Can anyone help me with the location of this street address in the 1817 Census? This is my family in the Census, and Samuel was a "furnaceman" -- perhaps at the foundary? What was the foundary on Catherines Cross Foundry Street? Were there other foundaries? Where else might he have worked? Alternatively, What would an 11 year old girl, Isabella Heighway been doing as a vintner????? Thanks, in advance for any thoughts on my DAVIES/HEIGHWAY family. Marilyn DC 1871 -- Samuel and Mary living at #160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street, Moxley [1] In 1871, Samuel (31) and Mary (30) are living in Moxley, Darlaston, So. Staffs, and are listed as "Davis." With them are children George (6), William T. (4), Sarah A. (2) and Samuel J. (11 months). Also in this household are Isabella "Highway" (11), Ann Rushton (54) and Fred Dolman (54). Samuel and Mary were both listed as born in Madeley, Shropshire. All four children were born in Staffordshire: George, William, and Samuel in Moxeley, Darlaston; Sarah in Bilston. Samuel was working as a furnaceman, and Mary as a green grocer. George and William were in school. Isabella Heighway, listed as a relative, was Mary's younger sister, and was born in Bradley, Staffordshire. Her occupation was vintner, which was the occupation of Mary and Isabella's brother John James Heighway, who was a "victuller." Ann Rushton was a visitor, born Manchester, Staffordshire, and was widowed. No occupation was given. (Her relationship to the family, if any, is not known.) Household #161 only listed Fred Dolman, a lodger, and a widower. Fred was a coal miner, and was born in Bilston, Staffordshire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [1] 1871 Census - England, Staffordshire, Registration District, Civil Parish and Town of Darlaston, Borough of Wednesday, Ecclesiastical Parish of All Saints Moxley, ED-2, p. 29, also stamped p. 41. Ancestry: Class: RG10; Piece: 2954; Folio: 41; Page: 29; GSU roll: 836424.

Hi Marilyn I think the occupation column in the 1871 census for Isabella Highway says Visitor rather than Vintner. It has the same formation as the Relation description for Ann Rushton who also has Isabella's occupation dittoed. Catherine Cross appears to be now known as Wolverhampton Street, although the area around that street is still known as Catherine Cross. If you go to www.old-maps.co.uk and put the postcode WS10 8PX, it should take you to a modern map of the area. Then click on the 1886 map on the right hand side of the page and click Enhanced Zoom in the bottom left. That will show you Catherine Cross running NNW to SSE across the page - you'll see three iron works and a foundry in the immediate area and there were far more in neighbouring areas. Samuel could have worked at any of them. Ruth On 26 February 2012 04:04, Marilyn L. Arnold <marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net>wrote: > Can anyone help me with the location of this street address in the 1817 > Census? This is my family in the Census, and Samuel was a "furnaceman" -- > perhaps at the foundary? What was the foundary on Catherines Cross Foundry > Street? Were there other foundaries? Where else might he have worked? > > Alternatively, What would an 11 year old girl, Isabella Heighway been > doing as a vintner????? > > Thanks, in advance for any thoughts on my DAVIES/HEIGHWAY family. > > Marilyn > > DC > > 1871 -- Samuel and Mary living at #160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street, > Moxley [1] > > > > In 1871, Samuel (31) and Mary (30) are living in Moxley, Darlaston, So. > Staffs, and are listed as "Davis." With them are children George (6), > William T. (4), Sarah A. (2) and Samuel J. (11 months). Also in this > household are Isabella "Highway" (11), Ann Rushton (54) and Fred Dolman > (54). Samuel and Mary were both listed as born in Madeley, Shropshire. > All four children were born in Staffordshire: George, William, and Samuel > in Moxeley, Darlaston; Sarah in Bilston. > > > > Samuel was working as a furnaceman, and Mary as a green grocer. George > and William were in school. Isabella Heighway, listed as a relative, was > Mary's younger sister, and was born in Bradley, Staffordshire. Her > occupation was vintner, which was the occupation of Mary and Isabella's > brother John James Heighway, who was a "victuller." > > > > Ann Rushton was a visitor, born Manchester, Staffordshire, and was > widowed. No occupation was given. (Her relationship to the family, if > any, is not known.) Household #161 only listed Fred Dolman, a lodger, and > a widower. Fred was a coal miner, and was born in Bilston, Staffordshire. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [1] 1871 Census - England, Staffordshire, Registration > District, Civil Parish and Town of Darlaston, Borough of Wednesday, > Ecclesiastical Parish of All Saints Moxley, ED-2, p. 29, also stamped p. > 41. Ancestry: Class: RG10; Piece: 2954; Folio: 41; Page: 29; GSU roll: > 836424. > > > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED > MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a freereg Parish record of marriage 2 Jan 1815 Farewell between John Arnott and Ann Bartram there is a note with consent of parents. However I have used a family search baptism record dated 7 Apr 1786 Lichfield as his birth record so that would make him 29. Also the 1861 census indicates a birth year of 1786 for John and a birth year of 1792 for Ann making her 23 at marriage. I plan to look at the actual records someday but I don't have easy access. Does it make sense for a 29 year old and a 23 year old to have parent consent? Thanks John Bruin Albuquerque New Mexico Sent from my iPhone >> >> ****************************** >> ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not >> apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED >> MATERIALS. >> ------------------------------- >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > -----------------------------

Marilyn Attached is a modern  map of the area on which I've marked some details from the 1901 Ordnance Survey map. You'll see Foundry Street marked in red. It doesn't exist anymore but it's neighbour Park Street still does, although totally redeveloped. The area, like most of it's neighbouring towns, had the older properties demolished in the "slum clearances" of the 1950's and 60's and has been extensively developed and re-developed since then.  Most of the roads in purple are relatively new, as is anything labelled "Black Country Route." Catherine's Cross ran across the top of Foundry Street and it became Wolverhampton Street further on. At some stage it must have been renamed Wolverhampton Street throughout. I've marked the direction of local towns - Moxley is less than 1 mile away, Bilston 2 miles and in the other direction Wednesbury is about 1 mile away.  I've also added the major iron works but the area is full of such industry of all shapes and sizes. The 1901 map shows Foundry Street with typical small terraced housing - two rooms upstairs, two down; shared toilet in the yard: shared water or well also outside in the yard -  but there are a couple of larger plots which could be industrial. However, it may just be the name of the street rather than having a foundry in it. So your ancestor may have worked in the same street but equally at any of the places around there - a couple of miles walk to work and then back was not uncommon. This link http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/Darlaston/IronAndSteel.htm gives useful info on Iron and Steel in the area. The area was heavily industrialised and life was hard - even up to the 1930's.  The area remained very industrial up to the mid-1970's but declined rapidly after that. New maps of the area can be found at http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=397500&y=297500&z=120&sv=darlaston&st=3&tl=Map+of+Darlaston,+Walsall+[City/Town/Village]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf I got my 1901 (and earlier maps)  from http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ but you might find some images on line at other sites. It was not uncommon for families to use part of the house as a shop (greengrocer?) or to start a pub in their house and sell beer brewed in the yard in the "Brewhouse." You can see examples of pub types in the pictures mentioned above. The pub side, often run by the wife, providing much needed additional income. The proprietors would be descibed as "victualers" or "vintners" which can sound quite upmarket to us for what was really a front room pub. Sometimes these expand to become fully fledged pubs and Foundry Street did have one called The Lamp Tavern http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/Darlaston/Pubs.htm As for Isabella age 11 then as the 1870 Education Act had only just come in (requiring local bodies to provide eduction from 5 to 13)  she may well have left school already. She could be helping  out but I think it unlikely they'd describe her as a "vintner." Is it possible the description is "visitor" rather than "vintner"? Have a look at this link   http://www.aclickintime.co.uk/search.php  and select Darlaston for a selection of pictures. This site provides useful info on UK towns and villages http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Darlaston/index.html  Hope this helps and good luck with the research. Regards Mike Bryan ________________________________ From: Marilyn L. Arnold <marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net> To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, 26 February 2012, 4:04 Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Where is: 160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street -- 1871/ and an 11-year old vintner??? Can anyone help me with the location of this street address in the 1817 Census?  