Hi Everyone, I found this link when I was looking for something else. It seems a good cause so I am posting it to the Group as some of you might be ointerested. www.savestjohnschurch.zoomshare.com/ Regards, Irene in cold wet/sunny Melbourne, Aus.

Julie, I think buying the birth certificate is the right decision. They cost 9.25pds direct from GRO online. Just a word or caution. Double check everything. It looks like a tricky family 1891 image is very faint. What Kate thought was Elizabeth, I think is Mary. Going back to 1881 the children look Mary c1870, Elizabeth c1873, George c1875 and Hannah (Ann in 1891) c1877. If those ages are correct Elizabeth in only 12 in 1885 when Julia is allegedly born. So any illegitimacy is more likely Mary's. But as I said, try and locate all the family members in as many census as you can. I do some professional research and I can see so many questions that are going to take hours of work. Where are George and Elizabeth in 1891. Who and when did Mary and Elizabeth marry? When did William die? Unfortunately in 1901, what looks like Lucy is a patient in a hospital. So if William has died and Lucy is in hospital, it's unlikely you'll find the children together. But by 1901 they'd all be over 25 anyway. Peter

Many thanks to Linda, Kate, Jane, Christine and Peter for your input, it really is appreciated! I had a real "doh!" moment when reading your replies ... it had never even crossed my mind about Julia's illegitimacy! Food for thought, and another area to search. I will order the birth certificate, and hopefully that will set me on the right path. Thank you to you all once again! :)

Thanks for the link on St John's Irene, the cause has been well publicized in the local paper, has been an ongoing project for a few years now, cheers from Linda.

Julie, I'd follow Jane & Kate's suggestions. Buy the certificate and also find the family members in earlier and later census records. I have a feeling that Elizabeth could be the mother and that Julia was raised by her grandparents. But without the certificate, you won't know. It could be another family altogether. If Kate is right with 1891 entry, there's lots of possible deaths for William Cartwright from 1891 -1904. Finding his wife Lucy as a widow in 1901 or 1911 will narrow the date and death ages might provide extra clues. And if Elizabeth is the mother you'll want to trace her as well. Peter

Hello After many years 'resting' this particular branch on my tree, I have decided come back to it and see if I am able to finally jump over my brickwall! I was wondering if anyone has any ideas at all as to what other searches I may be able to conduct to break down this brickwall? I am researching a Julia Cartwright, who was born 1884 in Standeford, Staffordshire. I have found her on the 1901 census as a servant (age given as 17). She gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire She is described as a 'General Servant Domestic' for a Frederick Coldclough, Brewer. I am positive this is 'my' Julia, as as few years later Julia named her first born daughter the exact same name as her employers wife - Constance M. The address is Lawn Lane Coven / or Coven Lawn. Julia (age given as 20) married John Reynolds on the 21st December, 1904 at Coven Church, Coven, Stafforshire I then found Julia again on the 1911 census, living at Road Farm Cottage, Stretton, Stafford with her husband John and her first 3 children. Once again,she gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire. >From her marriage certificate (which I have), her father's name is given as William Cartwright, labourer, although he is listed as deceased. My problem is, I am unable to locate a Julia Cartwright (who fits) on the 1891 census with a father named William .... I have even conducted a search for all of England with only her name and birth year entered, with no other details and still have no luck. I also tried looking at that period with just a father named William Cartwright. Still nothing that appears to match. Her mother might possibly be Mary, as there is a Mary Cartwright listed as a witness on the marriage certificate, although I do realise this could be a sister. Julia passed away on 30 September 1971 in Coven, Staffordshire, so she more or less stayed in the same area all her life. Any suggestions, ideas etc as where to go from here would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Julie (Newcastle, Australia)

