Hi Brenda and Pam.... The details are all on the DNA Study page, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/dnastudy.htm#members Price depends on whether you select a 12 marker or a 25 marker test. The 12 - marker test is US$99.00, and the 25 - marker test is US$169.00. Details on how to join the study are also at the above website. Whether to choose the 12 or the 25 marker test is a value judgement. Budgetary constraints may point toward the 12 marker test... and I know that the New Zealand currency probably measures up unfavorably against the US dollar at the moment. However, the 25 marker test does seem to have advantages. For one thing, it is cheaper over-all to go for it up front rather than to subsequently decide to upgrade. An upgrade costs about $15-20 more than if you just got the 25 marker test in the first place.... eg., total is about $189... Maybe a group of you can go together and jointly share the cost, thus bringing the individual "bite" into a manageable range! I just received the following info from Family Tree DNA which, although more detail than you want, may be of interest re this. FTDNA concludes that the 25 marker test is more useful and cost effective in the long run. Note, (we are dealing with statistical probabilities here) if we can get a 25/25 match out of the 25 marker test, FTDNA is saying there is a 50/50 (or "median") chance that we have a common ancestor within 7 generations or 140 years (assuming a 20 year average per generation). For myself, I can trace my Strong ancestry back to my gggrandfather, circa 1775-1839. That means I am the 5th of the 7 generations in the example... and my birth year minus his birth year 1940-1775=165 years; 165 / 5 = 33 years per generation. Obviously there are some differences between reality and the assumptions. However, the statistical prediction indicates that if your male Strong relative and I match 25/25, it is likely that just two more generations back, we have a 50/50 likelihood of sharing a common ancestor. That would considerably narrow the research possibilities for both of us and we could concentrate our efforts on finding the records pointing to a common ancestor given the possible coincidence and sharing of our research findings. And, we could rule out a whole world of other possibilites, thus saving ourselves a lot of wasted effort! Further, the more of us that get tested, the more likely it is that we will find someone with a 25/25 match! {:-) (See FTDNA article cut and pasted in below) Regards Dave Strong ... DNA Study Coordinator & webmaster: Book I: RESEARCHING STRONG(E) AND STRANG(E) IN GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/contents.htm Database and manuscript. See especially Chap. 13, entitled "Lineages"; and Chapt. 15, "DNA Study" http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/dnastudy.htm & Book II: THE DONEGAL STRONG PUZZLE: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/indxdrft.htm Research and study of Counties Donegal and Fermanagh Strongs and related families. ============================================================== "Understanding your results: Are we related? =========================================== (Copyright 2002, Family Tree DNA): "Facts & Genes" (http://www.familytreeDNA.com/facts_genes.asp) : "If we start with the fact that all people are related, the issue becomes when did the common ancestor for the two people occur. Regarding our genealogy research, are we really interested in investing time in a link with someone where they are related within 10,000 years? Probably not. "DNA testing is not a substitute for genealogy research. Instead, it is a companion tool to prove or disprove research, determine relationships, and to provide clues for further research. DNA testing can be an extremely powerful tool when combined with your genealogy research. You can uncover information that was not previously known, as well as confirm your research, and get leads for further research. "When analyzing results from the 12 Marker and 25 Marker Y Chromosome DNA test, it is important to factor the time frame of the common ancestor into your analysis. For our purposes here, we will assume a generation is 20 years. The time frame of the common ancestor tells you if the common ancestor lived within the time frame of paper records. Let's consider the example below for Surname Project ABC. The column labeled "# matches" shows the number of matches. The "median" and "95%" columns show the number of generations at the median, and at 95% confidence. The "Years" column gives the year time frame of the common ancestor using 20 years per generation. The first column under "Years" is for the Median, the second years column is at 95% confidence. # matches Median 95% Years ======= ====== === ========== 12/12 14 77 280 1540 25/25 7 37 140 740 11/12 37 122 740 2440 24/25 17 57 340 1140 10/12 61 166 1220 3320 23/25 28 76 560 1520 "In our hypothetical Surname Project shown above, we have a variety of matches. The example uses 20 years per generation. If a higher number of years per generation is used, such as 25 or 30 years per generation, then the number of years for the common ancestor increases dramatically. Therefore, at 20 years per generation, we have shown the lowest number of years to the common ancestor. "It is clear in the chart above how a mutation effects the time frame, and that the 25 Marker test reduces the time frame of the common ancestor significantly. This is illustrated by comparing a 12/12 match to a 25/25 match. For a 12/12 match, the median, or most likely, time frame is within 280 years, and for 25/25 is within about 140 years. The 95% confidence level has a wide spread for years, with 1540 years for 12/12 and 740 years for 25/25. "In reviewing the chart above, it is evident that the 25 Marker test is the optimal choice for most Surname Projects. The 12 Marker test can be used to rule out matches where genealogy research is weak, or where there are budget constraints. Where the budget will support a 25 Marker test, and for common Haplotypes, the 25 Marker test is recommended. [For a discussion of common Haplotypes, see previous issues of the newsletter.] "Rule Out" means that a 12 Marker test is being used because