Barbara and all, I pulled out my historic map of Randolph Co. NC and wanted to pass along some tidbits from it. Martha Bell was the courageous lady who spied on Cornwallis' army in 1781. She rode horseback, which was unusual for ladies of her day, quite a distance into the neighboring parish of St. Matthew, to Walker's Mill, then galloped back to Bell's Mill which was the commissary for the American Army. The mill, her homesite, the place where she captured a Tory ( Steven Lewis), and the Bell Cemetery are all included on the map. Other names found are: Andrew Hunter, James Hunter ( a Regulator Commander at Alamance... Gov. Tryon burned Hunter's plantation ), Hartwell Hunter ( who was hung by Tories in March of 1781 and Col. William Washington and Light Horse Harry Lee captured a Tory and hung the Tory from the same limb of the persimmon tree), and Ninian Bell Hamilton, a Regulator is mentioned. Of interest to Duke Vickrey would be Marmaduke Vickrey who established a plantation in 1757 and owned a mill known as Vickrey Mill on the Deep River. If Duke has lost his Vickrey's, here they are in Randolph Co. NC.......... Today there is a Vickrey Chapel Road in the area. My husband and I own 4 acres of land just north of the Bell Cemetery. The Deep River will soon be changed forever with the Randleman Dam which has been in the planning stages for 30 years. Many historic properties will be under water and lost. I have tried to photograph as many as I can. Many of the locations on this map will be flooded. Many creekbeds have already been re- routed and dried up. Bell's Branch is just a little creek now, but 218 years ago it was much larger. From this historic map it looks as if it is a part of the little creek that runs through our property. I will get out the Randolph Co. Heritage volumes and see if I can find any relevant articles on Hunters or Bells ( and Spence ) if you would like me to....... Carolyn Spence

Greetings, this is Trish Spence Simmons thanks for the latest updates. My search is for info on my GGGG granfather. It is said that Foster's dad was born on a ship coming to the USA with his family. It is said they came from the McDuff's clan in Scottland. I would like to know what kine he was to William&john Spence. Foster's wifes name was Nancy of Greensville Co. VA. They also came or settle in Southhampton VA. Serry Co. VA. and Bruswick Co. VA and Serry Co. VA Please all info is of great concern , thank you so much for helping me to find my dads family roots it means so much to me,to keep my family alive in my heart and to try to know them even gone now they will stay alive to pass down to the aires of the spences to come. My dad was a great man! Lester Lee Spence. thanks again Trish

John Mallon, Did you see Barbara's message about the rising cost of getting things out of the archives. Do you want a part time job ???? Carolyn