Hi Julie   On Ancestry and fmp I have found a Cartwright family living in Saredon a couple of miles from Brewood in 1891 with father William born Weston, Staffs 1845 and mother Lucy born Blymhill Common.  There is also a sister Elizabeth age 27 and a daughter transcribed as Fancy? age 6 which could possibly be your Julia. The handwriting is quite difficult to read but the ref isClass: RG12; Piece: 2222; Folio: 127; Page: 10;   Kate ________________________________ From: Christine Benson <christinebenson313@btinternet.com> To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2012, 16:12 Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] My Cartwright brickwall Hi Julie, Your tree does not appear to be clear on which year she was born but there only appears to be one likely birth and one "outside chance". Why don't you get the birth certificate. It is possible that the father William is a convenient fiction as this can be the reason for hard to find entries. Christine -----Original Message----- From: julie_reynolds@kooee.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:56 PM To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] My Cartwright brickwall Hello After many years 'resting' this particular branch on my tree, I have decided come back to it and see if I am able to finally jump over my brickwall! I was wondering if anyone has any ideas at all as to what other searches I may be able to conduct to break down this brickwall? I am researching a Julia Cartwright, who was born  1884 in Standeford, Staffordshire. I have found her on the 1901 census as a servant (age given as 17). She gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire She is described as a 'General Servant Domestic' for a Frederick Coldclough, Brewer. I am positive this is 'my' Julia, as as few years later Julia named her first born daughter the exact same name as her employers wife - Constance M.  The address is Lawn Lane Coven / or Coven Lawn. Julia (age given as 20) married John Reynolds on the 21st December, 1904 at Coven Church, Coven, Stafforshire I then found Julia again on the 1911 census, living at Road Farm Cottage, Stretton, Stafford with her husband John and her first 3 children. Once again,she gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire. >From her marriage certificate (which I have), her father's name is given as >William Cartwright, labourer, although he is listed as deceased. My problem is, I am unable to locate a Julia Cartwright (who fits) on the 1891 census with a father named William .... I have even conducted a search for all of England with only her name and birth year entered, with no other details and still have no luck. I also tried looking at that period with just a father named William Cartwright. Still nothing that appears to match. Her mother might possibly be Mary, as there is a Mary Cartwright listed as a witness on the marriage certificate, although I do realise this could be a sister. Julia passed away on 30 September 1971 in Coven, Staffordshire, so she more or less stayed in the same area all her life. Any suggestions, ideas etc as where to go from here would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Julie (Newcastle, Australia) ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Julia was probably illegitimate, have you found her as a child in 1891? Linda.