the expected result is that they do not match, and a 12 Marker test is cost effective for this purpose. Where a 10/12 or better match is achieved, it is recommended to upgrade to 25 Markers. The chart above shows that if a 10/12 match is upgraded to 25 Markers, and the match still has 2 mutations, the result is 23/25, with a much shorter time frame to the common ancestor. "Many Surname Projects only consider 23/25 matches and better as related, due to the issue of the time frame of the common ancestor. As the time frame increases, there is little hope of finding documentation to support a relationship. Consider a 10/12 match, where the ancestor is within 3360 years at 95% confidence - an upgrade to 25 Markers may prevent spending time pursuing a match that a 25 Marker upgrade shows is a 21/25 match. "It is often disappointing when we don't match another person where it is expected. Even a no match can add value to our genealogy research. We may decide to review the research, or to question conclusions, or to do more research in a local, or focus research on a specific ancestor. A 11/12 or less match is often tempting to pursue, in the hope of being related. A small investment in a 25 Marker upgrade may save a lot of valuable time, and identify those relationships worth pursuing with genealogy research." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda & Tony MacCulloch" <ajmac@internet.co.nz> To: <STRONG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [STRONG] STRONG Robert - England > Hi Dave, > I am related to Pam, there are several males in NZ and my mothers brother > Trevor STRONG would probably be interested, I can't recall the details of > cost. > > Cheers, > > Brenda MacCulloch > ajmac@internet.co.nz > > > From: "David B. Strong" <dbstrong@sos.net> > > Reply-To: STRONG-L@rootsweb.com > > Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:27:02 -0800 > > To: STRONG-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [STRONG] STRONG Robert - England > > Resent-From: STRONG-L@rootsweb.com > > Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:30:56 -0700 > > > > Hi Pam... > > In all the New Zealand descendants, is there a male Strong who could join > > the DNA Study???? It might help provide some clues! > > Regards > > Dave Strong ... > > DNA Study Coordinator & webmaster: > > Book I: RESEARCHING STRONG(E) AND STRANG(E) > > IN GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/contents.htm > > Database and manuscript. See especially Chap. 13, > > entitled "Lineages"; and Chapt. 15, "DNA Study" > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/dnastudy.htm > > & > > Book II: THE DONEGAL STRONG PUZZLE: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/indxdrft.htm > > Research and study of Counties Donegal and Fermanagh Strongs and > > related families. > > ============================================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Witches Brew" <ppakes@ihug.co.nz> > > To: <STRONG-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:58 AM > > Subject: [STRONG] STRONG Robert - England > > > > > >> Hi all, hunting for my English side of the family but these brick walls > > are > >> a menace to climb without a few stepping stones. > >> > >> Robert STRONG born some where in England approx 1792 - 1849 - married > > some > >> where in England > >> Margaret FISHER born 1792 Norwich Norfolk (1851 census) - mysteriously > >> disappeared. > >> > >> They had seven children - five survived > >> > >> John William 1816 - 1824 > >> > >> Robert Arthur born 1817 Bermondsey -christened 1819 St Magdalene > > Rotherhithe > >> - married 1845 Sarah Ann Charlotte SELF born 1820 Soho London - shifted to > >> NZ 1856 and had nine children > >> > >> Rosina born 1819 Bermondsey - christened 1819 St Magdalene Rotherhithe - > >> mysteriously disappeared > >> > >> Charles born1823 Rotherhithe - married 1845 Mary Ann ROSS born 1819 > > Chatham > >> England - shifted to NZ 1856 - had one daughter Mary Ann. > >> > >> George born 1825 Rotherhithe - married 1848 in NZ Margaret McMullen born > >> 1827 Ireland - they had eight children, seven survived. > >> > >> Sarah born 1830 Rotherhithe - married 1853 George LEWIS - shifted to NZ > > 1865 > >> - they had eight children > >> > >> Susannah born 1833 Rotherithe - 1849 Rotherhithe > >> > >> In the census 1841 - 1851 there are other STRONG's in and around the same > >> area as my family lived (Silver Street. The ages seem to match that they > >> could be the brothers of Robert, all seem to be in the same trade as well > >> but I can't find a connection as who their parents could be. Of the > > families > >> that shifted to NZ between 1848-1865 I have about 98% of the descendants > >> > >> If any one has these particular names within their family tree - I would > >> love to hear from you. > >> > >> > >> Pam...............NZ > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~shamere/index.html > >> Strong, Fraser, McMullen, Betteridge, BDM, Fencibles, Shipping, WW1 > > Soldiers. > >> > >> > >> ==== STRONG Mailing List ==== > >> ======================================================== > >> Ship Captains and other Mariners named STRANG(E) or STRONG(E) > >> http://members.attcanada.ca/~vickerst/ships.html > >> ========================================================== > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ==== STRONG Mailing List ==== > > ======================================================== > > THE STRONG GENEALOGY NETWORK web site: > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/5744/ > > > > Register of Strong ancestors, by location. > > Links to websites with Strong data (GEDCOM to HTML) > > ========================================================== > > > > > > > ==== STRONG Mailing List ==== > ======================================================== > Address to subscribe or cancel subscription for MAIL-MODE: > <STRONG-L-request@rootsweb.com> > > Address to subscribe or cancel subscription for DIGEST-MODE: > <STRONG-D-request@rootsweb.com> > ========================================================== > To subscribe, send 1 word message: subscribe > > To cancel subscription, send 1 word: unsubscribe > ========================================================== > >