Gang, Back to Thomas Spence of NC, I have this in my historical map collection. Yadkin County, NC shows a Thomas Spence with land grant 1783, next to neighbor Abiel Cobb land grant 1782. David Spence land grant 1789, and Thomas again with a land purchase 1787. Some neigbors surrounding these locations were Keen ( which was also seen in the Surry Co. map) Bacon,Waggoner, Sparks, Gentry, Spurling, Wood, Allen, Lewis, and several others. What interests me is the fact that Ashe/Alleghany counties were home to Sparks, Spurling, Waggoner, Gentry, Cockerham, and Woodruff families who surround the Spence tracts in Yadkin County. Yadkin county was a part of Surry county. These people are living in what was called the "Allen Settlement" which was on the "Iron Works Road" so named because of the iron ore deposits which were being mined. I have several family lines involved in the iron ore mining of this area. The Allen Settlement included a "Meeting House" built in 1781, but the map doesn't say what denomination this church was. This settlement was in what is now called the Brushey Mountain range. Following is from: Surry County, NC Court Minutes 1790-1795, page 48 Ordered by the court that Thomas Spence, David Spence, William Spence, Samuel Downey, Peter Downey, Abraham Downey, Zenos Baldwin, Daniel Morris, Aaron Moore, William Sparks Junior, William Sparks Senior, James Sparks, Thomas Sparks, James Sisk, John Mash, Andrew Cornelison, Samuel Greenley, and Jesse Suttle be appointed a jury to view, mark and lay off a road the nearest and best way from the end of Fox Knob to William T. Lewis' Mill on SPENCE'S CREEK from thence into whats called Mine Hole Road and from said mill to the Iron Works and make report thereof to next court. END Looking at the map the above names all are living in Allen Settlement. Also nearby, but not in Allen Setttlement are some of my documented ancestors, the Moxleys, Spurlings, and Longs. Nathaniel Moxley and Zachariah Spurling died in Ashe County, NC, so I know for a fact that they moved from Surry to Ashe. If our elusive Burwell Spence had a reason to go to Ashe County to visit family perhaps, these Yadkin county Spence's are probably connected to him somehow. As I said there were Spence's in Alleghany Co census in 1860 and 1870, so it looks as if a Spence ancestor from the 1700's established them there. My Zachariah Spurling is living across the creek from David Spence and both have a standard land grant in 1789. Spence's Creek isn't listed on the map, although it probably is the branch off of Beaverdam Creek closest to David's land grant. David and Thomas' lands are spread apart in a triangle shape, thus Thomas 1783 at the top, Thomas 1787 at left bottom and David 1789 at right bottom. The 1787 land purchase of Thomas is next door to Josiah Keen, who also lived next door in the Surry County map. What we have here could be different families. As far as moving south, then North, it could have been because of the new iron ore deposit that was found in Ashe County. Several of my Surry county families moved to Ashe to work the mines. I think we should keep our eyes open for any Keen families, because in 2 locations about 35 miles apart, Josiah Keen lives next to a Thomas Spence. I've also seen the name JOSIAH SPENCE in Surry records. All for now, Carolyn

Gang, I wanted to post new member Larry's lineage to the net as he doesn't have a computer and I thought we may find some connections later. As far back as Larry has gotton is: GGG-grandfather was Foster C. Spence from Brunswick Co. VA wife Nancy of Greenville Co. GG-Grandfather was Joseph Watkins Spence, Brunswick Co. wife Tabitha of Greenville Co. G-Grandfather Robert Stephen Spence, Brunswick Co. wife Ida Jones Grandfather Robert Joseph Spence born in Pittsylvania Co. wife Hattie Hart Father Lester Lee Spence born Pittsylvania, wife Lorraine Cumbo Larry Lee Spence born Danville, VA, Pittsylvania Co. END Carolyn

