Hi, I'm sending this to both lists because I'm not sure everyone is on the new list yet. Thanks for the census posting Jean. It seems we are dealing with 2 Jonathan's here. One born abt. 1812, a son of an Elizabeth who died in Pulaski Co. VA 1851. This Jonathan married Mary Holmes and several people are looking for him, although they don't belong to our group. I e-mailed 2 people about a year ago, and neither answered. The other Jonathan, Norm's Jonathan, was born about 1805-1808 in Bath Co. KY, which wasn't formed until 1811, so to my logic Jonathan was born in either Tazewell or Russell Co. VA ( because they are the 2 counties Bath was formed from ) and that puts Jonathan right in the middle of the other Spence families we are researching. From Norm's research Jonathan Thomas Spence married Elizabeth McClain on 12/28/1826 in KY. Jonathan had at least 2 brothers, names unknown, although one was born in 1795. Jonathan & Elizabeth had at least 2 children, Andrew Trumbo Spence and William Spence who married Phebe Peden. Andrew Spence married Eliza or Elizabeth and they had a son John Alexander Spence born in 1875. This family moved on to California very early. I think I will make copies of this chart with what I have added to the backside of it, and maybe mail everyone a copy who wants one. It looks like a puzzle and you can see where certain people could logically fit given DOB and family names and location. For instance several families were in Washington, Russell and Grayson area which would be the general area Norm's Jonathan could have came from. Tazewell also. That's why if we can find managerial districts and creek names, we can pinpoint where these families were. Keep in mind that the reason counties were created was because the settlers complained of having to go so far to the courthouse, so if someone was married in one county that doesn't mean that they resided in that county. So we are looking at the south west region in general. Take Eleanor Spence, daughter of Betsey, born abt. 1802. It's likely she had brothers and sisters, but so far we haven't identified them. Jonathan fits into that age group. Norm asked why they married older women ? I guess the selection was limited. They in this region often took Indian women for wives, but no marriage records exist. Commom law marriage was accepted to some extent among the mountain folks. Some women may have been Cherokee women and adopted a English name. I have found that to be true in several of my families. The Cherokee women were known to be very gentle and loving, good mothers and wives. ( Just don't make them angry ) :) Enough history lesson for today, Let's keep digging, hang in there Norm, Carolyn