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_917805862_boundary Content-ID: <0_917805862@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII More from Barbara..... --part0_917805862_boundary Content-ID: <0_917805862@inet_out.mail.yahoo.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <SPENCE-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-ya01.mx.aol.com (rly-ya01.mail.aol.com [172.18.144.193]) by air-ya01.mail.aol.com (v56.24) with SMTP; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:22:02 -0500 Received: from bl-14.rootsweb.com (bl-14.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.30]) by rly-ya01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA00226; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:21:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-14.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA13604; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:10:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:10:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990131171607.5032.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:16:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Barbara Inman Beall" <bbeall43@yahoo.com> Subject: From the Listowner: Getting Expensive!!! Old-To: INMAN-L@rootsweb.com, SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com Resent-Message-ID: <"X6cPDD.A.YTD.15It2"@bl-14.rootsweb.com> To: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1270 X-Loop: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SPENCE-L-request@rootsweb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I recently ordered a will from the Virginia State Library and Archives. Last year I had acquired several estate inventories from there and believed them to be quite reasonable. However, the other day they returned my check and sent a "sorry, but we have to..." letter. Apparently, getting copies of documents from State Archives has become a national pastime (besides football). So the VA State Library has been forced to: 1. Mandate a one person in one record from specific indexed materials rule. 2. Require a $20.00 NONREFUNDABLE service fee FROM OUT-OF-STATE RESIDENTS with EACH REQUEST FORM. The fee will include: (1) up to 10 photocopies, or (2) up to 3 photoprints from microfilm with a citation of the source. If copies of the complete document exceed 10 photocopies or 3 photoprints, a statement for additional copying costs will be sent before the order is processed. Virginia residents are exempt from the fee, but will be charged for copies at a discount. An invoice will be mailed with results of your request. 3. The following records CANNOT BE RESEARCHED BY MAIL: (a) births, deaths and marriages. There was no systematic recording of birth and death records in VA until 1853, and such records were not maintained by the state government between 1896 and 1912. Copies of birth and death records (1853-1896, 1912-present) and marriage records (1853-present) must be obtained from the Office of Vital records and Health Statistics, P.O. Box 1000, Richmond, VA, 23208, (804) 225-5000. (b) Census records. The library neither searches nor copies federal census population schedules. For that information--go to the National ARchives. (c) Confederate Service Records. copies of official service records for VA Confederate military units must be obtained from the National Archives. (d) West VA County Records. The Library of VA does not hold court records for counties and cities now in West Virginia. They suggest that you write the Division of Culture and HIstory, Archives and History section, The Cultural Center, 1900 Kanawha Boulevard East, Charleston, WV 25305. Well, I still want my will, and I'm not going to move to VA. So I guess I will send them the $20 nonrefundable fee (ouch) and fill out their form. I am glad I started ordering copies of documents from State Archives 5 years ago. The MD State Archives charged $10 in the past--but with the national pastime growing at such a tremendous pace, I would not be surprised if some of these other State Archives raise their fees!!! Barbara == Barbara Inman Beall, Ph.D. Professional Writer, Editor, Researcher Lancaster-Wormiston Press E-Mail: bbeall43@yahoo.com Voice Mail: (303)556-5477 Snail Mail: P.O. Box 173, Broomfield, CO 80038-0173 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --part0_917805862_boundary--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_917805631_boundary Content-ID: <0_917805631@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Talkin' with Barbara. Very interesting ! --part0_917805631_boundary Content-ID: <0_917805631@inet_out.mail.email.msn.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <bibeall@email.msn.com> Received: from rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (rly-zb01.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.1]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v56.24) with SMTP; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:46:14 -0500 Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA12699 for <SPENCETOP@aol.com>; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 208.254.191.181 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:46:01 -0800 Message-ID: <001e01be4d30$55f151c0$5ac3fed0@oemcomputer> From: "Barbara Beall" <bibeall@email.msn.com> To: <SPENCETOP@aol.com>, <SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: Rowan Co. NC Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:41:40 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You are correct. David Spence of the Fowler book was the only member of his line to settle in NC. He was there during the Revolutionary War where he was injured or became ill (I can't remember which). Mary Ann McElyea found him and nursed him back to health. He rejoined his unit, but he promised to return after the war and marry her--which he did. His descendants went to Robertson County, TN, and then part of them went to Illinois while others went to Texas. I have been curious about the Thomas Spence of Surry. I know that several Thomas Spences exist in the Pasquotank lines. There is quite a story about the Bell name in Randolph/Rowan County. I think it centers around Bell Mill. Mrs. Bell (I forget her first name) warned the Patriots that the British were coming. She served as a spy for Continental units. DAR has raised a monument to her somewhere in that area. Of course, I keep recalling that my 4-g grandfather (Elisha Spence, 1776-1835) married Jane Bell after the death of his first wife in 1810 in Davidson, TN. I think that Jane's Bell family (and Jane), came from Rowan or Randolph (or Burke), and that her family, among others, accompanied the Spences to Tennessee. By the way, while I am thinking about it...A few weeks ago I mentioned the Stillians or Skillians or Killians name as being connected with these people. I am in contact with a Bell descendant who told me to try the name "Skillern", which I did. These people came from VA. They went to TN by way of NC, and they settled in Madison County. An "A. Skillern" signed Elisha Spence's estate inventory in 1835. I had thought that Elisha's wife, Jane Bell Spence, had remarried a William Skillern for a short time. However, she remained a widow. William Skillern's wife was a Jane Wilsford. He died in Madison County in 1836. Two children of William and Jane were James Andrew Porter Skillern and Lucinda A.C. Skillern. My Bell researcher told me that her Bells settled in Rowan County and that these Skillerns had intermarried with the Bells. That would explain why Elisha Spence and his wife Jane left Davidson County for Madison ca. 1833. A number of these Skillerns moved from Tennessee to Arkansas. I ran across an article I am going to send away for on the "Isaac C.A. Skillern Bible 1807-71, Tennessee/Arkansas". I think that it will give me a number of answers. Concerning Thomas Spence of Surry--I don't know who he was as yet. He and my William Spence (1745-1785) of Pasquotank may have been cousins and they may have gone into Western NC together. Barbara -----Original Message----- From: SPENCETOP@aol.com <SPENCETOP@aol.com> To: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com <SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 10:03 PM Subject: Rowan Co. NC >Barbara, > In looking over some postings I notice that you said your Pasquotank >William was in Rowan County NC in 1767 and 1768. Do you have any theory on >who the Thomas Spence was, who was in Surry Co. NC on a 1768 tax list ? Surry >Co. was carved from Rowan. I recently got the copies of the pension >application of Burwell Spence who died in Carroll Co. VA. He says in his >application that he resided in Surry Co. NC when he was drafted the first time >in 1781 for militia duty. > Also I noticed that you have a Burwell Perry in your notes. Do you think >that Burwell was a family name or just a popular name ? I've looked into the >Burwell family of Isle of Wight Co. VA and found them in the same time and >place as the Southampton Co. VA Spences. > There were also members of the Burwell family in Ashe County NC and >Grayson Co. VA very early about 1770. > Back to Surry Co. NC there was a Thomas Spence whose estate was settled >in 1801 leaving a wife named Lucy. Many of us think that Burwell Spence's >father was a Thomas Spence. Question is which Thomas Spence was he ? > I bought the Fowler book and found no connection at all to my Spence line. >It looks to me that only the PA David Spence came to Surry Co. NC, then moved >on to TN. I don't see that his parents or siblings came from NJ to join him. > The Thomas Spence's in Surry County NC were already there before David >Spence ever met his wife to be, Mary McElyea. > In any event Burwell Spence was drafted from Surry Co. NC in 1781 and his >pension application contained the actual discharge dated by his commanding >officer in 1781. He was discharged at Bell's Branch, which unless I am >mistaken is the very same Bell's Branch which is here in Randolph County about >8 miles from me ! > >Is the Spence world getting smaller or what ? > >Thanks, >Carolyn Spence >Spencetop@aol.com >Listowner Spence-Bluford-L@ rootsweb >For descendants of Burwell Spence & James Spence >Patriots of the Revolution > --part0_917805631_boundary--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_917805496_boundary Content-ID: <0_917805496@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >From Barbara's list. Interesting Dalton stuff. --part0_917805496_boundary Content-ID: <0_917805496@inet_out.mail.email.msn.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <SPENCE-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v56.24) with SMTP; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:29:27 -0500 Received: from bl-14.rootsweb.com (bl-14.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.30]) by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA03588; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:29:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-14.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA07134; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:17:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:17:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001101be4d2d$ca9545c0$5ac3fed0@oemcomputer> From: "Barbara Beall" <bibeall@email.msn.com> Old-To: "Spence Farm" <spencefarm@junct.com> Old-Cc: <SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: SPENCE Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:24:26 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"tFYe9C.A.ttB.iIIt2"@bl-14.rootsweb.com> To: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1267 X-Loop: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SPENCE-L-request@rootsweb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't recognize the names. However, I am going to assume that W. L. Spence's first name was "William". I have been looking for a certain "Will" Spence who lived either in Kansas or Oklahoma. In the movie "The Last Day" (the story of the demise of the Dalton Gang in Coffeyville, KS in October 1892), a "Will" Spence was an ex-gunfighter who settled in Coffeyville and who "saved the town" from the gang. He had a wife named Betty. Coffeyville is not all that distant from the area you are describing. My grandfather (William Franklin Spence, 1884-1973), lived in Coffeyville with his family in 1892. They had just moved there after a year in Muleshoe, Texas. Grandpa was in town with his father (Salathiel Monroe Spence) that morning and witnessed the entire gunfight. He talked about that incident quite a bit over the years. The narrator in the movie said that Will and Betty Spence spent the rest of their lives in Coffeyville. The possibility exists that the W. L. Spence buried in this graveyard is the Will Spence I am seeking. There must have been a Will Spence living in the Coffeyville area. I don't think the writers in Hollywood would have pulled that Spence name out of thin air!!! Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Spence Farm <spencefarm@junct.com> To: bibeall@email.msn.com <bibeall@email.msn.com> Cc: SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com <SPENCE-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 6:49 PM Subject: SPENCE >Hi Barbara, will check out Spences in Ottawa County. There is a Spence >at Welch, Craig County, her husband was the Spence, now deceased. Fern >doesn't know too much about her husband's family, (I don't remember his >name). > >Several years ago, Betty White, White's Printing Co., in Vinita, told me >there are two stones on her farm. No graves that she knows of, just >stones. The right side of concrete was broken off one of them. They are >as follows: Do you know these people??? > >W. L. Spence, b. Oct 30, 1845, died Feb 10, 1901, age 55 yrs 3 mo. 11 >days > >Garry A. Spence, b. Mar 21 188-, died may 19 19--, age 20 yrs 1 mo 28--. > >As far as I know, they are still there, she lives in Ottawa County on a >farm. I'll ask when I see her again. Will send pages you want on >Talliferro-Tollivers next week. Keep in touch, Marilynn > > --part0_917805496_boundary--

