I’m researching a particular gentleman who lived in Baltimore and served with the Rough Riders, 1st US Cavalry in Cuba. Does anybody know where there is an online list of those who served in the affair. The man’s name was Edward Frederick Burke. Thanks. Rod Smith, Wellington, New Zealand.

http://spanamwar.com/rrroster.htm is a roster of the rough riders Original email: ----------------- From: Rod & Glennis Smith glenrod6004@xtra.co.nz Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 16:12:42 +1200 To: SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com Subject: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Rough Riders I’m researching a particular gentleman who lived in Baltimore and served with the Rough Riders, 1st US Cavalry in Cuba. Does anybody know where there is an online list of those who served in the affair. The man’s name was Edward Frederick Burke. Thanks. Rod Smith, Wellington, New Zealand. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web

Hello Charles, A friend in Australia found the Hogan family for me on the census and Jerry has helped me find details of William's service, which is what I was looking for. I haven't managed to find the family in the Ellis Island records or Castle Garden (which I always forget!) but I am not worried about when they left England. They are on the 1881 census here. I have access to the burial register, which does not give any information - just the date of burial. According to a medical friend the cause of death was due to a trauma of some kind (you won't want to know what it says on the death certificate!) and he would have known that he was dying. There dos not seem to have been an inquest, so I don't hold much hope of finding anything more. Another friend is going to look in the Croydon paper when she has an opportunity and I need to check our local paper here in Southend. Thank you very much for your help and interest. Best wishes, Heather Hello Heather - Where did you find the Hogan family living in the 1900 and 1905 census returns? I'm assuming in New York, and possibly the New York City area, based on the 1905 census (probably a NY state census) and the reference to Brooklyn in 1909. If it's New York, I think there is a list (Patrick, or one of the more knowledgeable list members will know for sure), perhaps even on line now, for all of the SAW veterans that served from the state of New York. You might find William Hogan listed there. If you haven't already done so, you should search the Ellis Island online passenger list immigration records for this family. if you don't find them and depending on when they came over, check the Castle Garden records too. While searching, keep in mind that they may have come over via a couple of trips. By this, I mean the father may have come over first, found work and saved some money to send home to bring the rest of his family over to join him. You could narrow your search window by seeing if they are listed in the 1880 US Census or the 1881 UK census. The 1890 US census was lost in a fire but you have the 1891 census in the UK so you definitely have some good tools to work with. Also, have you checked your local civil and church burial registries for a record of William? What about the local newspaper in Croydon or even Southend-on-Sea in Essex to see if there is any mention of William, an obituary perhaps? That might note why he had gone back to England when his family was living in the US. It appears he must have been languishing ill or perhaps suffering from an accidental injury for a while since he made out his will only a day before his death. Anyway, just a few things that may help with your research. Good luck with your search! Charles Marshall Gresham, Oregon USA At 12:00 AM 4/4/2013, span-am-war-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:31:10 +0100 >From: "hl.feather" <hl.feather@yahoo.co.uk> >Subject: [SPAN-AM-WAR] William Joseph Hogan >To: <SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com> > >Good afternoon! I am new to this list and am in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, >England. Hopefully someone reading this will be able to help me. > >We are working on a project in a local burial ground here in Essex and have >found two memorials to William Joseph Hogan. One is a simple round top stone >with few details - his name and the fact that he was in the Spanish American >War. The other shows he died in Croydon, Surrey, UK in January 1909 aged 36. >He is buried with his grandmother. > >Research shows that he was born in Liverpool, UK in about 1873, the son of >William and Maria Hogan. The family went to the U.S.A. and have been found >in the 1900 and 1905 census. His will, written the day before he died, >leaves money to siblings in Brooklyn, New York. His mother was with him in >England. I have not been able to find the family's entry in the U.S.A. or >William and Maria's entry into England. > >I would like to be able, if possible, find out about his military service in >the Spanish American War. > >Many thanks, > >Heather ------------------------------ To contact the SPAN-AM-WAR list administrator, send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SPAN-AM-WAR mailing list, send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SPAN-AM-WAR Digest, Vol 8, Issue 2 ***************************************** ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3161/6224 - Release Date: 04/04/13

