identical notices appeared in the same newspaper on 2 March 1844. A further notice on 30 March advertised the sale of William Warren's household effects, bed and table linen and a pony trap, etc. William Warren also appears as a wheelwright in Smallgate St, Beccles, in Pigot's Directory of Suffolk 1839 at www.historicaldirectories.org It is always possible that for some reason his death record didn't make it to the GRO, which is why it's certainly a good idea to ask if anyone can look at the Beccles PRs. In the early days of civil registration there were missing entries, but that was more common with births rather than marriages and deaths. Personally, I think that if he had committed suicide there would have been an inquest report since he was obviously a well-known tradesman in the town. Things like that couldn't be hushed up even in those days - that is a bit of a conscpiracy theory! -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am wondering if anyone has the PR’S for Beccles. I am looking for any possible births between 1831 and 1839 to William and Hannah WARREN I have Hannah’s death in 1841. Unfortunately no GRO registration has been found for William’s death although I have found a record of his death in the Ipswich Journal and therefore know he did die 19th January 1844. It seems important for me to find out the cause of death. It has been suggested I purchase death certificate for that time in Loddon, Norfolk which I see is only on the other side of the river. I am also wondering if there is any record of his burial in the Burial Index. The family were well educated so I am sure there would be a record somewhere. The thought has occurred to me that it may be a case of suicide and therefore hushed up although wondered if there would then be an inquest. I have reached a dead end here and would suggestions! Many thanks Marj.