Dear Strongs: I invited Jim Hull, Hull Surname DNA Coordinator to explain the DNA process as the Hull Family Asso. is doing it. I'm Jim Hull, Hull Surname DNA Coordinator, and Patt Fulton forwarded your e-mail, I'll try to answer your questions. I have just begun to mail the letter below for Phase 3, and I thought maybe if you read it, hopefully it will answer your concerns. To answer your immediate question first, the DNA test for family genealogy does not have any genetic function, and so the test will NOT reveal any physical characteristics or innate tendencies. It will, however, reveal whether the test participants are related to each other. That's it! I believe most DNA Coordinators are probably administering their projects quite similar to the Hull Study. So, I believe it is safe to say that the same rules and procedures apply with very little variations. The letter that I'm sending out this week is below. If you have any questions or concerns please email anytime. Best regards, Jim Hull Hull Surname DNA Study James Reynolds Hull http://www.hullsurnamednastudy.com azjrh@msn.com Dear [Hull Descendant], It has been some time since I may have spoken with you personally, communicated in the written word, or mailed you the application materials. I am making one last attempt to encourage you to become a volunteer for the Hull DNA Study. What I have heard from a few since the beginning of the Hull Study have probably been excuses and rationalizations rather than reasons. I suspect that many would be more inclined or motivated to participate if they thought they might discover or validate something that would be helpful to them. In general, this Study is helping to clarify a few questions: 1. How many different common male ancestors are associated with the Hull surname? 2. How are your Hull ancestors related to other families with the Hull surname? 3. How are the different Hull family lines related? 4. Are all Hulls from an ancestral country related, or are there many different families with the name Hull? 5. Can a connection between the Hulls from Ireland and the Hulls from Scotland be made? 6. Which Hull researchers should be collaborating because they share a common ancestor? Many individuals have questions about the Study. Some of their questions may be what you have been thinking about, also. Q1. What is this DNA test all about? A. Currently, two types of DNA tests are available for genealogical testing: the Y-chromosome (Y-DNA) test and the mitochondrial (mtDNA) test. A direct female line can be traced by testing mitochondrial DNA. However, since we are presently interested in tracing surnames, which are passed from father to son, the testing of the Y-chromosome DNA is our interest. Q2. Will a DNA test tell me who my ancestors are? What will the test tell me? A. No, a DNA test will NOT tell you who your ancestors are. The test will tell if two or more participants share a common ancestor, and give you a probability of the number of generations to the Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA). Q3. Why analyze the Y chromosome? A. The Y chromosome is the only chromosome passed unchanged from father to son, and therefore indicates the paternal line of descent. All males in a patriarchal line have the same Y chromosome. The Y chromosome is not present in females. Q4. What is analyzed? A. Geneticists look at specific parts of the Y chromosome to obtain a "signature". Two or more males whose Y chromosome signatures match come from the same paternal line of descent. Those whose signatures do not match are from different lines. Q5. Exactly what does a Y chromosome match demonstrate? A. A Y chromosome match shows that two males have a common male ancestor. This ancestor could be their father, or it could be a male from a thousand years ago. Q6. Does a Y chromosome match prove this relationship? A. Although no evidence is ever absolutely certain, the confidence level for such a match is very high. Typically, there is less than one chance in a million or more that the demonstrated relationship is in error. Q7. What is the advantage of the 25-marker test over the 12-marker test? A. More markers reduce the number of generations to the MRCA. If you match someone on 12 out of 12 markers you almost certainly share a common ancestor. The question becomes "how far back do you have to go before you find that common ancestor?" If all 12 markers match there is a 50% probability that MRCA is 14 generations or less, a 90% probability that the MRCA is 48 generations or less, and a 95% probability that the MRCA is 62 generations or less. For 12 identical markers, 95% of the possible MRCA values fall between 1 and 77 generations. If all 25 markers match there is a 50% probability that the MRCA is 7 generations or less, a 90% probability that the MRCA is 20 generations or less, and a 95% probability that the MRCA is 30 generations or less. For 25 identical markers, 95% of the possible the MRCA values fall between 1 and 44 generations. Q8. Do Y chromosome analysis sometimes match, but not at every point? A. Yes. Over a period of many years, a small number of mutations can be counted on to appear, so there may be one or more points where the Y chromosome analysis does not match exactly. Q9. If no Y chromosome match is found, what does that show? A. It demonstrates to a very high degree of probability that the two