Following is the narrative on Martha Spence Cornwell, written by James F. Carver, a valued member of our group. You may contact James at: 610 Gay St., Box 214, Portsmouth, OH 45662-0214 or via e-mail at heritage@zoomnet.net. "A Widow's Plight" Martha Spence Cornwell Martha Spence was born 8 April 1837 in Tazewell Co. VA, a daughter of William and Jane (Tuttle) Spence. Martha was raised in a very large family, she had five brothers ( Alexander ; George ; William ; James ; and John ) and four sisters ( Rebecca ; Mary ; Rachel ; and Louisa ). It was in the mid 1840's when this Spence family first made contact with the Cornwell family. Martha's sister Mary married on 21 Oct 1847 there in Tazewell County, VA to William Cornwell. Eight years later, on 17 April 1855, sister Rachel would marry Reuben Cornwell, a brother to William. On 11 Feb 1857 Martha would marry Nathan Cornwell, who was also a brother to William and Reuben, Thus, there in Tazewell County, VA, one can see the merger of the Spence and Cornwell families with the marriages of three Spence sisters to three Cornwell brothers. Nathan Cornwell was born in 1833 in Smyth County, VA, he as well as brothers William and Reuben, was a son of Joseph and Mary (Baber) Cornwell. Martha and Nathan were not married long before our nation erupted into Civil War. Nathan had another brother, Jacob Cornwell, who first enlisted into the army of the Confederate States of America in May of 1861, this must have encouraged Nathan to follow suit. A year later Nathan Cornwell enlisted in May of 1862 into the same military unit as brother Jacob had done, he joined the 50th Virginia Infantry- Company E. ( The principal home counties of the 50th Virginia were: Nelson, Amherst, Patrick, Carroll, Pulaski, Grayson, Smyth, Tazewell and Washington. When this regiment became fully activitied in July of 1861 it had 10 companies with 3 companies of calvary temporarily attached. By September this regiment was free of the calvary before they marched in Feb. 1862 into Tennessee where they were captured at Fort Donelson. ( Jacob Cornwell had involvement here.) After being exchanged this regiment was reassigned to the Dept. of Western Virginia and fought at Carnifax Ferry. When the regiment was reorganized in May of 1862, when Nathan Cornwell enlisted, they went on to fight numerous conflicts from Chancellorsville to Cold Harbor. The Cornwell brothers involvement ended at Cold Harbor in 1864 but the 50th VA Regiment continued on until it was disbanded in April 1865. Field officers were: Col. Thomas Goage, Alexander Reynolds, and A.S. Vandeventer, Lt Col. William Finney, Logan H.N. Salyer, and Majors Lynville J. Perkins and C.E. Thorburn.) Both the Cornwell brothers, Nathan and Jacob, were fighting with their CSA unit in Spotsylvania County, Virginia when their luck took a nasty turn. Near Cold Harbor on 5 May 1864 Jacob Cornwell was captured by Union Troops, brother Nathan Cornwell was captured shortly thereafter on 12 May 1864. These Cornwell brothers were carried by the railroad along with other P.O.W.'s northward and were imprisoned together at the Elmira Prison Camp, in New York. ( Elmira, NY is located about 5 miles from the Pennsylvania state line. In 1864 existing barracks on the Chemung River at Elmira was set apart to house as many as 5000 Confederate Soldiers, within one month after this prison opened more than 10,000 Confederate prisoners were stuffed into very deplorable conditions. Many P.O.W.'s were forced to sleep out in the open without blankets, the camp was totally unsanitary and there was a lack of food. Colonel Seth Eastman was in charge of the camp. The first troops to serve guard at Elmira were Negroes who were lured North from the South and formed into companies and regiments to guard their former masters. This was but one reason why the P.O.W.'s were treated so harshly. The camp surgeon was Chief D. L. Sanger who was repeated overheard making the statement.... " I have killed more Rebs than any other soldier at the front." Sanger deliberately murdered many of the sick prisoners. Elmira Prison Camp was the worst prison camp on either side. The prisons of the Confederacy could