Many thanks for the ideas. Ruth I used one of your links and shall send for Samuel Bagnall’s will copy for 1745. If the Downing’s were loyal servants he may have made provision. They do not appear to have moved far. Now if I could just find out if they had children. I keep coming back to this pair. All this to fast forward to find Michael Downing. Born approximately 1756. I know where he died, where he was married, where his children were born and that he was big on family naming but no birth. As he is one of the tree trunks I am stuck. I even sent for his death certificate in case he had another name. Anyway, thankyou all again but should you see him. Helen