You might find this site useful   http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/index.html   It has a database of over 140,000 names   Derek

At 10:05 04/03/2012, J Roberts wrote: >A colliery is a coal mine. Thanks John, an excellent account, clear and concise. For anyone interested and within travelling distance of Wakefield, Yorkshire the Mining Museum at Caphouse Pit is well worth a visit http://www.ncm.org.uk. I believe Big Pit in South Wales is good too: www.museumwales.ac.uk/en/bigpit/ The Black Country Museum in Dudley also has a colliery http://www.bclm.co.uk/ - but the website says it's closed at present. I guess there are similar experiences in other mining areas in the world but I don't know them. But all of these are pale imitations of what it was really like to work there - modern H&S sees to that. Imagine being an 8 year old kid, in charge of opening and closing a door in the mine (for ventilation purposes) - in the pitch black too - just so that Dad could earn a few more pence. That really happened before the Shaftesbury reforms. Andy.

Dawn has answered most of these But to add a bit 1: Silence. Well yes, but even more unnerving were the small creaking noises in a mine where you knew that your party of 6 were the only people down there. The face was where the mine was being worked, the idea being just to extract coal, but some rock also had to be removed to get at the coal. Faces were unused when they became to small to be economical, or when faults meant that you got to a place where there was no more coal. It had moved up or down. 2: See http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1578726 for an example of a 3 deck one. When you look for images of coal mines you see the pithead wheels that cables went over to raise and lower the cages, usually parallel pairs. The tubs (like small railway wagons) where pushed in full of coal at the bottom and pulled out above ground to be emptied. 3: The mines were mostly not lit, but see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_lamp Other brands, such as the Stephenson (as in George) were available. 4. Search for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firedamp for the nastiest "bad air". There where others. As for never knowing how GG GF got his scar, the accident may have been mentioned in the papers, if you know when and where to search. Cheers Steve On 03/03/2012 23:43, Marilyn L. Arnold wrote: > Thank you ALL for this very interesting discussion and experiences with coal > minig! This has raised some questions and terminology with which I (and > perhaps others) am unfamiliar. Can someone help? > > 1. Brian said .... "we went ...on a school trip, all the way to the coal > faces, at a unused face the guide had everybody turn off there helmet > lights. I can still remember the total darkness." WOW. ... gave me > goosebumps. I'm sure the silence was stunning as well. > > Question1: What are "coal faces" and "unused coal faces"? The edge of > where coal becomes a different type of rock? > > 2. John. Roberts -- VERY interesting email about coal mining. THANKS! > > Question2: What is a "colliery?" You worked a cage? What is a "cage?" and > you refer to decks as if things were stacked. Coal to be hauled out? > > 3. Q3: How were the mines lit in the 1800s? Candles? Lanterns? > > 4. Q4: How often was there "bad air" as described in the story shared by > Derek of the personal story of the poor 11-year old girl? > > And thanks to Derek, Dawn as well for their very graphic descriptions of > life ... rather sobering. And, interesting about the ponies. Life > certainly wasn't easy, was it? > > Now this makes me wonder if my GG GF somehow worked in the coal mines w/the > ponies and that's how he got the scar on his lip. Interesting ..... > hmmmm..... Well, since he was b. 1865 and died before I was born, I guess > I'll never really know! (Although 4 of his grandchildren are still living). > > Thanks again, > Marilyn > DC > > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi: The Coal Mining History Resource Centre website at: http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/index.html contains a lot of useful and interesting information. It also contains an indexed database of people killed in coal mining accidents, often with details of what happened - sobering reading. Best wishes Paul

I must have been having a bit of a brain fade when I wrote that there was only coal, because of course there was limestone and iron ore, as we were taught in history at school. But sometimes the memory forgets bits like that. Cheers Steve On 03/03/2012 16:57, brian wrote: >> I don't think that there was much need to differentiate between coal and >> other miners in that area as there wasn't much (if any) other mining >> unlike in, for example County Durham, where there was also lead mining. > They were also mining limestone and iron ore, which with the local coal were > the main materials to start iron production in the Iron Bridge area. > Coal mining went back to the Roman times, due to the seams at or just below > ground level. > > Brian > > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A colliery is a coal mine. A coal face is the place where the mining of coal actually took place. There were two types of coal face. One was called "longwall mining" this was formed by driving two roadways varying between 100 to 200 yards between them, at a suitable distance from the main ventilation roads a narrow heading, some 8 feet wide and the height varying with the thickness of the coal seam. when this operation was completed, installation of roof supports, coal cutters and chain conveyers took place. The coal cutter consisted of a huge machine very like a massive chain saw would cut into the coal, the coal was then drilled using huge hand drills some 4 to 6 feet deep. These holes were drilled to a set pattern and primed with explosives with a shot wire attached, clay was then inserted. and in due course the shotfirer coupled his shotfiring battery to the wires and all men would have to retreat to a safe distance and the shots were exploded bringing down the coal. The coal was then loaded onto the chain