Hi Trish and Larry, I guess you are brother and sister ? I don't have anything concrete on Foster, but I can give you some direction maybe. Gang, Foster C. Spence is one person we can prove that was in the Southampton Co VA area. From what Larry sent me in a letter: Foster's unknown father was born on a ship bringing his family to America. Foster's father grew up and married a Powhatan Indian maiden. Foster married a Nancy and Foster died before 1850. The widow Nancy was found in the 1850 cenus with children, Mary 22, Rebecca, 14, Joseph 12, Lucy 11, and son Benjamin who was about 13 was living in a neighbor's household. >From this I notice a 8 year gap in ages between Mary and Rebecca. Could Nancy have been a 2nd wife ? Did children die in an epidemic ? Why the gap in ages ? How old was Foster Spence ? Can you find him on a 1800 or 1810 census or tax list ? If he died as an older man before 1850 and Nancy was a 2nd wife, when was he born approx. ? If you can calculate when Foster was born, then you can estimate his father's age. With a age for Foster's father, a search of ship arrivals may turn up this Spence family. Look for families who arrived on the James River, or the Chesapeake Bay most likely. You may want to check the Rehobeth Beach area of Delaware also , as that was a favorite place to unload passengers. A large group of Spence's can be found in the middle of the penninsula. These are the ones who became known as the Somerset Maryland line, although some of them migrated to various parts of VA. Look on your trusty Rand McNally atlas in Maryland and see the community of SPENCE on the beach. The Somerset line had some runaways who settled in Northampton Co. VA, which is the southern end of the penninsula. Others still are thought to have journeyed farther on to Isle of Wight Co VA after they took the Chesapeake Bay bridge. <grin> Barbara Beall tells us that she thinks the Robert of Isle of Wight could have been an Uncle of her David Spence of the Somerset line. So there we have a vague connection. Barbara is still working on it. The state of VA lost most of its census records in the Revolution because the red coats burned down the courthouse at Williamsburg. There does survive a 1760 TAX LIST for the state of VA that most libraries have. By the process of elimination, see if you can locate any Spence families that could have been Foster's grandparents. You'll have to check several counties since you don't know when Foster moved to Brunswick County. Foster's AGE is your key to unlocking this mystery. With Foster as a first name, also look for FOSTER families in the areas. Dollar to a doughnut he was named that after his mother's maiden name ! Even if she was Powhatan, they adopted European surnames. Heck, Pocahontas was Powhatan. And another thing, it was her father that ordered the Indian attack that killed (?) Ensign William Spence in Jamestown in 1623. Find the Fosters, and you'll probably find Foster's folks. O. K. ? That's all I can do for you now. That's your homework assignment......... Have fun ! Carolyn

