<<<Gloria, on a second point, You give the descendants of George Stump. It appears that these are from Thurman Stump's book. I have just examined his book and can not find those that you listed. Thurman does list the descendants of Michael Stump II, the line from which he descended. Would you please tell us the source of your list of George Stump's descendants? Jwneff@bridgernet.com>>> - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ JW, ALL INFO I HAVE CAME FROM ((Thurman Stump's Book)) & From Other People On Stump List. THANK YOU VERY MUCH For Your Response & EXTRA INFO, Will It Keep On File. BUT!! Until It Is Positively Proven Different & I Get Word From His Daughter Emma or Another Member of Our Family I Will Keep My File The Way It Is, Others May Change Their Files If They Want, That Is Up To Them. Gloria Powers Husk 114 Arizona Street Carrabelle, Fl. 32322 http://www.gloryway.com < Download GEDCOM Here. http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/h/u/s/Gloria-J-Husk/ ----- Original Message ----- From: J W Neff <jwneff@bridgernet.com> To: Gloria Husk <gjhusk@gloryway.com> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 1999 4:48 AM Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Stump Gloria, You may know that I do not agree with Mr. Thurman Stump on his thesis that Michael Stump Sr came to America on the Phoenix in 1743. The Michael Stump that arrived on the Phoenix in 1743 was from Schwaigern Germany. Please note the following record: 1743 Burgert Eighteenth Century Emigrants from German-Speaking Lands to North America Vol I The Northern Kraichgau 1983 p 364 STUMPF, JOH. MICHAEL Phoenix,30 Sep 1743 S-H 346 SCHWAIGERN LUTHERN KB m. 20 Nov 1703 Hans Diter Stumpff, son of Gideon Stumpff, citizen and carpenter, and Anna Catharina, daughter of Bechtold Zimmermann, wagonmaster and citizen. They had: Hans Michael bp. 16 Nov 1705 m. 13 Nov 1731 Johann Michael Stumpff, cabinetmaker, son of the late Dieter Stumpff, and Anna Margaretha, daughter of Joh. Philipp Emmerich. They had: 1. Maria Barbara b 1 Aug 1732 2. Anna Rosina b. 24 Apr 1734 3. Anna Elisabeth b. 21 Oct 1736 4. Christian b 22 Sep 1739 5. Johann Melchior b 27 Jun 1742 American Record: LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA HOLY TRINITY LUTHERN KB: b. 6 Nov 1748 Gottlieb Stumph, son of Michael and Anna Margaretha. b. 13 Jun 1763, Elizabeth Stump, dau of Michael and Rosina FREDERICK, MD. LUTHERN KB: Michael Stumpff and wife Anna Margretha were sp. On 10 Oct 1758 Bu. 1 Sept 1794 Balthasar Bach's wife Rosina b. 24 Apr 1734 in "Schweigenheim" in Germany. Parents Michael Stumpf and his wife Margareth. 30 Oct 1753 she m. her surviving widower and had 5 daughters and 2 sons of whom 3 daughters are dead. Died of a chest disease, complicated by typhoid fever Aug 31, the 11th Sunday after Trinity, 9 a.m., aged 60 years, 4 mo, and 1 week. M 40 years, 10 mo. 1775 Berks County Estate Records Stump, Michael, Rockland Twp 8 May 1775 Michael Stump to Gottlieb Stump of town of Reading in the County of Berks in the said Province, Painter, son of Michael Stump late of twp of Rockland in the said County Painter deceased (page 130) (It is obvious that the Michael Stump on the Phoenix settled in Lancaster county, Had another child, Gottlieb Stump and he died there in 1775.) There is another record that pertains to the lineage of Michael Stump Sr. of Hardy County. 1728 Burgert Eighteenth Century Emigrants from German-Speaking Lands to North America Vol I The Northern Kraichgau 1983 p 270 395. NEFF, MICHAEL 6921 Michelfeld James Goodwill, 1728 S-H 21,22 MICHELFELD LUTHERN KB: Michael Neff, b. 21 Feb 1687, son of Joh. Jacob Neff, m. 11 Nov 1710 Anna Dorothea, daughter of Herr Hans Jacob Saur, citizen and "Gerichtsverwandten" . Children: 1. Johann Michael b 23 Jul 1712 2. Joh. Jaccob b 13 Feb 1715 3. Anna Catharina b 27 Nov 1716 4. Georg Abraham b 2 Oct 1749 5. Maria Catharina b 25 Jan 1723; d. 1725 6. Hans Leonhard b 8 Mar 1725 Pennsylvania records: Michael Neff had: Joh. Georg. B 1 Dec 1729; bp 3 May 1730 Anna Catharina Neff, single, is a bp sp. In 1733. She later married in Tulpehocken on 10 Sep 1739 Michael Stump (Stoever's records) (Keith Dull, Early Families of Lancaster, Lebanon & Dauphin Counties, Pennsylvania p 99 shows another daughter of Michael and Anna Dorothea - Anna Marie b. on the Atlantic Ocean, abt 1727(sic 1728) and m. John Schaeffer of Schafferstown.) m. 1747 Tuesday after Dom. 17 p. Trin Leonhard Neef, single son of the church deacon Michael Neef, and Elizabeth Magdalena Feg, single dau. Of the late Leonard Feg. Lancaster co. deeds C-170, 13 May 1748, names Anna Maria [Miller] stepdaughter of Erasmus Buchemeyer [also of Michelfeld] as wife of Michael Neff. Anna Maria Naefen, Lancaaster Co., wife of Michael Naefen nat. Philadelphia 26 Sep 1748. Abraham Netf (sic) and Jacob Netf (sic) Tulpehocken twp., Lancaster Co., nat. Philadelphia Apr 1761. 1728, 11 Sep 1728 Passenger ship lists Ship "James Goodwill," David Crockatt, Master from Rotterdam. List 8B Michael Neff Johann Casper Stoever Johann Casper Stoever (These two Stoevers are famous Luthern ministers, Stoever, Sr., the father, labored in Virginia; Stoever,Jr., the son, in Pennsylvania. Michael Neff, from Michelfeld, Baden, Germany, was accompanied by his wife and children, one of which was Anna Catherine Neff that married Michael Stump on 10 Sep 1739, at Tulpehocken Luthern Church}. (An examination of these records gives fairly conclusive proof that these two families originated in Schwaigern, Germany and Michelfeld, Germany and migrated to Lancaster County, Pa. In the case of the Neff family we have two children, Anna Catherine and Leonard Neff born in Michelfeld, children of Michael Neff. Anna Catherine married Michael Stump and Leonard Neff married Elizabeth Feg. Both these families disappeared from Lancaster county between 1739 and 1747. Two couples of the same names appear in Hampshire county living next door to each other in 1748. What are the odds of such a coincidence? We know that Michael Stump Sr's wife was named Catherine and we also know that Leonard Neff of Hardy county was married to an Elizabeth. It is well known that many of the families in Hampshire County came from the Tulpehocken area of Pennsylvania. What proof does Thurman Stump provide to prove that the Michael Stump born in Eberbach, Germany in 1709 migrated to Hampshire County? He doesn't have any circumstancial evidence of such a tie in. He only has the date of birth. No wife, no children, no brothers and sisters migrating. No record connecting Michael Stump Sr to Eberbach. If he didn't come on the Phoenix in 1743 when and how did he come? In all fairness to Thurman Stump, he completed his book in 1975 and apparently did not have access to the Schwaigern information. I'm sure if he had he would have reached a different conclusion.)