conveyor by men working with shovels. as the coal was removed new roof supports would have to be put in place. In the area left from working the coal packs would be built by hand. The packs varied in width according to the conditions of the particular seam of coal. the space in between the walls was filled by hand shovelling the "dirt" as it was called into the space thus formed.the shale roof over the coal being brought down by hand or by shotfiring according to the method of working. These were formed by building narrow walls Prior to the mechanization of mines the under cutting of the coal was done by means of a hand held pick and then Then brought down by means of the same pick and loaded by hand held shovels. A very much older method of working was by "pillar and stall" this consisted of narrow "headings" being driven by hand, in a kind of chess board pattern leaving large blocks of coal behind to support the roof. How were the Mines lit? In the early days before the introduction of the Davy Safety lamp by candles which was highly dangerous because of the risk of explosion of the resulting methane gas which was produced from working the coal. In addition to this the resulting fine coal dust would add considerably to the resultant explosion. Later, after the introduction of electricity into mining, strategic places were lighted by specially made safety lights. The miners would have a Davy Safety lamp issued to them to light their place of work, one lamp to each man. Thus working condition were very dark, Later, Electric Cap Lamps were introduced consisting of a heavy battery worn ion the trouser belt and with a cable up to the lamp itself which was worn on the front of the Safety Helmet, or "hard hat". How often was there bad air, simply put always. This bad air was dispelled by a carefully designed system of ventilation. A test for then presence of gas was always conducted prior to the shotfiring and the Overman for the district would have to make tests for gas a set intervals during the day. Additionally. the areas left between the packs formed after removal of the coal were sampled weekly by means of inflating a "balloon" and the resultant balloon tested in the laboratory for the amount of methane and other gases such as carbon monoxide. The majority of what I have written above applied after the introduction of the 1911 Coal Mines Act and its consequent Safety Regulations. Hope I have managed to convey some idea of the "b--dy" awful conditions under modern mining. Before this era conditions were much, much worse. Children as young as 8 years of age being employed underground to open and close ventilation doors. I have seen conditions when even wearing a cap lamp, one could hold ones hand directly in front of ones face and not be able to see it. If you so wish I will reserve further explanation for another time. Hope this helps. John Roberts In The Staffordshire Potteries Where The Mugs Come From -------------------------------------------------- From: "Marilyn L. Arnold" <marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 11:43 PM To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] COAL MINING QUESTIONS > Thank you ALL for this very interesting discussion and experiences with > coal > minig! This has raised some questions and terminology with which I (and > perhaps others) am unfamiliar. Can someone help? > > 1. Brian said .... "we went ...on a school trip, all the way to the coal > faces, at a unused face the guide had everybody turn off there helmet > lights. I can still remember the total darkness." WOW. ... gave me > goosebumps. I'm sure the silence was stunning as well. > > Question1: What are "coal faces" and "unused coal faces"? The edge of > where coal becomes a different type of rock? > > 2. John. Roberts -- VERY interesting email about coal mining. THANKS! > > Question2: What is a "colliery?" You worked a cage? What is a "cage?" > and > you refer to decks as if things were stacked. Coal to be hauled out? > > 3. Q3: How were the mines lit in the 1800s? Candles? Lanterns? > > 4. Q4: How often was there "bad air" as described in the story shared > by > Derek of the personal story of the poor 11-year old girl? > > And thanks to Derek, Dawn as well for their very graphic descriptions of > life ... rather sobering. And, interesting about the ponies. Life > certainly wasn't easy, was it? > > Now this makes me wonder if my GG GF somehow worked in the coal mines > w/the > ponies and that's how he got the scar on his lip. Interesting ..... > hmmmm..... Well, since he was b. 1865 and died before I was born, I guess > I'll never really know! (Although 4 of his grandchildren are still > living). > > Thanks again, > Marilyn > DC > > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED > MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4848 - Release Date: 03/03/12 >

Yes, that is exactly what I understood - and possibly she had been doing it since about age 8 I imagine. Hard times! But normal, then. No wonder the life expectancy was a lot less - apart from accidents which would kill many, they'd be worn out. No aged pension, sickness benefits etc. Think all that started happening round WWI - give or take a few years depending on which country/state you lived in. Even here, aged pension for men over 65 introduced about 1915 - life expectancy for a man was about 58! And most got the pension only for a few months before dying at less than 66. I turn 65 in a few weeks - aged pension for women was 60 graduated to 65 - 64 for me - and retired earlier due to work superannuation pension no topped up additionally by aged pension - life is GOOD! I own my own house - which is good as it is really only since I was adult women could get mortgages etc without a man involved.. and I am divorced now. G Gran, the one who had all six of her children in one bed, was a single mother thanks to her husband Henry marrying bigamously six times after her!! - she took in washing and supported them all that way. North of England - no money for shoes and clothes - they wore what they were given whether it fitted or not. Barefoot in ice and snow was the alternative. Grandma had shocking feet which she said was due to that, and she drummed it into her children and even me (she died when I was ten) that children needed well fitting shoes, expensive yes, but Mum should go without a meal or two if necessary to provide them. I have passed it on to my children but so far, and probably too late now, no offspring from any of them! No need these days to go without meals to provide them though. Dawn __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6935 (20120303) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