not take care of prisoners of war well, due to not having the resources to do so. On the other hand the North had plenty of resources but their treatment of prisoners was harsh and cruel, but worst yet, it was intentional. The Cornwell brothers arrived with the first batch of 400 prisoners on 6 July 1864. At the end of July there were 4,400 prisoners there, by August 10,000 were imprisoned there. At the end of the War, 2963 out of 12,123 or 25 percent Confederate POW's died at Elmira Prison.... a death rate only 2 percent less than Andersonville. the Confederate nickname for this prison was "Hellmira".... go figure........ ) Pvt. Nathan Cornwell while imprisoned at Elmira Prison was vacinated in the right arm, probably by the camp surgeon, Chief D.L. Sanger, and surprise, his arm became infected and gangrene set in to cripple his arm. Nathan did not loose his arm but remained cripple for life. Nathan was paroled on 11 Oct. 1864 but not released until the Union Army made a prisoner exchange on 15 Nov. 1864 at Venus Point on the Savannah River in Virginia. Nathan's brother Jacob, would be released in June of 1865. At least both survived. Nathan returned home to Tazewell County, Virginia to be with his wife Martha, due to his crippled arm he was unfit for any military duty. After the Civil War ended and our nation slowly began recovering, Nathan and Martha (Spence) Cornwell would leave Tazewell County, VA to find peace and safety. In 1868 Nathan and Martha would begin rebuilding their lives in Durbin, Boyd County, Kentucky. After 31 years of peaceful living Nathan would pass away on 30 May 1899 at the age of 75, leaving Martha, then 62 years old, a widow. Martha and Nathan only had 2 children, a daughter and a son, their son also a cripple. Nathan and Martha were so poor at his death that Martha was forced to move in and live with her children for support. On 11 March 1912 the General Assembly of the U.S. government passed a law which permitted Indigent widows of Soldiers to obtain a small pension, this applied mainly to Confederate Soldiers widows. On 27 June 1912, Martha (Spence) Cornwell filed an application for a Widow's pension. She began her paperwork nightmare 23 May 1912 by filling out papers called "Questions for Applicants", she submitted a marriage license document from Tazewell County VA, proving her marriage to CSA Veteran Nathan Cornwell along with witness statements. One witness for Martha, Sam Turman, of Boyd County, KY made a statement regarding Martha and Nathan as being... " The poorest people I ever saw". Witness George Rouse stated about Martha's wealth simply saying... " she has not got anything". Her best witness was her brother-in-law Jacob R. Cornwell. Jacob gave first hand testimony about Nathan Cornwell's military activity, his hard time there in the filthy Union Prison, etc. Jacob, then 79 years old, was living at that time at Fort Gay, Wayne County, West Virginia, but traveled to Boyd County to swear testimony on Martha's behalf. The Adjutant General's office of the War Department verified that Nathan Cornwell was a POW at Elmira Prison on 29 June 1912. Officials at the State Pension Board recommended that widow Martha (Spence) Cornwell's pension be allowed. While the pension was approved it has not been proven yet that Martha was actually paid a pension to support her during her last remaining years. (During the early 1900's many years after the terrible War between the States our nation was still having trouble healing wounds of that conflict. While it was easy for Union Veterans to gain pension, free bounty land for themselves or the widows to obtain such benefits, it was very difficult for Confederates to receive such benefits. While laws were passed granting Confederate Veterans and widows the same benefits ( first laws of being "politically correct" ) history proves most were denied for unfounded reasons. The political officials maintained the poor attitude that the Union won, thus deserved benefits and the South lost, deserving nothing. Based upon the records and documents used to compile this story there are doubts that Martha Spence Cornwell actually received her approved pension.)