Hi Julie, Your tree does not appear to be clear on which year she was born but there only appears to be one likely birth and one "outside chance". Why don't you get the birth certificate. It is possible that the father William is a convenient fiction as this can be the reason for hard to find entries. Christine -----Original Message----- From: julie_reynolds@kooee.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:56 PM To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] My Cartwright brickwall Hello After many years 'resting' this particular branch on my tree, I have decided come back to it and see if I am able to finally jump over my brickwall! I was wondering if anyone has any ideas at all as to what other searches I may be able to conduct to break down this brickwall? I am researching a Julia Cartwright, who was born 1884 in Standeford, Staffordshire. I have found her on the 1901 census as a servant (age given as 17). She gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire She is described as a 'General Servant Domestic' for a Frederick Coldclough, Brewer. I am positive this is 'my' Julia, as as few years later Julia named her first born daughter the exact same name as her employers wife - Constance M. The address is Lawn Lane Coven / or Coven Lawn. Julia (age given as 20) married John Reynolds on the 21st December, 1904 at Coven Church, Coven, Stafforshire I then found Julia again on the 1911 census, living at Road Farm Cottage, Stretton, Stafford with her husband John and her first 3 children. Once again,she gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire. >From her marriage certificate (which I have), her father's name is given as >William Cartwright, labourer, although he is listed as deceased. My problem is, I am unable to locate a Julia Cartwright (who fits) on the 1891 census with a father named William .... I have even conducted a search for all of England with only her name and birth year entered, with no other details and still have no luck. I also tried looking at that period with just a father named William Cartwright. Still nothing that appears to match. Her mother might possibly be Mary, as there is a Mary Cartwright listed as a witness on the marriage certificate, although I do realise this could be a sister. Julia passed away on 30 September 1971 in Coven, Staffordshire, so she more or less stayed in the same area all her life. Any suggestions, ideas etc as where to go from here would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Julie (Newcastle, Australia) ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This may be her. You could send for her birth certificate. Staffordshire Birth Indexes for the year `884 Surname: Cartwright Forename: Julia Sub-District: Brewood Registers At: Newcastle-Under-Lyme Reference: BRE/15/029 http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi Hope this helps, Jane -----Original Message----- From: julie_reynolds@kooee.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 10:56 AM To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] My Cartwright brickwall Hello After many years 'resting' this particular branch on my tree, I have decided come back to it and see if I am able to finally jump over my brickwall! I was wondering if anyone has any ideas at all as to what other searches I may be able to conduct to break down this brickwall? I am researching a Julia Cartwright, who was born 1884 in Standeford, Staffordshire. I have found her on the 1901 census as a servant (age given as 17). She gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire She is described as a 'General Servant Domestic' for a Frederick Coldclough, Brewer. I am positive this is 'my' Julia, as as few years later Julia named her first born daughter the exact same name as her employers wife - Constance M. The address is Lawn Lane Coven / or Coven Lawn. Julia (age given as 20) married John Reynolds on the 21st December, 1904 at Coven Church, Coven, Stafforshire I then found Julia again on the 1911 census, living at Road Farm Cottage, Stretton, Stafford with her husband John and her first 3 children. Once again,she gives her birth place as Standeford, Staffordshire. >From her marriage certificate (which I have), her father's name is given as >William Cartwright, labourer, although he is listed as deceased. My problem is, I am unable to locate a Julia Cartwright (who fits) on the 1891 census with a father named William .... I have even conducted a search for all of England with only her name and birth year entered, with no other details and still have no luck. I also tried looking at that period with just a father named William Cartwright. Still nothing that appears to match. Her mother might possibly be Mary, as there is a Mary Cartwright listed as a witness on the marriage certificate, although I do realise this could be a sister. Julia passed away on 30 September 1971 in Coven, Staffordshire, so she more or less stayed in the same area all her life. Any suggestions, ideas etc as where to go from here would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Julie (Newcastle, Australia) ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All Had this from Ian Hartas who is the node master of the UKBMD websites and it describes what enhancements he has now made to UKBMD And since this is a mailing list which likes to give as much info to as many as it can I thought I would mail it to you all I would like to apologize in advance to the moderators of these lists if I've overstepped the mark.. Regards Bill Harrison Webmaster Staffs BMD and WestMidlands BMD <snip> Message from Ian Hartas, UKBMD. UKBMD has been updated to add new options on its menu. The very first version of the UKBMD web site simply provided a map of the UK and linked the counties to their respective Local BMD web sites if they had one. This first version was soon replaced by one similar in style to the current version, with links to all sorts of other web sites with on-line data for a wide range of categories. However, we often still see many references to UKBMD which only mention Civil Registration. Selecting a county from the drop-down list in the menu will show a wide range of links to sites with more than just civil registration data. Two of the major categories are Census and Parish Register data. To highlight this fact the menu on the left of the UKBMD pages has been enhanced to add another button for Parish Registers. Click on this button and all the sites that we know of with on-line parish register data will be listed. At the top of the list will be a drop-down list of counties which will allow you to refine the list to show only sites for a chosen county. In a similar manner, the Census page has been enhanced also to allow you to refine the list based on a selected county. <snip>

Hello Trisha, As in many of our churchyards, many of the older MI's have been removed from the graveyard around St John but I have compiled a list of those remaining in situe on the Walsall Wood section of my website, and also for the annexe in Brookland Road. A longer list of stones removed is held at Stafford Record Office - afraid there is no WASHBROOK listed amongst my list. However, I do have the burial records for St John on microfiche and if you do not already have the details of John WASHBROOK's burial in 1905 I can do a quick look-up for you. Regards Sue Lote nee DERRY Names of Interest: DERRY, LOTE, RUSSELL, HOLMES, BLOORE, GLOVER, BLAKEMORE, DORSETT (DOSSETT), SEAGER, V(B)ALANCE, HAYWARD, WEBSTER, JUKES, JOHNSON, TYRER - Areas of Interest: Brownhills/Ogley Hay, Norton Canes, Walsall Wood, Aldridge, Stonnall, Shenstone, Burntwood, Hammerwich, Edial, Cannock, Longdon, Lichfield. -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of trisha walker Sent: 22 July 2012 19:11 To: STAFFORDSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] WASHBROOK Having had a long break from serious family history I am back!!  I am just wondering if anybody knows if there is a list of MI's for Walsall Wood Cemetery I am looking for a John WASHBROOK who died on the 4 September 1905 aged 15 months  And if anybody is looking at WASHBROOK or BOOT in the Walsall area please feel free to give me a shout!  Trisha in sunny Yorkshire (makes a change)  ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Having had a long break from serious family history I am back!!  I am just wondering if anybody knows if there is a list of MI's for Walsall Wood Cemetery I am looking for a John WASHBROOK who died on the 4 September 1905 aged 15 months  And if anybody is looking at WASHBROOK or BOOT in the Walsall area please feel free to give me a shout!  Trisha in sunny Yorkshire (makes a change) 

hi Garry Long, 1861 census from find my past kings norton worcestershire piece 2120 folio 9 page 11 banner john nail maker 31 banner ann ditto 29 banner sarah ditto 11 banner william 6 annie 4 olive 1 often people moved about chasing work and small facts like place of birth etc changed

