I am a new member of the group. My ancestor was Joshua Spence, son of Isaac of Thomas Co., Georgia. I have enjoyed the discussion relating to the Georgia Spences, and I want to thank the contributors for their helpful information. We have some mysteries on our hands determining Isaac's origins. I don't have any answers, but I thought I would throw my two cents in. First, I want to say that of all the families I have researched, the Spences are about as tough as any to get my hands around. Their dates of birth are very hard to determine, because of large inconsistencies from census to census. Look at Isaac's birth years for the 6 censuses we find him in: 1820 - 1775/1794 1830 - 1780/1790 1840 - 1790/1800 1850 - 1785 1860 - 1773 1870 - 1775 At a minimum we have a 17 year span (1773 - 1790). I have the same problem with my ancestor, Joshua. In the 4 censuses he shows up in, his birth year is somewhere between 1806 and 1820. I am not as convinced as some of my fellow researchers that Isaac Spence of Thomas Co., GA connects to James and Jane of Augusta Co. Virginia, although I don't think it is unreasonable to pursue that possibility. I came into this discussion late and may have missed some of the evidence. Has something come out that ties Isaac to Virginia? The censuses don't. All three from 1850 through 1870 indicate that he was born in Georgia. I don't think the naming pattern alone is enough to make the connection. I have two other families who used Bluford, many that used Green, and at least one that used Thorp. They had no connection to Jane Bluford or to Virginia. What they did have in common with the Spences is that they gave out these names in the same part of Georgia during the same time period that the Spences did. Those names were not so unusual at that time in that part of the Georgia. If I were going to select Isaac's relatives based on naming patterns, I would connect him to Jeremiah Spence of Emanuel Co., GA, since he named a boy Isaac. (He also named one Green.) I am not aware of any other Georgia Spence family that used the name Isaac except my family and Jeremiah's. (Remember that Isaac also lived in Emanuel Co. at one time.) It is interesting to note that the LDS Ancestral Chart for James Spence and Jane Bluford shows Jeremiah as one of their sons. I wouldn't bet the ranch on the accuracy of these charts. Some may be accurate, but many are just someone's wild speculation. It is interesting to note, however, that Jeremiah made the chart and Isaac did not. Jeremiah, according to the 1850 census, was born in South Carolina. I have tried to identify as many early Georgia Spences as I could and see how many distinct families there were. If I do it by geographical location in the 1820 census, I start with two distinct groups. (For those of you who don't research Georgia, 1820 is the earliest census available.) One group I call the "Frontier Group". They were located in the new counties in the northwest part of the state bordering on Cherokee lands. The frontier group includes David Spence of Gwinnett Co.; Alexander Spence of Hall Co.; John Spence of Jasper Co.; and Nathan Spence, George Spence, and John Spence of Morgan Co. The other group I call the "Old Counties Group". They were located in that line of counties along the South Carolina border which was the original Georgia. In the Old Counties Group we have Harris Spence, Nancy Spence, and Mary Spence of Burke Co.; Blueford Spence and Isaac Spence of Emanuel County; and Insel Spence of Screven Co. All 3 of these counties were contiguous. I want to mention in passing that Insel, a most unusual name, was a name given to a grandson of my ancestor, Joshua. I have a tendency to want to connect all of the families of the Old Counties Group together. Although they were in 3 different counties, it would have been possible for them to live within a short distance of each other, perhaps less than 10 miles apart. I am not as comfortable doing the same with the Frontier Group. For one reason the counties were not as close to each other. Some members of the Frontier Group may have been from the Old Counties Group. We know that many of the Old Counties Group eventually headed out to the Georgia frontier counties. Indeed, by 1830 Joshua Spence had moved to Appling County (in the southeast) and Isaac Spence to Thomas County (in the south central). That's also about the time that some of them made the move to southwest Georgia along the Chattachoochee River. Specifically, we find in the 1830 census Nancy Spence and Jane Spence (whoever she was) in Early County and John Spence (whoever he was) in the neighboring county of Randolph, from which Stewart County was spun off shortly thereafter. Records show Bluford Spence was in Stewart County by 1832. (I don't know where he was for the 1830 census.) It seems to me that if any of the Old Counties Group were connected to James and Jane of Augusta Co., VA, then Isaac probably was too. That makes the DAR application of Susan Spence Ward of value to Isaac's descendants. Now, I wouldn't bet the ranch on the accuracy of a DAR application either. I've reviewed many of them. They are available to the public on microfilm in the DAR library in Washington. Most were disappointing in terms of documentation to support the claims. Some were clearly wrong on their face. To me, the application of Susan Spence Ward needs some good documentation and explanations for it to make sense. She connects herself to a Thorpe Spence and calls him the son of James and Jane. There was a Thorpe Spence in Burke Co., GA quite early, but it is not so clear to me that he is the one who is supposed to be the son of James and Jane. According to the application information, Thorpe was born in 1774. The Thorpe in Burke Co., GA signed a petition to the governor between 1789 and 1793. If it is the right Thorpe, then he would have been no older than 19 at the time he signed, and perhaps as young as 15. I don't think there was any age requirement to sign a petition, but I don't think the Governor would be much interested in the views of a teenager. Moreover, these dates would have Thorpe moving to Georgia at an age of 15 to 19 without his parents. Although it may not have any bearing on the DAR application, I note that Susan has Thorpe dying in 1828. I believe the Burke Co. Thorpe was dead by 1820. In 1821 in Emanuel Co., Bluford Spence, along with some others, was appointed guardian of Thorpe's two orphans. Now, for anyone who wants to check out the Spence DAR applications, here are some other numbers of Georgia applicants based on James Spences of Virginia: Spence, James VA 391953, 205662, 449174, 350810 Spense, James VA 482553 Good Hunting! Duke Vickrey