Cousins, Pardon last nights message. I was tired and ill. I'm only suggesting that we need to keep our avenues open to the Westmoreland line and the Surry line. It has been published in so many places that James (1748) son of Thomas, was from the Southampton line. We need that crucial piece of hard evidence to connect Thomas to William. I know Luanne has been searching for that piece for years, and others have also. I invited another lady to join us who is researching the Southampton line also. I'm still digesting the GA group. My oh my ! When we get back far enough I think we will connect into a larger Spence line. Getting to that point is our problem. Spence research is truly one of the hardest because it was one of the first families of this nation. The first recorded Ensign William Spence was here in 1624, for goodness sakes, so by 1748 it had already been 124 years of people having 14 children who had 14 children who had 14 children ! That's why it is so spread out ! I happen to have the records on " The Living and The Dead in Virginnie" and Ensign Spence is reported both alive and dead after the Indian Massacre ! That's where the confusion starts, back in 1623-1624. Boy howdy, do we have a job cut out for us ? Carolyn

Carolyn and other long-time researchers, Being new to the group, I am wondering how the Westmorland Spences fit in with our William Spence Family, or is that the real question? I must admit that I like the Westmoreland group with all of their Patricks. Could we just adopt them? They seem like a fiesty group also. Just a little frivolity early in the morning. Thanks to Duke for the letter. I have been exchanging thoughts with him for about a year now. I don't always like it when he throws a curve in my thoughts, but he is almost always correct in his thinking and I have learned to respect his work. Gloria

Gang, Those with charts need to get them out and throw away the first page. Let's start over there concerning William who left the Will in 1758 in Southampton County. Because of the wording of William's Will , the only child that we know to be his is Elizabeth and that was because he deeded a tract of land to her and specifically stated he was giving it to her because of the "affection for his daughter Elizabeth McElmore", so let's go over William's Will again. William is said to have been married to Mary Thorpe daughter of Jeremiah and Martha Thorpe. William mentions in his Will, Mary Bass who is to live on his plantation her lifetime. Bass researchers think Mary Bass may have been William's sister. John Spence may have been a brother. He is thought to have married Martha or Media Thorpe, who is thought to be a sister to Mary Thorpe's father Jeremiah Thorpe. Because of the above relationship, it rules John out as being a son of William and Mary Spence. If the above is true regarding John Spence, then William married his sister-in-law's brother's daughter ? Oooh.... Isn't it easier just to assume that if William had a brother named John, maybe he had a son named John too ? William's Will mentions another Mary, who is thought to have been his daughter. He mentions a Lucy Powell, possibly a daughter, not proven. He mentions John McElmore husband of his daughter Elizabeth, but not Elizabeth by name. This is Carolyn speaking here and if some get mad I'm sorry. This Southampton County line is so tied up in knots I don't see how in the world anyone knows what is going on here ! James Carver has found Thomas Spence, the Colonial Soldier in Augusta County VA, where James Spence was said to have been born in 1748. I'll buy that. In the above Will where is Thomas ? Why wasn't he mentioned ? Then we have the problem of Mary Greene married to both Thomas and William Spence. Which was it or was Thomas both, as in William Thomas Spence ? What links Thomas Spence the Colonial Soldier to Southampton County ? I am more inclined to keep the option open that the Augusta County Thomas came from either the Westmoreland County VA line or the Surry County VA line. Both lines have Williams and Thomas'. And they are much closer to Augusta County than Southampton. Could it be that researchers years ago grabbed what they could find and grafted it into this tree, as I mentioned before ? The Westmoreland line is full of gaps and missing sons & daughters. As I've said before some people descended from Westmoreland County VA settled Ashe and Surry Co. NC, so the line stretched that far. In fact there are many families in Surry Co. NC that can be traced back to the shores of the Rappahanock River. I have a William Spence in the Westmoreland line that was bequeathed a "great gun" by a Draper and then disappeared. Where did William and his great gun go ? Maybe with the other Drapers that left Westmoreland and ended up in Augusta County ? Anyway, it looks to me we are trying to pound a square peg in a round hole here on Southampton County. I think we need a new direction. If I'm wrong please let me know. What don't I see, besides Thomas ? Have I stared at this chart until I've lost my grip ? Send the men in the pretty white coats. Carolyn