For those who don't know - gang is an old form (and possibly in dialect) of go... we are talking imperial things where a cwt - hundredweight is 112 lbs, perhaps 50-55kg - A fathom is 6ft - about 1.8metres. Creels were used for basket - fisherfolk used the term still. Possibly still do. I remember learning a song at school - as I was ganging down the road.. we had it explained it meant - as I was going down the road.. the measurements we all learned by heart, rote, whatever. Not so these days. Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Derek Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012 7:34 AM To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] 1881 -- The Iron Works, Moxley/Wednesfield This link will give you a good idea of what life was like in the coal mines in 1842..............   http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/literature/royalcommissionreports/   if you don't have time to read the rport this will give you an idea of what it was like ........... taken from the report ..................  Janet Cumming (No.1), 11 years bears coals.I gang with the women at five and come up at five at night. I work all night on Fridays, and come away at twelve in the day. I carry the large bits of coal from the wall face to the pit bottom, and the small pieces called chows in a creel. The weight is usually a hundredweight. I do not know how many pounds there are in a hundredweight but it is some weight to carry. It takes three journeys to fill a tub of 4 cwt. The distance varies as the work is not always on the same wall, sometimes 150 fathoms, whiles 250 fathoms. The roof is very low and I have to bend my back and legs and the water comes frequently up to the calves of my legs. I have no liking for the work, father makes me like it. I never got hurt, but often am obliged    Derekto scramble out of the pit when bad air was in. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6935 (20120303) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

I find all of this appalling Stephen Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Roberts" <roberts627@btinternet.com> To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:44 AM Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Pit Ponies > Having worked all my life in Coal Mining in Staffordshire can confirm > that > there were stables underground. At the colliery I worked at the ponies > were > always well kept and the miners would often take special treats for the > ponies as they always thought very highly of these animals. > They were used to haul both full and empty tubs around the Pit Bottom > area. > The only time they ever came to the surface was for the traditional two > week > Miners Holiday. At the colliery where I worked the cage was rather small. > It > had three decks but only the top deck was sufficiently high to enable one > pony at a time to enter the cage. This deck was also very small in width > and > depth being designed for six men standing two abreast and three deep. When > the ponies were loaded into the cage they had to open a hatch at the roof > of > the top deck and the pony would be coaxed into this very limited space, > made > to sit down with its head through the open hatch. A very tricky > operation. > Because the lighting underground was negligible, they had to wear > "blinkers" > to protect their eyes whilst on the surface. It was a real treat to see > them > making the most of very limited freedom and to watch them gambol about was > a > great sight to experience. After the two week break the procedure would > have > to be gone through again to get the ponies back into the mine. Despite all > this, they were always well cared for. The colliery blacksmith was > required > to go underground to shoe the ponies when necessary. Inspections were made > at regular intervals by a Veterinary Surgeon and also the Mines > Inspectorate. > Hope this is of interest. > John Roberts > In the Staffordshire Potteries Where the Mugs Come From > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "brian" <brian@kddpowercentre.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:41 PM > To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] 1881 -- The Iron Works, Moxley/Wednesfield > >> They had stables underground for the pit ponies, but they came up >> periodically, may have been annually ( from memory, but were going back >> to >> the 50's ) for a break. They had farms for them, and retirement, they >> were >> looked after at least in years, they were still going in the 50's / 60's. >> >> In the 1950's - 1980's there were around 100 pits, still working, >> Essington, >> Cannock, Hednesford, Rugeley, Cannock Chase, Walsall Wood, Brownhills >> area. >> >> We went down Hednesford number 5 pit on a school trip, all the way to the >> coal faces, at a unused face the guide had everybody turn off there >> helmet >> lights, I can still remember the total darkness. >> >> Brian >> >> ****************************** >> ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not >> apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of >> ARCHIVED >> MATERIALS. >> ------------------------------- >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4848 - Release Date: 03/03/12 >> > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED > MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes pit ponies lived underground most if not all their lives - used for pulling carts of coal about on tramlines laid in the mines. Grim conditions! I recommend you googling such things - those times are not so long ago really and many people have no idea, assuming the forebears have always lived as we do now. It is a recent thing, this absolute LUXURY we have these days - I mean luxury compared to the norm just 100 or 150 years back, even 60 years ago, really. The house I grew up in had the toilet outside, admittedly off the back veranda so access was all covered. But it was a house by itself, not shared, not attached to the neighbours, had its own small land around it - big for these days though! Mum grew up in the same house (she and Dad bought it from her parents when they retired) - it was built about 1920 I THINK. Dawn __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6935 (20120303) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