Hi Folks.... Baber LIne ..in brief... JOHN BABER b. 10 Jan 1821 Jeffersonville, VA. d. 11 Oct 1910 Dow City, Iowa s/o: Fountain & Mary Baber M.: 1st- 29 Sept 1843 Smyth Co., VA to: Annis Rigsby 1828-1856 M.: 2nd- ca 1857 to: ANNA SPENCE d/o: James Spence & Elizabeth "Betty" Tuttle (hope this helps John) For Your Information........... Jim James F. Carver 610 Gay Street, Box 214 Portsmouth, Ohio 45662-0214 e-mail: heritage@zoomnet.net

Hi Folks......brief history on Palmer Line...; WILLIAM PALMER b.ca 1718 (Orange Co., VA) d. 1797 Augusta Co., VA. William Palmer was one of the early pioneer settlers of Augusta Co., VA. He purchased on 25 Jul 1740 - 388 acres of land for $ 11 British Pounds in what was then Orange Co., VA. ...area now Augusta Co., VA. ...near the Tinkling Springs Meeting House (Old Stone Church). ( William was living on Long Meadow Lane in 1744..probably the same land purchased in 1740.) William Palmer was a member of the Tinkling Springs Meeting House (Old Stone Church), thus his religious faith was Presbyterian. William Palmer's daughter: JANE PALMER married before 1790 to JAMES SPENCE s/o: James & Jane (Bluford) Spence. (My opinion there was NO issue from this couple.) William Palmer's daughter: MARTHA PALMER...m. 20 June 1796 to Abner Tuttle. Martha (Palmer) & Abner Tuttle's daughter: JANE TUTTLE m.: 4 Sept 1818 to: WILLIAM SPENCE, s/o: William & Mary (Anderson) Spence. For your information. Jim James F. Carver 610 Gay Street, Box 214 Portsmouth, Ohio 45662-0214 e-mail: heritage@zoomnet.net

I wanted to post this , as was given to me from the research of Essie Spence Goad. The notes are from John Perry Alderman, who was forever working to help us trace our families. He was working on another book, an annotated census for Carroll Co. of the year 1860, to be a companion for his earlier work, The 1850 Annotated Census of Carroll Co. VA. Referring to the 1860 census family # 562 Farmer, Joseph Susan ( this was Isham & Nancy's daughter) Spence, Burwell, 23 hired hand Quote: Burwell Spence, shown here as 23, was no doubt a grandson of the same name who was a veteran of the Revolutionary War, who settled on Burk's Fork and from whom most of the family of our county of that name descend. This Burwell was mustered into the 54th VA on Sept. 16,1861 and was with the regiment when it went into TENN. He was at Missionary Ridge where the army of TENN was routed and he was captured at Ringgold, GA in the course of the retreat. Sent to prison camp at Rock Island Barracks, ILL. He joined the Union army for frontier service on Oct. 13, 1864 after almost a year's imprisonment. ENDQUOTE At 23 years of age in 1860, this Burwell would have been born 1837-1838. This age matches the Burwell Spence who was a son of Drury & Jane Spence. This could possibly be the same Burwell Spence who died in 1909 and is buried in Colorado, along side a Drury Spence who died in 1910. Drury and Jane also had a son named Drury, a year or two younger than their son Burwell. Carolyn