This is my family in the Census, and Samuel was a "furnaceman" -- perhaps at the foundary?  What was the foundary on Catherines Cross Foundry Street?  Were there other foundaries?  Where else might he have worked? Alternatively, What would an 11 year old girl, Isabella Heighway been doing as a vintner????? Thanks, in advance for any thoughts on my DAVIES/HEIGHWAY family. Marilyn DC 1871 --  Samuel and Mary living at #160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street, Moxley [1] In 1871, Samuel (31) and Mary (30) are living in Moxley, Darlaston, So. Staffs, and are listed as "Davis."  With them are children George (6), William T. (4), Sarah A. (2) and Samuel J. (11 months).  Also in this household are Isabella "Highway" (11), Ann Rushton (54) and Fred Dolman (54).  Samuel and Mary were both listed as born in Madeley, Shropshire.  All four children were born in Staffordshire:  George, William, and Samuel in Moxeley, Darlaston; Sarah in Bilston.  Samuel was working as a furnaceman, and Mary as a green grocer.  George and William were in school.  Isabella Heighway, listed as a relative, was Mary's younger sister, and was born in Bradley, Staffordshire.  Her occupation was vintner, which was the occupation of Mary and Isabella's brother John James Heighway, who was a "victuller." Ann Rushton was a visitor, born Manchester, Staffordshire, and was widowed.  No occupation was given.  (Her relationship to the family, if any, is not known.)  Household #161 only listed Fred Dolman, a lodger, and a widower.  Fred was a coal miner, and was born in Bilston, Staffordshire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [1]              1871 Census - England, Staffordshire, Registration District, Civil Parish and Town of Darlaston, Borough of Wednesday, Ecclesiastical Parish of All Saints Moxley, ED-2, p. 29, also stamped p. 41.  Ancestry:  Class: RG10; Piece: 2954; Folio: 41; Page: 29; GSU roll: 836424.     ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A belated thank you to the list -- esp. Ruth Selman, Michael Wright, and Michael Bryan -- for answering my question about the location of this street in Moxeley. (I apologize for the delay. Developed an eye infection and had difficulty w/vision until the Rx could get called in and start to do it's thing. What a relief!) Very helpful! Thanks Ruth for suggesting that 11 year old Isobella may have been a visitor (this was Easter, I understand), and that did make a little more sense than for her to be a vintner! Special thanks to Michael Bryan for going out of his way to mark up a map for me, and for the very detailed suggestions (below). (But I didn't get the attachment, unfortunately -- the list doesn't allow attachments, but you can send it to me at marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net in the cc above. And, the links are great, (Michael Bryan) -- I still have to fully explore them. I know my DAVIES lived a difficult life as there are family stories of one of the children working in a mill at the age of 8, standing on a stool all day. And another being in cold, wet coal mines. Times had to be tough, and when I hear your description of the outside, shared toilet and the shared well. Wonder just how far apart those could have been. Yikes. One died of small pox at just 7. Thanks again to all at this list for helping me understand the times and places of my Staffs/Shrops ancestors. Marilyn Arnold DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL BRYAN" <probasis@btinternet.com> To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Where is: 160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street -- 1871/ and an 11-year old vintner??? Marilyn Attached is a modern map of the area on which I've marked some details from the 1901 Ordnance Survey map. You'll see Foundry Street marked in red. It doesn't exist anymore but it's neighbour Park Street still does, although totally redeveloped. The area, like most of it's neighbouring towns, had the older properties demolished in the "slum clearances" of the 1950's and 60's and has been extensively developed and re-developed since then. Most of the roads in purple are relatively new, as is anything labelled "Black Country Route." Catherine's Cross ran across the top of Foundry Street and it became Wolverhampton Street further on. At some stage it must have been renamed Wolverhampton Street throughout. I've marked the direction of local towns - Moxley is less than 1 mile away, Bilston 2 miles and in the other direction