males analyzed do not share a male ancestor. Although this is true for the two individuals tested, it may not be true for the family groups of the individuals who were tested, because there are a number of sources of "non-paternal events". Q10. My maiden name is HULL and I would love to have this information, but I am female and have no brothers and my father has passed on now. There are no living males with the surname HULL in my family, only male cousins named HULL, some quite distantly related. A. Your male cousins probably have the same Y-DNA as your father and his male ancestors with the surname HULL. Testing your cousins is the same as testing your late father if they are the natural children of your HULL ancestors. That is because the Y chromosome passes unchanged from father to son apart from random mutations. So if your father and your cousins have any known common ancestor, even back to your 4th great grandfather or beyond, the DNA sample should be the same as testing your father, give or take a mutation or two. Q11. My line split off from the HULL family two hundred years ago. My 4th-great grandmother was a HULL. I do research on my HULL ancestors but have no close HULL relatives. A. If you know or can find male surname descendents of your 4th great grandfather HULL, you can in effect "test" him by testing his descendents. That is because the Y-DNA is passed on without change from father to son. If you test a couple of your HULL cousins and they match, you can say with high confidence that their Y-DNA is very close to the Y-DNA of your 4th great grandfather. Then you can compare his sample to other samples in the study and possibly learn much new information about his line for your research. Q12. Why are you excluding women? We are the children of our HULL ancestors as much as the men. A. We cannot test females for the Y chromosome because they do not have one, only males. The technology does not exist to trace HULL surname ancestors through their female descendents, at least not yet. The reason requires going into a bit too much explanation of basic genetics, but essentially we get a blend of genes from our fathers and mothers for everything except the Y chromosome, which passes mostly unchanged from father to son. Most other genes combine, thus making every individual unique with a unique genetic signature. But that does not mean that daughters are not just as related to their fathers as sons. In fact everyone has genes from all their ancestors, half from each parent, a quarter from each grandparent, an eighth from each great grandparent and so forth back forever. Every gene in our DNA existed in some ancestor 10,000 years ago apart from a few mutations possibly. By using Y-DNA analysis women can learn much valuable information about their HULL ancestors, the same as male descendents. There are tests of mtDNA that trace female lineages, but they are not useful for single surname studies. Q13. There is only one living male person surname HULL in my family. What is the point of joining the study if I don't have two or three family members who are HULL surname males? A. There is potential value for you to join the study. The reason for testing two or three distantly related cousins is that this "validates" the family at least back to the known common ancestor. A single test could provide incorrect data for the families if there is an unknown adoption or a false paternity somewhere back in the past. If you alone take the test and it matches others in the study, you will have learned that your branch of the HULL family is related to theirs, with little doubt. If it does not match and you cannot find any cousin to test to validate the result, at least your sample will be available in the database until sometime in the future comes along and a match is secured. Q14. HULLS adopted me as a child. Is there any benefit to do a DNA test? A. That depends on whether you are trying to trace your "biological" family or your HULL family. If you were trying to trace your "biological" family you would have your own DNA sample tested. If you already know the surname of your "biological" family, it would probably be best to try to find a DNA project for that surname since your results would more likely match someone in that group than the HULL group. If you were interested in tracing your HULL family roots you would need a DNA sample from your HULL father or another male HULL family member. Q15. My male HULL cousins don't care a thing about family history. They won't pay for this. A. There is no rule that says the person ordering and paying for the test must be the person being tested. If your cousins will consent to doing this simple, painless test, you can complete the paper work and have them sign two forms. The sampler kit will be sent to them and the invoice sent to you. Some of the other family reconstruction projects have multiple researchers in the same family line that have split the cost of testing male cousins who have no interest in family genealogy. Q16. I already know my HULL family comes from somewhere in Ireland. What are we going to learn from doing this that is new? A. First of all, you may discover many HULL families that are your cousins that you did not know about before. They may have new information and family histories that will be useful to you, and you will know they are your relatives