Garry, Logically, she should be in 1861 & 1871 census as Banner, 1881 & 1891 as Timmins, 1901 not sure, and 1911 as Long. I'm surprised you can't find her in more than one census to enable you to cross check consistency of age and birthplace. It always good to use more than one source. Perhaps you are setting you search criteria too tight. But there's more than one way to solve this problem. Unfortunately I don't have the time to check out every alternative. That's got to be up to you. The simple answer might be to buy her 1874 marriage certificate to John Timmins. That will give father's name, occupation, residence and possible clues in witnesses. FreeBMD has three possible births in West Bromwich around 1854. There may be other data on Staffs BMD. I'd also try both Ancestry & Find My Past for census records. They often have different transcriptions. Find My Past also allows a basic search for free and you can use occupation for her father which should be on the marriage to Robert Long. It would take me hours to go through all the possible alternatives. Peter

Hi Fay, Thanks for your response. I have tried BONNER but I have to admit I didn't think to try BUNNER - that's my next line of attack, Best regards, Garry -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fay Bielewicz Sent: 19 July 2012 08:38 To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] "John BANNER & daughter Sarah" Hi I have no answer to your particular query, but do try Bonner and Bunner also. My Bunners have been recorded under all three spellings. Good Hunting Fay -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Garry Long Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2012 7:56 AM To: STAFFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] "John BANNER & daughter Sarah" Hi, Just wondered if sks could help with any definite information about John BANNER & his daughter Sarah. Info I have so far is that Sarah would have been born c.1854 in West Bromwich. Now this is where it gets a little complicated, I have today received a marriage Cert of Sarah TIMMINS & my g-grandfather Robert LONG who married in October 1905 at the Registry Office in West Bromwich. Robert was a 55 year old widower & Sarah a 50 year old widow. Sarah's father is listed as John BANNER. I know that Sarah married a John TIMMINS in 1874 & had the following children - Isaac b.1875, John b.1878, Joseph b.1880, Dora b.1882, Deborah b.1885 & Ann Maria b.1887. I believe John TIMMINS was born c.1853 & I think he died in 1893 which would then fit in with the fact that Robert LONG had a daughter (Sarah LONG) with Sarah TIMMINS in 1898. I have a copy of the birth Cert which states parents names as Robert & Sarah LONG however I also know (from today's Cert) that Robert & Sarah didn't marry until 1905 (clearly they told a little fib when registering Sarah's birth). It seems by the time of the 1911 Census Sarah LONG (neé BANNER) had died (I think in 1910) as Robert LONG & daughter Sarah were living with his step-daughter & her husband, Deborah & Samuel SPERRINGS and their family. All seems ok but until I received the marriage cert today I thought Sarah's maiden name was TONKS, however it clearly states her father as John BANNER (Blacksmith - deceased). So my issue is confirming exactly who Sarah was as I cannot locate a marriage record of TIMMINS & BANNER which is what I would expect to find, unless of course she married prior to TIMMINS. So does anyone link to the BANNER's who could just possibly have some definitive information they could pass on to me please - it would be greatly appreciated, Regards, G.Long ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter, Thanks for your response, however I have already tried various Census searches but to no avail - never mind, the search continues, Best regards, Garry -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter R Booth Sent: 19 July 2012 07:10 To: staffordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [STAFFORDSHIRE] "John BANNER & daughter Sarah" Garry, The new data has just sent you on a different trail. But I think a little bit of research is required before you look elsewhere for help. 1861 and 1871 census should see Sarah Banner born c1854 with parents John & ??. It should then be simple to find John's marriage and mother's maiden name. You should then be able to use census and BMD records to find births, marriage, deaths etc of John & his wife. It's just a matter of one step at a time. Peter ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I have no answer to your particular query, but do try Bonner and Bunner also. My Bunners have been recorded under all three spellings. Good Hunting Fay -----Original Message----- From: staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:staffordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Garry Long Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2012 7:56 AM To: STAFFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [STAFFORDSHIRE] "John BANNER & daughter Sarah" Hi, Just wondered if sks could help with any definite information about John BANNER & his daughter Sarah. Info I have so far is that Sarah would have been born c.1854 in West Bromwich. Now this is where it gets a little complicated, I have today received a marriage Cert of Sarah TIMMINS & my g-grandfather Robert LONG who married in October 1905 at the Registry Office in West Bromwich. Robert was a 55 year old widower & Sarah a 50 year old widow. Sarah's father is listed as John BANNER. I know that Sarah married a John TIMMINS in 1874 & had the following children - Isaac b.1875, John b.1878, Joseph b.1880, Dora b.1882, Deborah b.1885 & Ann Maria b.1887. I believe John TIMMINS was born c.1853 & I think he died in 1893 which would then fit in with the fact that Robert LONG had a daughter (Sarah LONG) with Sarah TIMMINS in 1898. I have a copy of the birth Cert which states parents names as Robert & Sarah LONG however I also know (from today's Cert) that Robert & Sarah didn't marry until 1905 (clearly they told a little fib when registering Sarah's birth). It seems by the time of the 1911 Census Sarah LONG (neé BANNER) had died (I think in 1910) as Robert LONG & daughter Sarah were living with his step-daughter & her husband, Deborah & Samuel SPERRINGS and their family. All seems ok but until I received the marriage cert today I thought Sarah's maiden name was TONKS, however it clearly states her father as John BANNER (Blacksmith - deceased). So my issue is confirming exactly who Sarah was as I cannot locate a marriage record of TIMMINS & BANNER which is what I would expect to find, unless of course she married prior to TIMMINS. So does anyone link to the BANNER's who could just possibly have some definitive information they could pass on to me please - it would be greatly appreciated, Regards, G.Long ****************************** ATTENTION TO ALL:- When replying please remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. ****************************** PLEASE keep your Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software up to date. BEWARE of messages making it onto the List with a single URL. NEVER follow the link. It's usually from an infected source! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to STAFFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Garry, The new data has just sent you on a different trail. But I think a little bit of research is required before you look elsewhere for help. 1861 and 1871 census should see Sarah Banner born c1854 with parents John & ??. It should then be simple to find John's marriage and mother's maiden name. You should then be able to use census and BMD records to find births, marriage, deaths etc of John & his wife. It's just a matter of one step at a time. Peter