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_913605614_boundary Content-ID: <0_913605614@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_913605614_boundary Content-ID: <0_913605614@inet_out.mail.tcia.net.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <msutphin@tcia.net> Received: from rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:18:34 -0500 Received: from mail.tcia.net (mail.tcia.net [206.107.115.3]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA12651 for <SPENCETOP@aol.com>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.tcia.net ([206.107.115.39]) by mail.tcia.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-52715U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for <SPENCETOP@aol.com>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:25:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3672A8A0.3B442A2A@mail.tcia.net> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:32:16 -0500 From: msutphin@tcia.net (Mary Ann Sutphin) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: "SPENCETOP@aol.com" <SPENCETOP@aol.com> Subject: Spence-Quesenberry Cem. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit E. J. "Jack" Spence 1851-1927, s/o Eli and Martha Spence Polly Spence, 1849-1918, d/o Isaac and Penelope Cock Bolt, w/o E.J. Spence. Ruth Spence Reese 1890-Apr 1970, d/o Jack and Pollie Spence. w/o Charlie Reese. Nancy Faye McPeak, 1953-1977, d/o Hugh and Gladys Quesinberry. James W. "Bill" Quesenberry, 1883-1950, Alcora Quesenberry, 1886-1968, d/o Jack and Polly Spence. James Mawyer Quesenberry, 1914-1970, s/o Bill and Alcora Spence Quesenberry. Cova S Quesenberry, b 1915 Harvey Edd Quesenberry, 1945-1987 Isaac Bolt and wife died in 1880, age 69 and 72 years. Isaac Bolt age 38 in 1850 Carroll census, Penelope Cock Bolt, d/o Reubin Cock. Gaylan D. Quesenberry, infant 1948, Kaye Quesenberry, 1953-1955. Two unmarked graves behind Isaac and Penelope, one unmarked infant grave foot of Polly Spence. James N. Quesenberry, 1951-1985. --part0_913605614_boundary--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_913605564_boundary Content-ID: <0_913605564@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Mary Anne typed this up for us . Thanks Mary Anne ! --part0_913605564_boundary Content-ID: <0_913605564@inet_out.mail.tcia.net.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <msutphin@tcia.net> Received: from rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:17:25 -0500 Received: from mail.tcia.net (mail.tcia.net [206.107.115.3]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA10029 for <spencetop@aol.com>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.tcia.net ([206.107.115.39]) by mail.tcia.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-52715U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for <spencetop@aol.com>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:40:39 -0500 Message-ID: <36729E39.33257374@mail.tcia.net> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:47:53 -0500 From: msutphin@tcia.net (Mary Ann Sutphin) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: spencetop@aol.com Subject: Spence Cemetery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This cemetery located on state rt. 638 between Laurel Fork and Dugspur. Across the rd from what was the George Spence Store. I will just send the years of b&d. Any you may want dates on, I can get from the Carroll County Cemetery records..This was copied in 1982, the graves identified by Essie Spence Goad. Georgia Lea Sutphin 1918-1977, d/o George and Leah Cain Spence George Hylton Spence 1883-1970, s/o Johnson and Mahala Turman Spence