with little or no doubt. A couple of families named HULL side by side in the census could be brothers, or could be coincidence. But DNA is proof! Second, as the Study expands over time, you may discover the exact village where your ancestors came from in Ireland, possibly even church records that take you back hundreds of years. You may also discover that you share the same markers with HULLS who come from Scotland. There are people who believe that the HULLS who came from Ireland originated in Scotland but for many who have traced their lineages back to Ireland they are not able to make a Scotland connection. DNA testing might make this connection. Q17. All it takes is one break a long time ago and you won't be able to match up a whole line of HULLS. You will never be able to put all the HULLS together. A. That is very likely true, but the purpose of this is to help different HULL family's link up to further their genealogical research. Even if long ago a Mr. HULL adopted a boy whose natural father was Mr. Johnson, all his male descendents will still be with a common ancestor, which may prove useful. Also, if someday a Johnson has a test done, we may find that match as well! Q18. How is the DNA sample obtained? A. DNA can be obtained from any cell, but one of the easiest samples is obtained by swabbing the inside of the cheek with a specially designed brush, similar to a toothbrush. Q19. How do I participate? A. Basically each participant fills out an Application Form, Liability/Waiver Form and a Pedigree Chart, which will be sent to the Study Coordinator. After receiving the paperwork, the Study Coordinator will notify FTDNA [laboratory] to mail you a DNA sampler kit. The participant will take his own DNA sample and return it to the laboratory along with a check payable to the lab [unless other arrangements have been made]. After the results are received, the Study Coordinator will interpret the results and notify you of the results and with the interpretation. Q20. How will my DNA information be used? A. This poses a delicate balance between making the information available to others while protecting the privacy of the participants. DNA test results are of little use by themselves. Their value is how they compare to other test results and whom they match. Most other surname DNA projects display test results on a website as shown below [I didn't include the results, too lengthy, pmf] Q21. How will my DNA information be protected? A. Only the participant providing a DNA sample and the Family Coordinator will know what your results are unless you decide you would like to share that information (see next question). All samples and identifying information are given the unique number created by you. This ID number will be the only identifying information anyone else sees, so no one other than the Study Coordinator will know who participates in the study or which result is from which person. The portion of the DNA tested gives a distinctive "signature" for a lineage rather than for an individual, so there is no risk of this data being of any use to anyone for personal identity. Q22. I noticed my DNA markers match those of several other participants. Is there anyway I can contact them? A. If you choose not to identify yourself, you can contact the Family Coordinator who will forward your request on to a participant. Q23. Couldn't it be embarrassing if an individual's Y chromosome does not match when it should? A. Yes, and for this reason your results will never be revealed except by a code. Your name will not be published or released unless you give your permission to do so. Q24. My test results do not match any others, does that mean I'm not a HULL? A. There is always a possibility that you could get disappointing test results. Samples that vary by three or more markers from the main group may do so for a number of reasons. One possibility is that they represent distinct lines either older or younger than the currently observed most frequent line. Another is that there has been a "non-paternal event" at an unknown past time. There are several possible types of non-paternal events in addition to a pregnancy gained outside of a marriage. For example, a child may be adopted and given the HULL name; a man may take the HULL name when he marries a HULL daughter; a HULL man may marry a pregnant woman whose husband has died; a couple where the wife is the HULL may choose to give their children the HULL name for various reasons; clerical error in recording administrative data may assign a HULL name to the wrong person, and so on. It should be stressed that adoptions were quite common in every age (i.e., parents died by disease or war and a relative took in the children and raised them with their name; or young daughters had a child out of wedlock and the parents raised it as their own). Some may not want to see a result indicating a non-paternity event but we are all legal HULLS and a small sample size could be misleading. One may get a DNA sequence, which suggests a non-paternity event, but they could be of the original blood HULL line. Let me explain. Twenty people are tested and 19 are very similar but the last is clearly different. It could turn out that the 19 descend from the same person 300 years ago and this person was an adopted HULL while the other is of the original blood line going back 800 years.