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_917735960_boundary Content-ID: <0_917735960@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_917735960_boundary Content-ID: <0_917735960@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <> Received: from rly-ya02.mx.aol.com (rly-ya02.mail.aol.com [172.18.144.194]) by air-ya03.mx.aol.com (v56.24) with SMTP; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:17:57 -0500 Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by rly-ya02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA01312 for <SPENCETOP@aol.com>; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo27.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) with internal id PAA28259; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:17:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:17:55 -0500 (EST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com> Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: rootsweb: host not found) Message-Id: <199901302017.PAA28259@imo27.mx.aol.com> To: SPENCETOP@aol.com Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The original message was received at Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:17:28 -0500 (EST) from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** An e-mail you sent to an Internet destination could not be delivered. The Internet address is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your e-mail could not be delivered is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail administrator or Postmaster at that destination. ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <S.comPENCE-BLUFORD-L@rootsweb> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 <S.comPENCE-BLUFORD-L@rootsweb>... Host unknown (Name server: rootsweb: host not found) ----- Original message follows ----- Received: from SPENCETOP@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id FLWNa26231 for <S.comPENCE-BLUFORD-L@rootsweb>; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:17:27 -0500 (EST) From: SPENCETOP@aol.com Return-path: <SPENCETOP@aol.com> Message-ID: <9322bb9a.36b368d7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:17:27 EST To: S.comPENCE-BLUFORD-L@rootsweb Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Insel Spence Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Hi gang, I noticed the mention of Insel Spence and wouldn't you know that we don't have any descendants of his that I know of, but there was a Insel Spence in Dobbs county NC for many years. I think he came out of the Pasquotank NC line, so that might be a clue as to where the GA Insel came from. I enjoyed Duke's posting. I like the way that research was logically defined. I also think that the name Green will mean nothing, because most all families had a Green. I think by 1800 family given names had pretty much started to die out. Bluford does seem a strange name though. I can't imagine that being a "popular" name for young boys. But then again I have Buford's in my family. ( How about Buford Pusser ? Remember him ? ) HA I don't see any point in ordering Dar applications ( changed my mind) because whatever is in them has already been passed around for years. In the late 1800's and early 1900's there was a big interest in genealogy and many books were written which people still use as a source. I don't trust them because from the information available at that time, people grabbed anyone in the vicinity with the same surname and drafted it into their tree, and unfortunately these trees are still being repeated as true when they aren't. Mary Green for instance is reported to have been married to a William Spence and in another Thomas Spence, however both trees state James Spence ( 1748) as the son born of that union. Both of these trees are on Barbara's SPENCE list if anyone wants to look. As to the children of James & Jane Bluford Spence, I'm still wondering about the dates children could have been born. Given a normal childbearing life of a child born about every 18 months, how many could she have bore ? And when ? Just rambling, enough for now, Carolyn --part0_917735960_boundary--

I am a new member of the group. My ancestor was Joshua Spence, son of Isaac of Thomas Co., Georgia. I have enjoyed the discussion relating to the Georgia Spences, and I want to thank the contributors for their helpful information. We have some mysteries on our hands determining Isaac's origins. I don't have any answers, but I thought I would throw my two cents in. First, I want to say that of all the families I have researched, the Spences are about as tough as any to get my hands around. Their dates of birth are very hard to determine, because of large inconsistencies from census to census. Look at Isaac's birth years for the 6 censuses we find him in: 1820 - 1775/1794 1830 - 1780/1790 1840 - 1790/1800 1850 - 1785 1860 - 1773 1870 - 1775 At a minimum we have a 17 year span (1773 - 1790). I have the same problem with my ancestor, Joshua. In the 4 censuses he shows up in, his birth year is somewhere between 1806 and 1820. I am not as convinced as some of my fellow researchers that Isaac Spence of Thomas Co., GA connects to James and Jane of Augusta Co. Virginia, although I don't think it is unreasonable to pursue that possibility. I came into this discussion late and may have missed some of the evidence. Has something come out that ties Isaac to Virginia? The censuses don't. All three from 1850 through 1870 indicate that he was born in Georgia. I don't think the naming pattern alone is enough to make the connection. I have two other families who used Bluford, many that used Green, and at least one that used Thorp. They had no connection to Jane Bluford or to Virginia. What they did have in common with the Spences is that they gave out these names in the same part of Georgia during the same time period that the Spences did. Those names were not so unusual at that time in that part of the Georgia. If I were going to select Isaac's relatives based on naming patterns, I would connect him to Jeremiah Spence of Emanuel Co., GA, since he named a boy Isaac. (He also named one Green.) I am not aware of any other Georgia Spence family that used the name Isaac except my family and Jeremiah's. (Remember that Isaac also lived in Emanuel Co. at one time.) It is interesting to note that the LDS Ancestral Chart for James Spence and Jane Bluford shows Jeremiah as one of their sons. I wouldn't bet the ranch on the accuracy of these charts. Some may be accurate, but many are just someone's wild speculation. It is interesting to note, however, that Jeremiah made the chart and Isaac did not. Jeremiah, according to the 1850 census, was born in South Carolina. I have tried to identify as many early Georgia Spences as I could and see how many distinct families there were. If I do it by geographical location in the 1820 census, I start with two distinct groups. (For those of you who don't research Georgia, 1820 is the earliest census available.) One group I call the "Frontier Group". They were located in the new counties in the northwest part of the state bordering on Cherokee lands. The frontier group includes David Spence of Gwinnett Co.; Alexander Spence of Hall Co.; John Spence of Jasper Co.; and Nathan Spence, George Spence, and John Spence of Morgan Co. The other group I call the "Old Counties Group". They were located in that line of counties along the South Carolina border which was the original Georgia. In the Old Counties Group we have Harris Spence, Nancy Spence, and Mary Spence of Burke Co.; Blueford Spence and Isaac Spence of Emanuel County; and Insel Spence of Screven Co. All 3 of these counties were contiguous. I want to mention in passing that Insel, a most unusual name, was a name given to a grandson of my ancestor, Joshua. I have a tendency to want to connect all of the families of the Old Counties Group together. Although they were in 3 different counties, it would have been possible for them to live within a short distance of each other, perhaps less than 10 miles apart. I am not as comfortable doing the same with the Frontier Group. For one reason the counties were not as close to each other. Some members of the Frontier Group may have been from the Old Counties Group. We know that many of the Old Counties Group eventually headed out to the Georgia frontier counties. Indeed, by 1830 Joshua Spence had moved to Appling County (in the southeast) and Isaac Spence to Thomas County (in the south central). That's also about the time that some of them made the move to southwest Georgia along the Chattachoochee River. Specifically, we find in the 1830 census Nancy Spence and Jane Spence (whoever she was) in Early County and John Spence (whoever he was) in the neighboring county of Randolph, from which Stewart County was spun off shortly thereafter. Records show Bluford Spence was in Stewart County by 1832. (I don't know where he was for the 1830 census.) It seems to me that if any of the Old Counties Group were connected to James and Jane of Augusta Co., VA, then Isaac probably was too. That makes the DAR application of Susan Spence Ward of value to Isaac's descendants. Now, I wouldn't bet the ranch on the accuracy of a DAR application either. I've reviewed many of them. They are available to the public on microfilm in the DAR library in Washington. Most were disappointing in terms of documentation to support the claims. Some were clearly wrong on their face. To me, the application of Susan Spence Ward needs some good documentation and explanations for it to make sense. She connects herself to a Thorpe Spence and calls him the son of James and Jane. There was a Thorpe Spence in Burke Co., GA quite early, but it is not so clear to me that he is the one who is supposed to be the son of James and Jane. According to the application information, Thorpe was born in 1774. The Thorpe in Burke Co., GA signed a petition to the governor between 1789 and 1793. If it is the right Thorpe, then he would have been no older than 19 at the time he signed, and perhaps as young as 15. I don't think there was any age requirement to sign a petition, but I don't think the Governor would be much interested in the views of a teenager. Moreover, these dates would have Thorpe moving to Georgia at an age of 15 to 19 without his parents. Although it may not have any bearing on the DAR application, I note that Susan has Thorpe dying in 1828. I believe the Burke Co. Thorpe was dead by 1820. In 1821 in Emanuel Co., Bluford Spence, along with some others, was appointed guardian of Thorpe's two orphans. Now, for anyone who wants to check out the Spence DAR applications, here are some other numbers of Georgia applicants based on James Spences of Virginia: Spence, James VA 391953, 205662, 449174, 350810 Spense, James VA 482553 Good Hunting! Duke Vickrey

THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS FROM A GENERAL AFFIDAVIT MADE BY AMOS DUBOSE OF NEWTON COUNTY, TEXAS IN THE MATTER OF WINFORD SPENCE APPLICATION FOR PENSION. GENERAL AFFIDAVIT STATE OF TEXAS, COUNTY OF NEWTON IN THE MATTER OF WINFORD SPENCE APPLICATION FOR PENSION. ON THIS 9TH DAY OF MARCH A.D.. 1894 PERSONALLY APPEARED BEFORE ME, (NAME NOT LEGIBLE), IN AND FOR THE AFORESAID COUNTY, DULY AUTHORIZED TO ADMINISTER OATHS, AMOS DUBOSE , AGE 69 YEARS WHOS POST OFFICE ADDRESS IS NEWTON, TX. , WHO BEING DULY SWORN, DECLARED IN RELATION TO SAID CASE AS FOLLOWS: I WAS MUSTERED IN SERVICE OF THE INDIAN WARS IN FLORIDA WITH WINFORD SPENCE, NOW DECEASED, ABOUT MARCH 1841, DISCHARGED SOMETIME IN APRIL 1841, IN CAPT WILLIAM REDEN COMPANY. THE 1ST LEFTENANT WAS WHEELER, I DO NOT RECALL HIS CHRISTIAN NAME. 2ND LEFTENANT MARTIN CHASTAIN, PRIVATE WILIAM BAGGETT, JOHN YEARLY, MORGAN J. TANNER, SEBORN ANDERSON, JOHN ANDERSON, ISAAC R. SPENCE. I WAS NOT PROMOTED BY ANY PRIVATE OR WRITTEN STATEMENT OR RECITAL PREPARED OR DICTATED BY ANY OTHER PERSON. I FURTHER DECLARE THAT I HAVE NO INTEREST IN SAID CASE AND AM NOT CONCERNED IN ITS PROSECUTION. AMOS DUBOSE (SIGNATURE OF AFFIANT) COMMENT: THE STATEMENT MUST HAVE BEEN REQUESTED BY WINFORD SPENCE'S WIDOW TO OBTAIN THE PENSION AS THE STATEMENT SAYS THAT WINFORD SPENCE IS DECEASED. THERE IS NO MENTION OF WHO ASKED FOR THIS AFFIDAVIT OR WHERE THEY LIVED. JIM SPENCE

