(The following is from David B. Strong <dbstrong@sos.net> long-time and well-respected STRONG-L member.) Hi Russell... I am away from my desktop computer on one of my periodic sojourns .... consequently Marilynn is forwarding my mail to me. I don't have my laptop set up with a Strong-List subscription... so I am forwarding this message to you and requesting that you post it to the Strong List for me. I am quite interested in an overall LeStrange/Strange/Stronge/Strong/Strang DNA study. I think there are a great many questions which could be, if not answered, at least enlightened by such a study. It is quite interesting that several persons have posted messages to the Strong-List re such a study in the last day or two. Just in the last two weeks I have been corresponding with several individuals re the possibility of such a study. What follows is an excerpt from some of our messages. I would be very interested in the further thoughts of anyone who is interested. Regards Dave Strong PS: My apologies to the previous addressees of the excerpted messages... but I thought timeliness of the message subject called for immediate action, which necessitates a certain degree of disclosure you may not have anticipated. ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Roger Dellinger ; Gord Stronge Cc: PD & LE Strong ; Grahame Stronge Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 7:43 AM Subject: Re: South Carolina Strongs Hi Roger, and all... One of the projects I currently have in mind is to initiate a DNA Genetics study involving the entire spectrum of Lestrange/Strange/Strang/Stronge/Strong. I have been doing a bit of on-line research, and find that a good number of such one-name genealogical studies are underway. There has been a great deal of progress in the subject area in the last few years. A good place to start, if you are interested, is at Chris Pomery's DNA Portal: freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~allpoms/genetics.html If you look at it and follow the links, you will find that genetic testing is becoming relatively inexpensive... about $99 US per initial test, using Family Tree DNA Lab. See their website at: http://www.familytreedna.com/ and follow the links on Surname Projects. I looked at the other labs available and think this one is the best so far. They also offer a facility for converting the results of other labs and making the results compatible with their results... which may be useful in at least one other situation of which I am aware... a Strong who has apparently had some genetic testing done in his individual case. There are some limitations on what can be established using DNA studies. Obviously, we won't be able to establish the name and identity of any "missing links". And, for now, given the science involved, the tests should probably be limited to male representatives of each lineage, emphasizing sampling of the oldest available members of each lineage, and finding multiple testees in each lineage for verification purposes. However, we may be able to establish things such as: 1) Are the three branches of Strong/Stronges being studied by Roger, Gord, and Philip related genetically? 2) How many generations back from the samples tested did the three lineages have a common ancestor?.... and that could be important in putting bones on the hypotheses re how the lineages fit together. 3) Given testing in other lineages, to what degree are the other lineages related? Eg., are my Donegal/Fermanagh lineages related to your Down/Antrim lineages, or are they English in origin? The same questions can be asked about MANY different Strong etc., lineages known to us. One of the things which inhibits me a bit re the project is the apparent need for some technical ability to analyze the significance of the various DNA elements found by testing. Apparently, one gets a lab report... with some observations on comparisons with other samples in the test group, (and Family Tree DNA is keeping an overall file looking for matches outside the tested groups, as well). The problem then is how much additional technical knowledge is needed to evaluate the findings and to present them in a meaningful way... not to mention the details of assuring that participant agree to disclosure and hold harmless agreements, etc. Question... are you as a group willing to participate in such a study? Would you be willing to pay the cost of the testing? Actually ordering and returning the test kits from your respective locations? Do you have any insights or ideas as to how this project might best be managed? Note, I have some info compiled in electronic format... forms, etc, and an idea of what might be projected as overall goals of the study. I have in mind trying to get this thing going this winter. HELP! Regards Dave Strong {:-) ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: David B. Strong To: Grahame Stronge (Co's Antrim & Down) ; Roger Dellinger (re Co. Antrim) ; Gord Stronge (Vancouver, BC, re Co.Down) ; Philip D & Lyn E Strong (Aust., re Strong of Ulster) Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 6:58 AM Subject: Re: South Carolina Strongs Roger .... One thing I overlooked in my latest discussion (above), is that the DNA testing must be done on males OF THE LINEAGE. This would mean you would not be an eligible participant in the test group. HOWEVER, I would hope you could lend your support by finding a living South Carolina male Strong who could be included in the test group.... {:-) Dave ============================== ----- Original Message ----- From: David B. Strong To: Roger Dellinger (re Co. Antrim) ; Grahame Stronge (Co's Antrim & Down) ;Gord Stronge (Vancouver, BC, re Co.Down) ; Philip D & Lyn E Strong (Aust., re Strong of Ulster) Cc: Dave Strong (in transit) Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:28 AM Subject: Fw: DNA