I think the things you describe Marilyn are about normal for the times - my grandmother also worked in a mill from a very young age and she was born 1886; my grandfather, her husband, had to stand at meals with all the 9 or so other children - Mum and Dad sat - they could only afford two chairs in the entire house. Grandma slept with her siblings - six on one double bed - three top, three tail. Five girls one boy. By the time my grandparents were growing, they did have a legal entitlement and requirement for education - perhaps three or five years. G grandma, the generation earlier, could not read nor write and she died 1942. Grandma said he mother did not have the opportunity to ever learn and that she (grandma - and presumably her siblings, starting 1881 births) had, like me, gone to school. 1901 census, Grandma and her younger sister were both mill workers. Only one who was not was Olga, aged 10 or maybe JUST 11. (Grandma was third youngest of six.) Shared toilet - in the back yard of several houses - but we are most likely talking terrace houses, possibly front and backs too - small in dimensions and number of rooms - say one loo for every six or so households, outside wash=house too, rostered which days you could use it. Bath - either het the copper up or pay and go to the public bath house if there was one, Sat nights most likely. A newish house my g grandfather lived in with about five opr more siblings and ?Mum and Dad had three rooms - I have been in it! One main room downstairs with a tiny kitchen and lobby utility room off the back of it, through which you went these days to the back yard. Stairs ina cupboard - and though I did not go upstairs, maybe then two rooms up. Whether they have now made two small bedrooms and a bathroom up there, who knows? But more likely, one larger - still small to my Australian modern eyes - and a bathroom. No outside buildings in the small back yard these days. And they had bought a few more backyards from the neighbours over the 150 or so years, so it is now bigger and lovely. 1861 census (or 1871) I think it was listed as back to back but the old maps and modern show the "footprint" has not changed - so, two families would have lived in these two rooms in effect - no access to the "back" either - the whole row of the houses, about 40 or more in a long line. Talk about crowded! But then, they did not have much it seems. Or any expectations of things being better, either, possibly. They would have walked to work - there was and still is! a mill at the end of the road, perhaps 100-200 yds away. And many more within walking distance back then, but gone now. I visited there in 2010. Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marilyn L. Arnold Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012 12:34 AM To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com; MICHAEL BRYAN Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Where is: 160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street -- 1871/ and an 11-year old vintner??? A belated thank you to the list -- esp. Ruth Selman, Michael Wright, and Michael Bryan -- for answering my question about the location of this street in Moxeley. (I apologize for the delay. Developed an eye infection and had difficulty w/vision until the Rx could get called in and start to do it's thing. What a relief!) Very helpful! Thanks Ruth for suggesting that 11 year old Isobella may have been a visitor (this was Easter, I understand), and that did make a little more sense than for her to be a vintner! Special thanks to Michael Bryan for going out of his way to mark up a map for me, and for the very detailed suggestions (below). (But I didn't get the attachment, unfortunately -- the list doesn't allow attachments, but you can send it to me at marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net in the cc above. And, the links are great, (Michael Bryan) -- I still have to fully explore them. I know my DAVIES lived a difficult life as there are family stories of one of the children working in a mill at the age of 8, standing on a stool all day. And another being in cold, wet coal mines. Times had to be tough, and when I hear your description of the outside, shared toilet and the shared well. Wonder just how far apart those could have been. Yikes. One died of small pox at just 7. Thanks again to all at this list for helping me understand the times and places of my Staffs/Shrops ancestors. Marilyn Arnold DC __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6935 (20120303) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Robyn, Wow, what a great story, all of it. The horrible frustration, and finally the exaltant feeling of satisfaction. Michael Wright 801-773-7680 (H) 801-390-0960 (C) rahmuss@hotmail.com > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 13:50:33 -0800 > From: shawforsure@gmail.com > To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Finding Descendants > > Michael, my rellie came on a ship to Australia from Switzerland, name of > ship was Daniel Rop....or it LOOKED like Rop with a p with a long > tail.....later, YEARS later, after putting him in the Daniel Rop, I found > out that double s was written as (we would say) like a p. SO, he came in > the Daniel ROSS...aaaggghhh. Plenty of traps for the unwary. > My rellies who were Cahill on leaving Ireland, ended up as Kyle here. What > happened was that, I am sure, the gangplank ticker-offer said to my > Bridget, most of them seemed to be called Bridget or Ellen or > Catherine...aagghh again, 'And what is YOUR name my pretty'.....in a > SCOTTISH accent....she with an IRISH accent replied, 'It is Bridget Cahill, > karl, carl, cahl' whatever it sounded like. The paper she carried was wet > and smudged, he just shoved her up the plank. > > With the roaring of the sea and her soft voice and noise in the background, > he just wrote up what he thought she said, who cared, there were 100 others > behind her to get on board, he didn't want to be held up with several 'What > did you says' or 'How do you spell thats'. So he put down Kyle. For years > I had the rest of the family but not Bridget.....ended up going through ALL > the births in Qld with the name of the mother as Bridget...and saying to > myself in an Irish, Scottish, Australian accent, Cahill, Cahill....ended up > with Carl....none of them...never thought of the name with a K did I? > Finally, finally, I remembered the other lot who were Cavanagh, and when > here Kavanagh, the penny dropped and I looked under Karl...found a > Kyle...matched them up...yes, yes, the Eureka moment...THAT is her....sighs > of relief.....we ALL have those Eureka moments also....if we are lucky and > not so dumb as I was many years ago...I am a tad more savvy now, spellings > mean nothing to me...my maiden name was Freney....I even got > Fernary....aagghh. Rob > > On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Michael Wright <rahmuss@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Yep, it was kind of fun looking at some actual documents. They have MOSS > > spelled "MO" and then some crazy looking "S" which looks a lot like a > > cursive "F", and then they have a normal "S" for the second one. Weird. > > Also a lot of people have said that MOSS and MORSE were mixed up, or > > swapped around, so that's something for me to consider as well. I just > > don't want to because it makes things harder. :D > > > > Michael Wright > > 801-773-7680 (H) > > 801-390-0960 (C) > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:05:37 -0800 > > > From: shawforsure@gmail.com > > > To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Finding Descendants > > > > > > Michael, to further confuse you....George Moss could be Goss or Woss, my > > > relation was Henry Nash, he ended up as Wash. Writing with a pen doing > > > upward strokes is not easy and a W, M, and N look alike. Wackford became > > > Mackford also. Wait a while. Maybe your lot came to Oz and, as they say, > > > must have swum. They could be in jail, visiting rellies in Scotland or in > > > hospital. Never say die, just go and do something else for a while...you > > > get brain overload. Robyn > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Marilyn L. Arnold < > > > marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > > Michael: > > > > > > > > Yes ... despite the "quick success stories" people see at Who do You > > Think > > > > You Are or "The Locator" -- genealogy and finding people is NOT always > > > > quick > > > > or easy. Patience is required. It took me about 10 years to sort out > > the > > > > various CLARK families in one particular area of rural Vermont, and it > > was > > > > one SINGLE clue that led me to my ancestor -- a very brief obit in a > > > > neighboring town's newspaper indicating that he was born in 1775, CT > > > > (unlike > > > > the rest of the Clarks of that town who came from MA). BINGO. > > > > > > > > And figuring out my DAVIES in Shrops and Staffs, who are all creatively > > > > named Samuel, William, George, Thomas, or Harry (or Mary, Ann or > > Eleanor), > > > > has been quite the challenge, but I'm in touch with descendants who > > were > > > > siblings in the 1860-70s (who remained in England), for which I am > > > > grateful! > > > > (And, siblings from the 1840s in the US one generation earlier). Even > > > > found > > > > one distant cousin on this line where the common ancestors were born > > in the > > > > 1790s! Working collaboratively is exciting and fun for all -- you just > > > > never know who may have the clues, the family Bible, the letters, old > > > > pictures, and even the recipe for the "Humbugs (from the 1840s)." (At > > > > least > > > > one of my cousins is on this list -- hi Al!) (We found each other > > about 12 > > > > years ago online.) > > > > > > > > Don't give up hope. Follow the siblings, because you never know where > > that > > > > clue may be! Be sure you have a "strong foundation" before you go > > building > > > > the roof on that house, however .... (from some of the correspondence, > > I'm > > > > not sure you have that ...?) > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Marilyn > > > > DC (sunny, windows open, mild!) > > > > > > > > DAVIES, HEIGHWAY > > > > Married: CADDICK, HAMPTON, COATES, PURCELL, BEET, BUTLER, JONES > > > > (1840-1940s); pre 1840 in Shrops. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Robyn Shaw" <shawforsure@gmail.com> > > > > To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:17 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Finding Descendants > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michael, we ALL know that feeling of trawling through many records > > > > > trying to find someone, and we end up finding that their birth was > > not > > > > > registered or their mum died and the neighbour took them in.....in > > one > > > > mad > > > > > moment, trying to find my Spiers in Scotland, I printed all of them > > out > > > > > and > > > > > went through them one by one...pages and pages it took...days and > > days it > > > > > took....eventually found them and not where I was told either. Do not > > > > > give > > > > > up. many more records are coming on line and sometimes you just have > > to > > > > > wait a bit for a new census or parish records to be available. All > > the > > > > > best. Robyn Shaw, Qld, Australia > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 5:46 AM, Michael Wright <rahmuss@hotmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Thanks for giving me some hope. Last night was fairly depressing. I > > > > >> spent about three hours trying to look for one of my ancestors' > > husband > > > > >> with