THE DOCUMENT READS: FARM OR BOUNTY LAND UNDER ACT OF 1855 STATE OF GEORGIA COUNTY-----THOMAS ON THIS TWENTIETH DAY OF MARCH A. D. ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIFTY FIVE PERSONALLY APPEARED BEFORE ME, A JUSTICE OF THE PEACE FOR THE COUNTY AND STATE AFORESAID, ISAAC SPENCE, AGED 78 YEARS, A RESIDENT OF THOMAS COUNTY IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA WO BEING DULY SWORN ACCORDING TO LAW, DECLARES THAT HE IS THE IDENTICAL ISAAC SPENCE WHO RECEIVED, UNDER THE ACT OF 28TH SEPTEMBER, 1850, A LAND WARRANT FOR EIGHTY ACRES FOR SERVICES IN CAPTAIN GAMBOL COMPANY IN THE PORT (THE NEXT LINE IS NOT READABLE). HE MAKES THIS DECLARATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF OBTAINING THE BOUNTY LANDGRANTED BY THE ACT PASSED AND APPROVED MARCH 3RD 1855, AND HE HEREBY DECLARES THAT HE HAS NOT APPLIED FOR, NOR RECEIVED, AND HE BELIEVES HE IS ENTITLED TO, BOUNTY LAND EXCEPT AS ABOVE STATED., AND HE HEREBY APPOINTS JOHN J. RAGANS THOMAS COUNTY TO PROSECUTE HIS CLAIM AND RECEIVE HIS WARRANT WHEN ISSUED. HIS I SAAC (X) SPENCE MARK SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THE DAY AND YEAR ABOVE WRITTEN, AND I CERTIFY THAT I HAVE NO INTEREST IN THE ABOVE CLAIM , AND AM NOT CONCERNED IN ITS PROSECUTION. JOHN J. RAGANS, J. P. STATE OF GEORGIA COUNTY OF THOMAS PERSONALLY APPEARED THARPE SPENCE AND ALEXANDER SINGLETARY , RESIDENTS OF THOMAS COUNTY, PERSONS WHOM I CERTIFY TO BE RESPECTABLE AND ENTITLED TO CREDIT, AND WHO BEING DULY SWORN , SAY THAT THEY WERE PRESENT AND SAW ISAAC SPENCE SIGN HIS NAME TO THE FOREGOING DECLARATION; AND THEY FURTHER SWEAR THAT THEY HAVE EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE FROM THE PPEARANCE OF THE APPLICANT THAT HE IS THE IDENTICAL PERSON HE REPRESENTS HIMSELF TO BE; AND WHO HAS RECEIVED 80 ACRES OF LAND FOR HIS SERVICES IN THE WAR AND THEY DEPONENTS DO RESIDE IN THE COUNTY OF THOMAS IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA . THEY ALSO SWEAR THAT THEY ARE DISINTERESTED WITNESSES. SIGNATURE OF WITNESSES; ALEXANDER SINGLETARY THARPE SPENCE JOHN J. RAGANS, JP SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THIS 20TH DAY OF MARCH 1855.

JUST IN CASE SOMEONE IS RESEARCHING EITHER INSELL OR SOLOMON SPENCE THE FOLLOWING IS A LITTLE INFORMATION I COPIED FROM MICROFICHE AT THE DALLAS LIBRARY. THERE ARE TWO CARDS ON INSELL THAT READ: SPENCE, INSELL NORTH CAROLINA (REVOLUTIONARY WAR) PRIVATE CARD NUMBERS 37185630 BOOK MARK R.P.436786 THE NEXT ONE READS: INSELL SPENCE PVT------------BRADLEY'S CO., NORTH CAROLINA REGIMENT REVOLUTIONARY WAR DATE OF ENLISTMENT----20 JULY 1778 TERM---------9MO. CASUALTIES---------OMITTED OCT. 78 SOLOMON SPENCE PT. ------------------BLOUNT'S CO. NORTH CAROLINA REGIMENT REVOLUTIONARY WAR DATE OF ENLISTMENT-------20 JULY 1778 TERM 9 MO. THE NEXT CARD READS: SPENCE, SOLOMON NORTH CAROLINA REVOLUTIONARY WAR PRIVATE CARD NUMBERS 37185616 BOOK MARK R.P. 436786 SINCE BOTH ENLISTED ON THE SAME DAY I WOULD GUESS THEY MAY HAVE BEEN BROTHERS, CERTAINLY RELATED IN SOME WAY. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE CARD NUMBERS OR THE R.P. NUMBERS MEAN . I ALSO FIND IT INTERESTING THAT THEY BOTH ENLISTED ON THE SAME DAY AND YET WERE PUT INTO TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES. NOTE THAT INSELL ENLISTED FOR NINE MONTHS PUT WAS (OMITTED) IN OCTOBER WHICH WAS ONLY A COUPLE OF MONTHS AFTER HE ENLISTED AND THAT HIS (OMITTED) IS LISTED UNDER CASUALTIES. COULD HE HAVE BEEN WOUNDED AND DISCHARGED? JIM SPENCE