Johnson M Spence 1841-1907, s/o Eli abd Martha E. Jackson Spence Mahala, w/o Johnson Spence 1846-1912, d/o George H. and Elizabeth Sutphin Turman. Grant Sutphin, 1900-1929, s/o Gilbert and Martha Spence Sutphin Gilbert Sutphin, 1875-1948, s/o Benjamin Elliott and Obedience Prater Sutphin. Martha E Spence Sutphin, 1877-1947, d/o Johnson and Mahala Turman Spence. Warren F. Sutphin, 1904-1971, s/o Gilbert and Martha Spence Sutphin. Essie Spence Goad, 8 Dec. 1909 d/o George H. and Lea Cain Spence. Edgar Goad 1902-1973, s/o Harvey and Rosabell Goad Eugene R. Goad 1937-1944, s/o Ed and Essie Ethel L Spence 1911-1973, d/o George and Leah Cain Spence. Cal Lee Thompson, 1935, s/o Henry and Ethel Spence Thompson. Claborn Hatcher, 1934-1935, s/o Robert and Ida Sutphin Hatcher Marvin H. Spence, 1913-1933, s/o George and Leah Cain Spence. Ernest Spence, 1904-1907, s/o George and Leah Cain Spence. Lottie Spence Nester, 1890-1932, d/o John Carroll and Julia Ann Turman Spence. John Carroll Spence, 1852-1933, s/o Johnson and Mahala Turman Spence. Eli Spence 1816-1892, s/o Isham. Nancy Redpath Spence, died 1859. Attaway Bolt, 1850-1904, d/o Adeline Bolt. Adeline Bolt, b 1830-? d/o James and Elizabeth Magaha Bolt. Dolph Bolt,1892-1899, s/o Hiram and Nancy Bolt. Dorothy Bolt, 1925-1928, d/o Emmett and Mertie Bowman Bolt. Crawford E. "Ed" Bolt, 1921, PVT.47th INF. 4th DIV. s/o Hiram and Nancy Bolt. Emmett Bolt, 1898-1967, s/o Hiram and Nancy Newman Bolt. Mertie Bolt, 1904-(dec) d/o Norman Bowman. Lucy Tolbert, no dates, d/o Rachel Tolbert. Silas Knighten, no dates, s/o Lynn and Cornia Spence Knighten. Fielden Bolt, 1880-1967, s/o James A. and Mary Kemp Bolt. James A. "Mander" Bolt, 1855-1933, s/o Adeline Bolt. Mary Bolt, 1853-1936, d/o George Peter and Matilda Sutphin Kemp. Alberta Norris, 1855-1919, d/o James A.and Mary Bolt. Dora Fredrick, 1883-1925, d/o James A. and Mary Kemp Bolt. Sanford Bowman, 1900-1971, s/o William Ira and Laura Spence Bowman. Zonie S. Bowman, 1904-(dec) d/o William and Jennie Sutphin. Donnie O.Bowman, 1893-1978, d/o Ira and Laura. (This needs checked) Euell Dison Spence, 1908-1981, s/o C.W. and Martha Alice Moles Spence. Carrie Bowman Spence 1915- (Living) Julia Ann Spence, 1852-1939, wife of John Carroll Spence, d/o George and Elizabeth Sutphin Turman. Lusanne Spence, b 1882, d/o Isham and Mary Francis Mabry Spence. Marthacity Spence, b 1881, d/o John Carroll and Julia Anne Turman Spence. Larmie Spence, b 1871, d/o Johnson and Mahala Turman Spence. Dick Bolt, no dates, s/o Adeline Bolt, Arthur L. Bolt, no dates, s/o Hiram and Nancy Bolt. Willie Bolt, no dates, s/o Adeline Bolt. Norman C. Gupton, 1929-1974, US Air Force, husband of Helen Bolt, d/o Emmet and Mertie Bowman Bolt. William KEMP, d June 1870. This is the first Kemp settler to Carroll County. Odel Goad, 1906-1960, s/o Harvey and Rosabelle Kemp Goad. Mozelle McPeak Goad, 1920, d/o Grace Mcpeak Dalton. Ellis E. Bowman, s/o William Ira and Laura Bowman. Georgia N. Bowman, d/o Subie Nester, s/o Canon Nester. J. Falus Spence, 1904-1945, s/o Wilk and Martha Alice Moles Spence. Columbus W."Wilk" Spence, 1878-1950, s/o John Carroll and Julia Ann Turman Spence. Martha Alice Spence, 1884-1963, d/o Ira and Victoria Mabry Moles. Silas Wilkerson Spence, 1921-1980, s/o "Wilk and Martha Alice Spence. Infant sons of Mr and Mrs George Bolt. Spence inf. s/o Henry and Mahala Mcpeak Spence. 2 Spence children by Silas Spence, Joe D. Spence, d 1864, s/o Jeremiah Spence, s/o Lewis Spence. William Ira Bowman, 1872-1954, s/o Mark and Lerosey Marshall Bowman. Laura Jane Bowman, 1872-1955, d/o Johnson and Mahala Turman Spence. --part0_913605564_boundary--