no luck. George MOSS and Sarah had a daughter named Elizabeth, > > and > > > > >> we > > > > >> know nothing of who she married, or if she died. > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > ****************************** > > > > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > > > > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of > > ARCHIVED > > > > MATERIALS. > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Robyn Freney-Shaw > > > Manager/Co-Ordinator > > > Spiritus Soup Kitchen > > > Toowoomba. > > > ****************************** > > > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED > > MATERIALS. > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ****************************** > > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED > > MATERIALS. > > ------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > Robyn Freney-Shaw > Manager/Co-Ordinator > Spiritus Soup Kitchen > Toowoomba. > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Having worked all my life in Coal Mining in Staffordshire can confirm that there were stables underground. At the colliery I worked at the ponies were always well kept and the miners would often take special treats for the ponies as they always thought very highly of these animals. They were used to haul both full and empty tubs around the Pit Bottom area. The only time they ever came to the surface was for the traditional two week Miners Holiday. At the colliery where I worked the cage was rather small. It had three decks but only the top deck was sufficiently high to enable one pony at a time to enter the cage. This deck was also very small in width and depth being designed for six men standing two abreast and three deep. When the ponies were loaded into the cage they had to open a hatch at the roof of the top deck and the pony would be coaxed into this very limited space, made to sit down with its head through the open hatch. A very tricky operation. Because the lighting underground was negligible, they had to wear "blinkers" to protect their eyes whilst on the surface. It was a real treat to see them making the most of very limited freedom and to watch them gambol about was a great sight to experience. After the two week break the procedure would have to be gone through again to get the ponies back into the mine. Despite all this, they were always well cared for. The colliery blacksmith was required to go underground to shoe the ponies when necessary. Inspections were made at regular intervals by a Veterinary Surgeon and also the Mines Inspectorate. Hope this is of interest. John Roberts In the Staffordshire Potteries Where the Mugs Come From -------------------------------------------------- From: "brian" <brian@kddpowercentre.com> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:41 PM To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] 1881 -- The Iron Works, Moxley/Wednesfield > They had stables underground for the pit ponies, but they came up > periodically, may have been annually ( from memory, but were going back to > the 50's ) for a break. They had farms for them, and retirement, they were > looked after at least in years, they were still going in the 50's / 60's. > > In the 1950's - 1980's there were around 100 pits, still working, > Essington, > Cannock, Hednesford, Rugeley, Cannock Chase, Walsall Wood, Brownhills > area. > > We went down Hednesford number 5 pit on a school trip, all the way to the > coal faces, at a unused face the guide had everybody turn off there helmet > lights, I can still remember the total darkness. > > Brian > > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED > MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4848 - Release Date: 03/03/12 >

They had stables underground for the pit ponies, but they came up periodically, may have been annually ( from memory, but were going back to the 50's ) for a break. They had farms for them, and retirement, they were looked after at least in years, they were still going in the 50's / 60's. In the 1950's - 1980's there were around 100 pits, still working, Essington, Cannock, Hednesford, Rugeley, Cannock Chase, Walsall Wood, Brownhills area. We went down Hednesford number 5 pit on a school trip, all the way to the coal faces, at a unused face the guide had everybody turn off there helmet lights, I can still remember the total darkness. Brian

Thanks for that Dawn ................and where it said "Janet Cumming (No.1), 11 years bears coals.I gang with the women " .......... the 11 years refers to her age and not the time period bearing coal !!!   Derek ________________________________ From: Dawn Webb <dawnwebb@optusnet.com.au> To: 'Derek' <derekn@btinternet.com>; staffordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 3 March 2012, 20:49 Subject: RE: [STAFFORDSHIRE] 1881 -- The Iron Works, Moxley/Wednesfield For those who don't know - gang is an old form (and possibly in dialect) of go...  we are talking imperial things where a cwt - hundredweight is 112 lbs, perhaps 50-55kg - A fathom is 6ft - about 1.8metres.  Creels were used for basket - fisherfolk used the term still.  Possibly still do. I remember learning a song at school - as I was ganging down the road..  we had it explained it meant - as I was going down the road..  the measurements we all learned by heart, rote, whatever. Not so these days. Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Derek Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012 7:34 AM To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] 1881 -- The Iron Works, Moxley/Wednesfield This link will give you a good idea of what life was like in the coal mines in 1842..............   http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/literature/royalcommissionreports/   if you don't have time to read the rport this will give you an idea of what it was like ........... taken from the report ..................  Janet Cumming (No.1), 11 years bears coals.I gang with the women at five and come up at five at night. I work all night on Fridays, and come away at twelve in the day. I carry the large bits of coal from the wall face to the pit bottom, and the small pieces called chows in a creel. The weight is usually a hundredweight. I do not know how many pounds there are in a hundredweight but it is some weight to carry. It takes three journeys to fill a tub of 4 cwt. The distance varies as the work is not always on the same wall, sometimes 150 fathoms, whiles 250 fathoms. The roof is very low and I have to bend my back and legs and the water comes frequently up to the calves of my legs. I have no liking for the work, father makes me like it. I never got hurt, but often am obliged    Derekto scramble out of the pit when bad air was in. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6935 (20120303) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