Wednesbury is about 1 mile away. I've also added the major iron works but the area is full of such industry of all shapes and sizes. The 1901 map shows Foundry Street with typical small terraced housing - two rooms upstairs, two down; shared toilet in the yard: shared water or well also outside in the yard - but there are a couple of larger plots which could be industrial. However, it may just be the name of the street rather than having a foundry in it. So your ancestor may have worked in the same street but equally at any of the places around there - a couple of miles walk to work and then back was not uncommon. This link http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/Darlaston/IronAndSteel.htm gives useful info on Iron and Steel in the area. The area was heavily industrialised and life was hard - even up to the 1930's. The area remained very industrial up to the mid-1970's but declined rapidly after that. New maps of the area can be found at http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=397500&y=297500&z=120&sv=darlaston&st=3&tl=Map+of+Darlaston,+Walsall+[City/Town/Village]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf I got my 1901 (and earlier maps) from http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ but you might find some images on line at other sites. It was not uncommon for families to use part of the house as a shop (greengrocer?) or to start a pub in their house and sell beer brewed in the yard in the "Brewhouse." You can see examples of pub types in the pictures mentioned above. The pub side, often run by the wife, providing much needed additional income. The proprietors would be descibed as "victualers" or "vintners" which can sound quite upmarket to us for what was really a front room pub. Sometimes these expand to become fully fledged pubs and Foundry Street did have one called The Lamp Tavern http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/Darlaston/Pubs.htm As for Isabella age 11 then as the 1870 Education Act had only just come in (requiring local bodies to provide eduction from 5 to 13) she may well have left school already. She could be helping out but I think it unlikely they'd describe her as a "vintner." Is it possible the description is "visitor" rather than "vintner"? Have a look at this link http://www.aclickintime.co.uk/search.php and select Darlaston for a selection of pictures. This site provides useful info on UK towns and villages http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Darlaston/index.html Hope this helps and good luck with the research. Regards Mike Bryan ________________________________ From: Marilyn L. Arnold <marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net> To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, 26 February 2012, 4:04 Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Where is: 160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street -- 1871/ and an 11-year old vintner??? Can anyone help me with the location of this street address in the 1817 Census? This is my family in the Census, and Samuel was a "furnaceman" -- perhaps at the foundary? What was the foundary on Catherines Cross Foundry Street? Were there other foundaries? Where else might he have worked? Alternatively, What would an 11 year old girl, Isabella Heighway been doing as a vintner????? Thanks, in advance for any thoughts on my DAVIES/HEIGHWAY family. Marilyn DC 1871 -- Samuel and Mary living at #160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street, Moxley [1] In 1871, Samuel (31) and Mary (30) are living in Moxley, Darlaston, So. Staffs, and are listed as "Davis." With them are children George (6), William T. (4), Sarah A. (2) and Samuel J. (11 months). Also in this household are Isabella "Highway" (11), Ann Rushton (54) and Fred Dolman (54). Samuel and Mary were both listed as born in Madeley, Shropshire. All four children were born in Staffordshire: George, William, and Samuel in Moxeley, Darlaston; Sarah in Bilston. Samuel was working as a furnaceman, and Mary as a green grocer. George and William were in school. Isabella Heighway, listed as a relative, was Mary's younger sister, and was born in Bradley, Staffordshire. Her occupation was vintner, which was the occupation of Mary and Isabella's brother John James Heighway, who was a "victuller." Ann Rushton was a visitor, born Manchester, Staffordshire, and was widowed. No occupation was given. (Her relationship to the family, if any, is not known.) Household #161 only listed Fred Dolman, a lodger, and a widower. Fred was a coal miner, and was born in Bilston, Staffordshire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [1] 1871 Census - England, Staffordshire, Registration District, Civil Parish and Town of Darlaston, Borough of Wednesday, Ecclesiastical Parish of All Saints Moxley, ED-2, p. 29, also stamped p. 41. Ancestry: Class: RG10; Piece: 2954; Folio: 41; Page: 29; GSU roll: 836424. ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think the things you describe Marilyn are about normal for the times - my grandmother also worked in a mill from a very young age and she was born 1886; my grandfather, her husband, had to stand at meals with all the 9 or so other children - Mum and Dad sat - they could only afford two chairs in the entire house. Grandma slept with her siblings - six on one double bed - three top, three tail. Five girls one boy. By the time my grandparents were growing, they did have a legal entitlement and requirement for education - perhaps three or five years. G grandma, the generation earlier, could not read nor write and she died 1942. Grandma said he mother did not have the opportunity to ever learn and that she (grandma - and presumably her siblings, starting 1881 births) had, like me, gone to school. 1901 census, Grandma and her younger sister were both mill workers. Only one who was not was Olga, aged 10 or maybe JUST 11. (Grandma was third youngest of six.) Shared toilet - in the back yard of several houses - but we are most likely talking terrace houses, possibly front and backs too - small in dimensions and number of rooms - say one loo for every six or so households, outside wash=house too, rostered which days you could use it. Bath - either het the copper up or pay and go to the public bath house if there was one, Sat nights most likely. A newish house my g grandfather lived in with about five opr more siblings and ?Mum and Dad had three rooms - I have been in it! One main room downstairs with a tiny kitchen and lobby utility room off the back of it, through which you went these days to the back yard. Stairs ina cupboard - and though I did not go upstairs, maybe then two rooms up. Whether they have now made two small bedrooms and a bathroom up there, who knows? But more likely, one larger - still small to my Australian modern eyes - and a bathroom. No outside buildings in the small back yard these days. And they had bought a few more backyards from the neighbours over the 150 or so years, so it is now bigger and lovely. 1861 census (or 1871) I think it was listed as back to back but the old maps and modern show the "footprint" has not changed - so, two families would have lived in these two rooms in effect - no access to the "back" either - the whole row of the houses, about 40 or more in a long line. Talk about crowded! But then, they did not have much it seems. Or any expectations of things being better, either, possibly. They would have walked to work - there was and still is! a mill at the end of the road, perhaps 100-200 yds away. And many more within walking distance back then, but gone now. I visited there in 2010. Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marilyn L. Arnold Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012 12:34 AM To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com; MICHAEL BRYAN Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Where is: 160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street -- 1871/ and an 11-year old vintner??? A belated thank you to the list -- esp. Ruth Selman, Michael Wright, and Michael Bryan -- for answering my question about the location of this street in Moxeley. (I apologize for the delay. Developed an eye infection and had difficulty w/vision until the Rx could get called in and start to do it's thing. What a relief!) Very helpful! Thanks Ruth for suggesting that 11 year old Isobella may have been a visitor (this was Easter, I understand), and that did make a little more sense than for her to be a vintner! Special thanks to Michael Bryan for going out of his way to mark up a map for me, and for the very detailed suggestions (below). (But I didn't get the attachment, unfortunately -- the list doesn't allow attachments, but you can send it to me at marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net in the cc above. And, the links are great, (Michael Bryan) -- I still have to fully explore them. I know my DAVIES lived a difficult life as there are family stories of one of the children working in a mill at the age of 8, standing on a stool all day. And another being in cold, wet coal mines. Times had to be tough, and when I hear your description of the outside, shared toilet and the shared well. Wonder just how far apart those could have been. Yikes. One died of small pox at just 7. Thanks again to all at this list for helping me understand the times and places of my Staffs/Shrops ancestors. Marilyn Arnold DC __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6935 (20120303) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com