Hi Folks, No Carolyn, my ancestors who ended up with several "families" never had a total of 35 kids, wow...most averaged 12-19. I was always amazed at the pioneer ancestor who would raise a large family, wife became worn out and passed on, and the widower would remarry a teenager (sometimes same age as his own kids) only to then father another complete family...and sometimes repeat this same process a third time. ( I told my wife many moons ago before she hit 40 that when she did hit 40 I'd trade her off for 2 - 20 year olds...when that time came years ago I realized that I could no longer handle a 20 year old, nor did I desire one in truth...I dislike bubblegum and their crazy music! ) I've began my slow process gearing up to focus on the Thomas Spence d.1801 Surry Co. NC. I already assume the listed wife: LUCY will be most likely a 2nd wife. Carolyn...did you get my article on Martha Spence yet???? Later......Jim James F. Carver 610 Gay Street, Box 214 Portsmouth, Ohio 45662-0214 e-mail: heritage@zoomnet.net

Putting in my 2 cents worth.... I have proven in researching other bloodlines of mine (Wheeler / Sparks) that a man could possibly have more than 1 family..... I've got one Sparks character that was married three times (loved young women...well what man don't..sorry) and had many children with all three wives...making the age differences between children close to 40 years from the oldest with wife #1 to the youngest with wife #3. Obviously I truly admire this ancestor of mine...makes me proud. Jim James F. Carver 610 Gay Street, Box 214 Portsmouth, Ohio 45662-0214 e-mail: heritage@zoomnet.net

Hi, I wanted to post this link to Jody Goad's homepage. Jody has a very good gedcom most of which has been documented. If you can add anything on any of your families, he would be glad to hear from you. The only Spences' in it are my line and Essie's line though. <A HREF="http://jogoad.simplenet.com/">Jody Goad's Genealogy</A> Carolyn

Sheila, That's a very good possibility. I don't think anyone has ever proven which line of Puckett's Rebecca came from, the ones in NC or the ones in Tazewell Co. VA. Seems to me if they served in the same infantry unit, they at least mustered in the same place. Carolyn

Hi, Yep, Jim. Was he the guy who had 35 children in Carroll Co. area ? Who was that? Does anyone know ? About Thomas, remember the bit I posted about a Thomas who died in Surry Co. in 1801, who had a wife named Lucy ? It is thought that is about the time that Burwell went to Ashe Co. wasn't it ? Could be Thomas married Lucy as a 2nd wife. Depending on where this Surry Co. Thomas lived, the same area could have been Ashe Co. in 1799. He could have lived right on the new county line of Ashe. The little town of Roaring Gap. NC is right on the county line.in Alleghany Co. now. I've looked for a Lucy to be a possible mother of Burwell, since it ran so heavy in the Burwell surname. Lo and behold, here is a Lucy. Just to complicate things further, it is known that the people who lived on the state line of NC and VA, paid their property tax closest to their home. When you look at tax lists it may indicate that a person resided in one state or the other, yet, actually they may have simply been paying tax to the other state because the courthouse was closer. I've got an ancestor in another line, that bounced back & forth between Surry NC and Grayson VA, so it appears that he owned land in both states. He didn't as his land was in NC, yet he was closer to the Grayson court. The further west you went in NC the state line was indefinite for many years. What a royal mess ! Carolyn

I found a Kelsey Puckett that was in the same infantry in the Revolutionary War as Burwell Spence...I wonder if he may have been related to Burwell's wife, Rebecca??????? Sheila Anderson-Lewis

Hi all, As Sheila said 15 years could be a generation. I'm finding that most men in my lines married much later, say late 20's, early to mid 30's. Even then, they married much younger women. It could have been customs within different nationalities maybe ? Carolyn

Carolyn, Actually, the dates of birth of James and Burwell were 15 years apart. I have several ancestry lines that show fathers 14 and 15 years apart, due to the common age of marriage back then being in the mid to late teens. Some women were even married at the age of 12 and 13 and having children. But I suspect Thomas being the name of Burwell's father. Will let you know if I find anything. Sheila