Testing Hi Philip, et al... ---------------------- Anyway... a question... have you read the Chris Pomery website and followed the links? About the budget issue. I read something on the Family Tree DNA site that related to the issue. You may recall there are about 20-24 different DNA elements(?) for which they test. Apparently they can establish most of what one might want to know by an initial test for about half of the elements... and only if you find a need to persue closer definition do you need to do the followup additional test... and that essentially involves the lab returning to the same sample and extending their test procedure. If you test for all 20+ elements, the cost is roughly double. The lab itself recommends doing the testing in two parts so as to cut the cost facing one who is on a limited budget. I have to admit that I usually think twice about spending ~$100US on anything... guess that's one reason I tend to think there may be a Scots background to my version of the Strong name! {:-) However, on a cost benefit analysis... I think this is a good way to spend money vs wasting time and money persuing "black holes"... and it may narrow the research focus considerably for many of us. I assume, by the way, that the cost of living is roughly about the same whereever one lives in the modern world so the cost in Australian dollars, while numerically higher than in the US, is roughly the same in real terms. About the issue of multiple samples.... this is one of my concerns as well. I suspect we may have difficulty getting participants for various reasons... lack of interest, cost, lack of communications, etc. However, it may be that if we can structure a study so that it can be fleshed out slowly over time, perhaps it will bear fruit, particularly if we seize opportunities to proselytize for the test as various individuals exhibit interest from time to time... eg., I see this as a long term project, and that we will have to do what we can do, and hope that time will help. The project is big and complicated, but I think we can do it if we set our minds to it! Regards Dave ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Strong To: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne ; Roger Dellinger ; Gord Stronge ; Grahame Stronge Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:40 PM Subject: DNA Testing Dear Dave et al, I have been following the recent correspondence with much interest. Nothing for quite a while... now we are back in business! Gord suggested that I had info on the Christopher STRONGs... no I had not pursued that at all.... must have been someone else. Dave has mentioned DNA testing: At 19/10/2002, Dave Strong wrote: One of the projects I currently have in mind is to initiate a DNA Genetics study involving the entire spectrum of Lestrange/Strange/Strang/Stronge/Strong......you will find that genetic testing is becoming relatively inexpensive... about $99 US per initial test, using Family Tree DNA Lab. In my other life as a biology teacher I would say that this is the way to go! However, to present the contra.... (a) Budgetary: The exchange rate between AUS and USA makes it a steep price when I try to support such an expenditure for an initial test only, to my wife who does not understand me... at least my interest in family history. (b) Multiple samples: I can tell you all the members of our STRONG family directly descended through the male line from Robert STRONG b. 1830, Holywood Co. Down. Note that this direct descendancy through the male line is needed to receive that copy of the Y chromosome being tested. My generation is the oldest alive (does this mean we are the next to go?)... and in my generation there are only 4 eligible.... none of whom are interested in family history apart from myself. (c) Interest: In the past when Dave first raised the DNA idea, I wrote to all of our correspondents: At 13/7/2002, Philip Strong wrote: Dave has already suggested the possibility of DNA testing of the "Y" chromosomes (of male descendants). The males of my lot have quite distinctive foreheads... please look at the photos of males on my website. Perhaps your lot (in your respective families) has similar appearance?.... bit of a long shot? I knew my grandfather well when he was old. When I recently went to New Zealand I saw a photo of my great grandfather for the first time... taken at the same age as I knew my grandfather... my first thought was "it's the same person!"... a remarkable likeness. The address is: "STRONGs of Ulster, Ireland" http://www.pnc.com.au/~plstrong/ Regrettably the only person who replied to this simple genealogical exercise was Gord. I don't know if lack of reply translates into lack of interest in the wider issue of relationships of the STRONGs of Ireland. By the way, I liked Dave's reference to "males of the lineage"... it has a good biblical ring about it. Best regards to all, Phil ========================================== October 19, 2002 2:04 AM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne" <dbsandmd@nhb.com> To: "Dave Skagit Strong" <dbstrong@sos.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:38 PM Subject: Fw: [STRONG] Re: STRONG DNA Study > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <PattFulton@aol.com> > To: <STRONG-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:27 PM > Subject: [STRONG] Re: STRONG DNA Study > > > > Dear Members, > > I'm, also, a member of the HULL Family Association. We have a DNA > project, > > headed by one of our members. We have a contract with the U. of AZ. > It's my > > understanding the price can be lowered if enough are interested. > Our > > Association has allowed monies for the project. > > Patt Fulton > > Austin, TX. > > e-mail: PattFulton@aol.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! 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