Here's my latest estimate--all hints welcome! > > > Descendants of Issac Spence > > 1 Issac Spence > .+Unknown - Bef. 1839 > ....2 Joshua Spence Abt. 1810, prob. in Emmanuel Co., GA- Abt. 1876 > ........+Amy Levins - Aft. 1876 > ...........3 William Spence 1837 prob in GA- Aft. 1880 > ...............+Emily Laird 1850 - Aft. 1880 > ..................4 Richard S. Spence 1865 prob. in AL- 1949 > ...................... +Mary Keith Abt. 1873 - > .......4 George Washington Spence 1870 in Walton Co. FL - 1957 > ......................+Mattie Louella Creel 1875 - 1976 > ..................4 Ike Spence > .................4 Tharpe Spence 1876 - Aft. 1900 > ...................... +Unknown > ..................4 Martha Spence 1873 - > ...........3 Richard Spence 1839 - Aft. 1864 > ...........3 Joshua Spence II 1839 - Aft. 1866 > ...........3 Issac Spence 1843 - 1921 > ...............+Emily Laird Abt. 1843 - 1869 > ...................4 Insel Spence 1869 - 1958 > ...................... +Bamma Adkinson 1875 - > ..................4 Melviney Spence 1866 - 1910 > ...........*2nd Wife of Issac Spence: > ...............+Carolina Laird 1842 - > ..................4 Silvester Spence 1871 - 1934 > ...................... +Mary Allen 1885 - > ..................4 Martha Spence 1873 - > ...................... +Bullie Adkinson > ..................4 Ammighters Spence 1872 - 1946 > ...................... +WIlliam Benjamin Spencer 1867 - > ..................4 Belzurah Spence 1877 - > ...................... +L. B. Sam Garrett > ..................4 Burlester Spence 1879 - > ...................... +Mattie Parrish > ..................4 Wintford Spence 1879 - > ..................4 Arkie Spence 1881 - > ...................... +E. Jefferson Allen 1875 - > ...........3 Tabitha Spence 1842 - Aft. 1885 > ...........3 Robert Spence Abt. 1844 - Aft. 1920 > ...............+Margaret Adkison > ..................4 Bama Spence Abt. 1873 - > ..................4 Daniel E. Spence > ..................4 Erwin Spence > ......................+Lizzie Anderson > ..................4 Ralph Spence > ..................4 Cora Lee Spence > ...................... +Harry Hall > ..................4 Almond Spence > ...................... +Warren Sconiers 1911 - > ..................4 Fayette Spence > ..................4 Grady Spence > ...........3 Amy Spence 1848 - Aft. 1920 > ............... +Benjamin Langford > ..................4 Olive Langford Abt. 1863 - > ...................... +John Mc Cullough > ..................4 Minerva Langford Abt. 1866 - > ...................... +J. Levin > .................. *2nd Husband of Minerva Langford: > ...................... +Dan'l Teel > ..................4 Tempy Langford 1868 - 1938 > ..................4 Jasper Langford 1870 - > ..................4 Levi Langford Abt. 1872 - > ...................... +Mary Skipper > ..................4 Joshua Langford Abt. 1874 - > ...................... +Lillie Hathaway > ..................4 Amy Langford Abt. 1876 - > ...................... +John Neel > .................4 Lilla Langford Abt. 1878 - > ...................... +Moses Clipper > .................. 4 Ella Langford Abt. 1880 - > .................. 4 Dacia Langford Abt. 1882 - > ...................... +Simon Kennedy > .................. 4 Henry Langford Abt. 1883 - > ...................... +Kizzie Allen > .................. 4 Ada Langford Abt. 1886 - > .................. 4 Thomas Jefferson Langford Abt. 1888 - >

>SMILE for Monday, January 25, 1999 > >Eye halve a spelling chequer >It came with my pea sea. >It plainly marques four my revue >Miss steaks eye kin knot sea. > >Eye strike a key and type a word >And weight four it two say >Weather eye am wrong oar write >It shows me strait a weigh. > >As soon as a mist ache is maid >It nose bee fore two long. >And eye can put the error rite >Its rare lea ever wrong. > >Eye have run this poem threw it, >I am shore your pleased two no, >Its letter perfect awl the weigh, >My chequer tolled me sew. >--------------------------

>SMILE for Monday, January 25, 1999 > >Eye halve a spelling chequer >It came with my pea sea. >It plainly marques four my revue >Miss steaks eye kin knot sea. > >Eye strike a key and type a word >And weight four it two say >Weather eye am wrong oar write >It shows me strait a weigh. > >As soon as a mist ache is maid >It nose bee fore two long. >And eye can put the error rite >Its rare lea ever wrong. > >Eye have run this poem threw it, >I am shore your pleased two no, >Its letter perfect awl the weigh, >My chequer tolled me sew. >--------------------------

Can anyone find out about this that I copied from LDS Records? SPENCE, JANE Berkeley Co VA 10100-10130-10 dated 1810. I wonder if this could our grandmother? Also in 1810 is listed: Spence John Rockbridge Co Va 2201-11210-00 " Greenville Co VA . Tax? 1783, and 40020-410022-05 " Frederick Co VA " Loudon Co VA 20010-20010-00 Ramblings. Luanne Spence Taylor

Can anyone find out about this that I copied from LDS Records? SPENCE, JANE Berkeley Co VA 10100-10130-10 dated 1810. I wonder if this could our grandmother? Also in 1810 is listed: Spence John Rockbridge Co Va 2201-11210-00 " Greenville Co VA . Tax? 1783, and 40020-410022-05 " Frederick Co VA " Loudon Co VA 20010-20010-00 Ramblings. Luanne Spence Taylor