Hi gang, To answer Bruce's question, we don't yet know how and if James Spence and Burwell Spence were related. Burwell's bunch were from Grayson/Carroll Co. VA and James' bunch were from Augusta Co. VA. Between 1820 and 1830, some of Burwell's children moved to Tazewell Co. VA where James' children & grandchildren were living also. So we have both groups in Tazewell Co. VA and don't know why. We think they may have been related somehow. We do know that James was not Burwell's father as James was born in 1748 and Burwell in 1763. It is entirely possible that they weren't related at all. We haven't found proof either way. Thomas Spence is very elusive. First, we have been told that he was a Colonial Soldier, most probably in the Pittsylvania/ Greenville Co. area, but can't find documentation. There were several Thomas Spences around in the same time period. It is thought that James' father was Thomas Spence and Mary Green(e). Likewise, some think that Burwell's father may have also been named Thomas Spence. Whether they are one and the same, we don't know yet. Anyone who has anything on Thomas' Rev. War service or where the information came from in the first place, please chime in ! Carolyn

Since this is all new to me I'm trying to figure out how the NC Burwell line and the Augusta Co. Va. line are related. Iit's probably very simple but could someone please explain it to me. It may be that Christmas is making my mind blurry as well. Also I've read that Thomas Spence was a revolutionary war patriot. How do we know that? If he was does anyone know whether it was in the militia and if so which one, or the Continental army. Thanks Bruce Spence

Thanks Sheila for posting on the above families. I wanted to throw in my 2 cents on these. From what I have read on Grayson/Carroll it is thought that the Cox families were Quakers who settled early on , then moved away. Of course, they left several older children who had married and stayed behind. The Cock(e) families are thought to be separate families. The tradition goes that 2 of the Cock(e) boys, later on in the 1800's, decided to go by the name of Cox, so that present day Cock descendants go by Cox. I have a Jesse Cox, Quaker, who moved away, that I'm stumped on. Most of the Quaker Cox families went to Tennessee, I think. Anyway, it's an interesting chase on Cock and Cox, because you have to explore both families to nab the ancestor you want......... I have a question for all the guys in the group. WHAT EXACTLY DID A WHEELWRIGHT, DO ? I guess he built wagon wheels maybe. Is that right ? Or did it have something to do with maintaining the stone wheels in a grist mill ? Help me guys ! I got a Franklin County VA settlers map the other day. It's a good map. Well done. Franklin was born from Bedford, so after getting the Bedford map and finding nothing interesting on it, I ordered Franklin and it does have some good things on it. For instance, there were several Burwell families on it dating to the 1700's. There was also a Burwell Tobacco Factory. Not a single Spence noted. I did notice that living near the Burwell families were Choate families. The Choate families were early settlers of Ashe Co. NC........ So this could be a possible link to the Spence families in Ashe/Alleghany Co. NC...... Maybe....... I also bought a Montgomery Co. VA book detailing the tax lists of 1788-1793 along with the free map which came with it, which is a great map. It has all the creek names and locations of old mills, and lead mines, and salt mines. With this I can pinpoint exactly where families lived as per their deeds and neighbors. Tazewell County at this time was not settled except for the eastern side just beyond Burke's Garden. Another thought on the Cocke family. I seem to remember reading once that the English had a habit of adding an "E" to their surname, which we as Americans, have dropped. Example. Cocke/Cock, Greene/Green, Browne/Brown, Blacke/Black, Thorpe/Thorp, Choate/Choat, etc. Does anyone else knowledge of that custom ? Later, Carolyn

traced back Penelope Cock (Issac Bolt's wife) family tree.. father is Reuben Cock, married to Sarah Kemp, his father was James Cock married to Elizabeth Richardson..now get this..His sister is Rhoda COX!!!!! His father was Andrew Cox married to Penelope Ward. His father was John Cox married to Elizabeth Goad , daughter of John Goad, son of Abraham Goad and Katherine Williams , who was the daughter of John Williams.......... and that is as far as I have gotten..So, what we have here is grandpa James (COX) just could not spell his own last name , and the family became COCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!