Hi, Just wondered if sks could help with any definite information about John BANNER & his daughter Sarah. Info I have so far is that Sarah would have been born c.1854 in West Bromwich. Now this is where it gets a little complicated, I have today received a marriage Cert of Sarah TIMMINS & my g-grandfather Robert LONG who married in October 1905 at the Registry Office in West Bromwich. Robert was a 55 year old widower & Sarah a 50 year old widow. Sarah's father is listed as John BANNER. I know that Sarah married a John TIMMINS in 1874 & had the following children - Isaac b.1875, John b.1878, Joseph b.1880, Dora b.1882, Deborah b.1885 & Ann Maria b.1887. I believe John TIMMINS was born c.1853 & I think he died in 1893 which would then fit in with the fact that Robert LONG had a daughter (Sarah LONG) with Sarah TIMMINS in 1898. I have a copy of the birth Cert which states parents names as Robert & Sarah LONG however I also know (from today's Cert) that Robert & Sarah didn't marry until 1905 (clearly they told a little fib when registering Sarah's birth). It seems by the time of the 1911 Census Sarah LONG (neé BANNER) had died (I think in 1910) as Robert LONG & daughter Sarah were living with his step-daughter & her husband, Deborah & Samuel SPERRINGS and their family. All seems ok but until I received the marriage cert today I thought Sarah's maiden name was TONKS, however it clearly states her father as John BANNER (Blacksmith - deceased). So my issue is confirming exactly who Sarah was as I cannot locate a marriage record of TIMMINS & BANNER which is what I would expect to find, unless of course she married prior to TIMMINS. So does anyone link to the BANNER's who could just possibly have some definitive information they could pass on to me please - it would be greatly appreciated, Regards, G.Long