This link will give you a good idea of what life was like in the coal mines in 1842..............   http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/literature/royalcommissionreports/   if you don't have time to read the rport this will give you an idea of what it was like ........... taken from the report ..................  Janet Cumming (No.1), 11 years bears coals.I gang with the women at five and come up at five at night. I work all night on Fridays, and come away at twelve in the day. I carry the large bits of coal from the wall face to the pit bottom, and the small pieces called chows in a creel. The weight is usually a hundredweight. I do not know how many pounds there are in a hundredweight but it is some weight to carry. It takes three journeys to fill a tub of 4 cwt. The distance varies as the work is not always on the same wall, sometimes 150 fathoms, whiles 250 fathoms. The roof is very low and I have to bend my back and legs and the water comes frequently up to the calves of my legs. I have no liking for the work, father makes me like it. I never got hurt, but often am obliged    Derekto scramble out of the pit when bad air was in. ________________________________ From: Marilyn L. Arnold <marilyn.arnold1@verizon.net> To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 3 March 2012, 14:52 Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] 1881 -- The Iron Works, Moxley/Wednesfield Really .... I had no idea!  Wow.  That's fascinating.  I do recall stories being passed down about working in the dark, damp coal mines with water dripping down.  It sounded wretched.  I'm just not sure who exactly were the coal miners, since they didn't appear as such in the census records, but think my GG GF was at one time, as a young man.  No wonder he wanted to come to "America" and become a minister -- a far easier life! You are saying 17th and 18th centuries -- ie 1600s, 1700s.  So coal was discovered there as early as the 1600s? Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lin Lamberg" <linlamberg@btinternet.com> To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] 1881 -- The Iron Works, Moxley/Wednesfield > Marilyn, one interesting fact I forgot to mention regarding the Black > Country was back in the 17th and 18th Centuries, there were more people > working under ground than there were above ground.  Makes you think! > > Linda. > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not > apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED > MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A lot of my family were coal miners, and a trend I have noticed is that they mostly seemed to migrate from the Black Country up towards the Potteries, Derbyshire and South Yorkshire from the 1870s or so. So maybe the coal seams were beginning to run out by then or more easily worked ones being discovered elsewhere. One branch became publicans instead... Liz http://lizplummer.com/genealogy

Dawn: Thank you Dawn! for this very interesting perspective you provided (below) on life in this time period. My GGG uncle was said to have worked in a mill by the age of 8 and was so small that he had to stand all day on a stool. His father was killed in an iron mill accident when the child was 6, and his mother was left with 5 young children under 12 to raise alone. She was described in the 1851 Census as a pauper. I know that one of the children at 13 was a servant, not living at home, and another I think was in an orphan asylum (school), but not sure, given the common DAVIES name. My grandmother's cousin stated that the census did not specifically have to state her condition as "pauper" so that indicated (to her) Ann's very desperate condition. I do know that Ann, b. ~ 1815 could not read and write. One daughter was taken to the US by her husband's younger brother and wife and raise as their own, so poor Ann was forced to say goodby to her "Nellie" age 8, not knowing if she would ever see her again, but also knowing that she'd have a better life with them. How tragic. One by one the Uncle George brought over her other children to Pittsburgh, with only her son Samuel (my GGG GF) remaining in Moxley. Thank you for describing the conditions of the loo and the wash house. I guess I just didn't think about it. We so take things for granted these days! Could you describe what you mean by "cooper up?" I can't imagine Ann and family would have had money for a public bath house, but perhaps son Samuel & family (b. 1838) may have (siblings b. 1865-1880 or so). Questions: * How expensive would a trip to a bath house have been, relative to pay for an iron worker might you imagine? * When might running water/indoor facilities common in the Moxley, Wednesbury, Dudley, Bilston area? (Since my GG GF, b. 1865 Moxley; d. 1947 New Hampshire, US used to collect water daily from the well even as an elderly man, I suspect that was the norm for when he was brought up.) Thanks for the description of the house; I suspect my rellies lived in similar, modest homes, as my grandparents visited cousins in the 1960s and described conditions as modest, relative to theirs. I know a couple had shops in the front of their homes. One sold candy ("humbugs!") (1870s) and another bakery good (1960s). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Webb" <dawnwebb@optusnet.com.au> To: <staffordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] Where is: 160 Catherines Cross Foundry Street -- 1871/ and an 11-year old vintner??? >I think the things you describe Marilyn are about normal for the times - my > grandmother also worked in a mill from a very young age and she was born > 1886; my grandfather, her husband, had to stand at meals with all the 9 or > so other children - Mum and Dad sat - they could only afford two chairs in > the entire house. Grandma slept with her siblings - six on one double > bed - > three top, three tail. Five girls one boy. By the time my grandparents > were growing, they did have a legal entitlement and requirement for > education - perhaps three or five years. G grandma, the generation > earlier, > could not read nor write and she died 1942. Grandma said he mother did > not > have the opportunity to ever learn and that she (grandma - and presumably > her siblings, starting 1881 births) had, like me, gone to school. 1901 > census, Grandma and her younger sister were both mill workers. Only one > who > was not was Olga, aged 10 or maybe JUST 11. (Grandma was third youngest > of > six.) > > Shared toilet - in the back yard of several houses - but we are most > likely > talking terrace houses, possibly front and backs too - small in dimensions > and number of rooms - say one loo for every six or so households, outside > wash=house too, rostered which days you could use it. Bath - either het > the copper up or pay and go to the public bath house if there was one, Sat > nights most likely. > > A newish house my g grandfather lived in with about five opr more siblings > and ?Mum and Dad had three rooms - I have been in it! One main room > downstairs with a tiny kitchen and lobby utility room off the back of it, > through which you went these days to the back yard. Stairs ina > cupboard - > and though I did not go upstairs, maybe then two rooms up. Whether they > have > now made two small bedrooms and a bathroom up there, who knows? But more > likely, one larger - still small to my Australian modern eyes - and a > bathroom. No outside buildings in the small back yard these days. And > they > had bought a few more backyards from the neighbours over the 150 or so > years, so it is now bigger and lovely. 1861 census (or 1871) I think it > was > listed as back to back but the old maps and modern show the "footprint" > has > not changed - so, two families would have lived in these two rooms in > effect > - no access to the "back" either - the whole row of the houses, about 40 > or > more in a long line. Talk about crowded! But then, they did not have much > it seems. Or any expectations of things being better, either, possibly. > They would have walked to work - there was and still is! a mill at the end > of the road, perhaps 100-200 yds away. And many more within walking > distance back then, but gone now. I visited there in 2010. > > Dawn (Melbourne Australia)

Thank you ALL for this very interesting discussion and experiences with coal minig! This has raised some questions and terminology with which I (and perhaps others) am unfamiliar. Can someone help? 1. Brian said .... "we went ...on a school trip, all the way to the coal faces, at a unused face the guide had everybody turn off there helmet lights. I can still remember the total darkness." WOW. ... gave me goosebumps. I'm sure the silence was stunning as well. Question1: What are "coal faces" and "unused coal faces"? The edge of where coal becomes a different type of rock? 2. John. Roberts -- VERY interesting email about coal mining. THANKS! Question2: What is a "colliery?" You worked a cage? What is a "cage?" and you refer to decks as if things were stacked. Coal to be hauled out? 3. Q3: How were the mines lit in the 1800s? Candles? Lanterns? 4. Q4: How often was there "bad air" as described in the story shared by Derek of the personal story of the poor 11-year old girl? And thanks to Derek, Dawn as well for their very graphic descriptions of life ... rather sobering. And, interesting about the ponies. Life certainly wasn't easy, was it? Now this makes me wonder if my GG GF somehow worked in the coal mines w/the ponies and that's how he got the scar on his lip. Interesting ..... hmmmm..... Well, since he was b. 1865 and died before I was born, I guess I'll never really know! (Although 4 of his grandchildren are still living). Thanks again, Marilyn DC

There is evidence of limited mining of coal back to Roman times in England. Its use was quite restricted for many centuries; most houses did not have proper fireplaces with chimneys, and coal did not give good results when used for smelting metal. Coal was used on a moderate scale by lime burners and smiths at an early date. Later, domestic use increased rapidly. Mining was limited to relatively shallow working in most places because of the difficulty of removing water from the workings until the development of effective steam engines. The industrial revolution brought a partnership between steam and coal - engines allowed extraction of much more coal from deeper, more extensive workings and steam power used more coal as it was applied to more tasks. Coal was applied to manufacture of glass and pottery, and eventually the problems of using coal for metal extraction were solved. Naturally the scale of the industry as well as the technical details of the workings altered hugely. My own family worked as coal miners at least as far back as 1793 and yes, I am sure working conditions were pretty grim when compared against modern standards. However, late in the 18th century changes in agriculture were displacing vast numbers from their rural lives. Mining was relatively well paid at this time and provided many families with a livelihood for generations. Ian On 03/03/2012 15:07, Lin Lamberg wrote: > Hi Marilyn, someone on here will know more about the History of Coal Mining than I do, but I believe Coal was being Mined in the BC as far back as the 1500's. But it was the Industrial Revolution that made the Black Country the work shop of the world from the 1700's onwards, which has sadly declined in the last 50 years. The men working under ground, I was referring to the 1700's and 1800's. Best Wishes from Linda. > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4848 - Release Date: 03/03/12 > >