Ah, the debate begins. First of all, Barb, I respect John Threlfall's work; however, it this case there are two glaring omissions - Daniel, the "brother of Isaac & Shubael" who died unmarried after immigrating, and Nathaniel, Charles' brother. (I'm excusing the first Shubael, since he seems to have been more a legend than a reality). I show Charles as being born before 1626, based on his taking the freeman's oath in 1646, so I have no quarrel with the 1615/6 date proposed by Threlfall. I konw there are a lot of Isaac Stearns' descendants on this list, and I don't think any of them identifies his parents as Thomas and Dorothy. I believe Isaac's parents are identified as William and Emma (Ramsford) Stearns (Stearne), and that there is reasonable confirmation of this, although I have none of it. What about it, listmembers? What's your viewpoint on the Threlfall data (below) relating to Isaac & Charles? Jim ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Unidentified subject! Author: STEARNS-L@rootsweb.com at Internet Date: 6/21/97 4:01 PM Jim Blain posted the following on June 21, 1997... JB>A while ago, I promised to post some information I found in a book entitled JB>"A History of the Sandy Creek Baptist Association, from its Organization in JB>A.D. 1758 to A.D. 1858" by George W. Purefoy (1859). Before I begin with the JB>excerpts, let me identify, in an abbreviated fashion, the line that is JB>represented here: JB>1-- Shubael STEARNS ( -1630/1) (man of tradition but not record) Pardon me Jim, but in view of the fact that he was only a traditional and not a factual ancestor or father of Charles STEARNS (next listed)... JB> 2-- Charles STEARNS (1626-1680) JB> sp-Hannah ( -1651) JB> sp-Rebecca GIBSON (1635) ..perhaps we should take another look at Mr. John B. Threlfall's English research on the STEARNS family? I'll again list the family of Isaac STEARNS, uncle of Charles STEARNS here as found in parish records in Fordham, Essex England which are a good match for the American immigrants. Essex was the county just below Suffolk. - Father: Thomas STERNE Born: Abt 1550/1555, (probably near) Raydon, Suffolk, Eng Died: Bef 28 May 1599, (Will proved), Fordham, Essex, Eng Marr: Dorothy PLAMPIN Born: Abt 1555/1557, Stoke by Nayland, Suffolk, Eng (dau. of John) Died: Feb 1617/1618 (m. 2. Francis ELLIOT 7 Aug 1604) Children: 1. Thomas STERNE Born: Abt 1577, Fordham, Essex, Eng Died: Abt 27 Aug 1637, Fordham, Essex, Eng Bur: 27 Aug 1637, Fordham, Essex, Eng Spouse: Alice WALKER Marr: 23 Apr 1599, Fordham, Essex, Eng 2. William STERNE Born: Abt 1579, Fordham, Essex, Eng Died: Abt 18 Nov 1619, Fordham, Essex, Eng Bur: 18 Nov 1619, Fordham, Essex, Eng Spouse: Ann WALKER Marr: 14 Sep 1606, Fordham, Essex, Eng 3. Charles STERNE Born: Abt 1581, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Abt 7 Nov 1619, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Bur: 7 Nov 1619, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Spouse: Martha HASALL/LASALL (died: Abt 19 Feb 1626, Fordham, Essex, Eng.) Marr: 6 Jun 1609, Fordham, Essex, Eng. This couple had the following children: (a) Thomas, bp. 5 Aug 1610, Fordham, Essex, Eng (b) John, bp. 10 Dec 1612, Fordham, Essex, Eng (c) Charles, bp. 7 Jan 1615/16 (he went to Massachusetts with his uncle Isaac Stearns on the Winthrop Fleet or shortly after; mentioned as Isaac's "kinsman") (e) David, bp. 22 Mar 1617/18, Fordham, Essex, Eng 4. Richard STERNE Born: Abt 1583, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Aft 20 May 1599 5. Mary STERNE Born: Abt 1585, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Aft 20 May 1599 6. David STERNE Born: Abt 1587, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Aft 20 May 1599 7. Dorcas STERNE Born: Abt 31 Aug 1589, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Chr: 31 Aug 1589, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Aft 20 May 1599 8. Susan STERNE Born: Abt 1 Nov 1590, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Chr: 1 Nov 1590, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Aft 1618 9. Felix STERNE Born: Abt 26 Nov 1592, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Chr: 26 Nov 1592, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Aft 20 May 1599 10. Anis/Anne STERNE Born: Abt 8 Jan 1593, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Chr: 8 Jan 1593, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Abt 28 Mar 1628, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Bur: 28 Mar 1628, Fordham, Essex, Eng. 11. Isaac STEARNS Born: Abt 3 Oct 1595, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Chr: 3 Oct 1595, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: 19 Jun 1671, Watertown, Middlesex, MA Spouse: Mary BARKER Marr: 20 May 1622, Eng. 12. Dorothy STERNE Born: Abt 1597, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Chr: 14 Oct 1599, Fordham, Essex, Eng. Died: Aft 20 May 1599 The Will of Thomas STERNE was written 20 May 1599 and proved 30 Jun3 1599 (Wills at Chelmsford, 63 BW 35) Mr. Threlfall enjoys a respected reputation for his English research. I'm sure if Mr. Anderson had known about this before composing his last volume of The Great Migration Begins, the STEARNS coverage might have had a different look about it. And I'm sure that Mr. Threlfall stands behind his own findings. He would not spread this stuff around if he wasn't positive that he had found the immigrants. He is a cautious genealogist. He's been doing English research for more than 30 years. Barb Petty bpetty@erols.com