Hello Jerry, That is great, thank you. I have found him on the ship's muster and his card in the pension index. This confirms I have the right man as his death certificate says he was a marine engineer. Many thanks. Best wishes, Heather -----Original Message----- From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of span-am-war-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 05 April 2013 08:01 To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Subject: SPAN-AM-WAR Digest, Vol 8, Issue 2 Today's Topics: 1. Re: William Joseph Hogan (Gerald Carbiener) 2. Re: William Joseph Hogan (CW Marshall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 13:56:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerald Carbiener <gacarbiener@aol.com> Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] William Joseph Hogan To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <8CFFF74E9F82664-2154-C589@webmail-m264.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Heather, Your email piqued my interest, so I did some research. Your William Joseph Hogan was indeed in the Spanish American War. I checked the "Civil War Pension Index" and found a record of him. (While titled Civil War Pension Index, this index also includes Span-Am War pensioners.) The index card shows that William enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1898 and was also discharged in 1898. He was the Chief Machinist onboard the SS SAINT PAUL during his tenure in the service. This ship was very active in Cuban and Puerto Rican waters during the short duration of the war. You can find his name on the roster of crew members and quite a lot of detail on the ship and its activities on the Span-Am War website: Spanamwar.com Go to "US Navy" which will open to details of battles, ships (open ST PAUL & ST LOUIS) and dig around. It is a great website. I hope this will help with some of your questions. Regards, Jerry Carbiener Minden, NV -----Original Message----- From: hl.feather <hl.feather@yahoo.co.uk> To: SPAN-AM-WAR <SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 8:56 am Subject: [SPAN-AM-WAR] William Joseph Hogan Good afternoon! I am new to this list and am in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, England. Hopefully someone reading this will be able to help me. We are working on a project in a local burial ground here in Essex and have found two memorials to William Joseph Hogan. One is a simple round top stone with few details - his name and the fact that he was in the Spanish American War. The other shows he died in Croydon, Surrey, UK in January 1909 aged 36. He is buried with his grandmother. Research shows that he was born in Liverpool, UK in about 1873, the son of William and Maria Hogan. The family went to the U.S.A. and have been found in the 1900 and 1905 census. His will, written the day before he died, leaves money to siblings in Brooklyn, New York. His mother was with him in England. I have not been able to find the family's entry in the U.S.A. or William and Maria's entry into England. I would like to be able, if possible, find out about his military service in the Spanish American War. Many thanks, Heather ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 14:24:57 -0700 From: CW Marshall <marshallcw80@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] William Joseph Hogan To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <515defbe.0306440a.3e35.ffffd089@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello Heather - Where did you find the Hogan family living in the 1900 and 1905 census returns? I'm assuming in New York, and possibly the New York City area, based on the 1905 census (probably a NY state census) and the reference to Brooklyn in 1909. If it's New York, I think there is a list (Patrick, or one of the more knowledgeable list members will know for sure), perhaps even on line now, for all of the SAW veterans that served from the state of New York. You might find William Hogan listed there. If you haven't already done so, you should search the Ellis Island online passenger list immigration records for this family. if you don't find them and depending on when they came over, check the Castle Garden records too. While searching, keep in mind that they may have come over via a couple of trips. By this, I mean the father may have come over first, found work and saved some money to send home to bring the rest of his family over to join him. You could narrow your search window by seeing if they are listed in the 1880 US Census or the 1881 UK census. The 1890 US census was lost in a fire but you have the 1891 census in the UK so you definitely have some good tools to work with. Also, have you checked your local civil and church burial registries for a record of William? What about the local newspaper in Croydon or even Southend-on-Sea in Essex to see if there is any mention of William, an obituary perhaps? That might note why he had gone back to England when his family was living in the US. It appears he must have been languishing ill or perhaps suffering from an accidental injury for a while since he made out his will only a day before his death. Anyway, just a few things that may help with your research. Good luck with your search! Charles Marshall Gresham, Oregon USA At 12:00 AM 4/4/2013, span-am-war-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:31:10 +0100 >From: "hl.feather" <hl.feather@yahoo.co.uk> >Subject: [SPAN-AM-WAR] William Joseph Hogan >To: <SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com> > >Good afternoon! I am new to this list and am in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, >England. Hopefully someone reading this will be able to help me. > >We are working on a project in a local burial ground here in Essex and have >found two memorials to William Joseph Hogan. One is a simple round top stone >with few details - his name and the fact that he was in the Spanish American >War. The other shows he died in Croydon, Surrey, UK in January 1909 aged 36. >He is buried with his grandmother. > >Research shows that he was born in Liverpool, UK in about 1873, the son of >William and Maria Hogan. The family went to the U.S.A. and have been found >in the 1900 and 1905 census. His will, written the day before he died, >leaves money to siblings in Brooklyn, New York. His mother was with him in >England. I have not been able to find the family's entry in the U.S.A. or >William and Maria's entry into England. > >I would like to be able, if possible, find out about his military service in >the Spanish American War. > >Many thanks, > >Heather ------------------------------ To contact the SPAN-AM-WAR list administrator, send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SPAN-AM-WAR mailing list, send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SPAN-AM-WAR Digest, Vol 8, Issue 2 ***************************************** ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3161/6224 - Release Date: 04/04/13

Hello Heather - Where did you find the Hogan family living in the 1900 and 1905 census returns? I'm assuming in New York, and possibly the New York City area, based on the 1905 census (probably a NY state census) and the reference to Brooklyn in 1909. If it's New York, I think there is a list (Patrick, or one of the more knowledgeable list members will know for sure), perhaps even on line now, for all of the SAW veterans that served from the state of New York. You might find William Hogan listed there. If you haven't already done so, you should search the Ellis Island online passenger list immigration records for this family. if you don't find them and depending on when they came over, check the Castle Garden records too. While searching, keep in mind that they may have come over via a couple of trips. By this, I mean the father may have come over first, found work and saved some money to send home to bring the rest of his family over to join him. You could narrow your search window by seeing if they are listed in the 1880 US Census or the 1881 UK census. The 1890 US census was lost in a fire but you have the 1891 census in the UK so you definitely have some good tools to work with. Also, have you checked your local civil and church burial registries for a record of William? What about the local newspaper in Croydon or even Southend-on-Sea in Essex to see if there is any mention of William, an obituary perhaps? That might note why he had gone back to England when his family was living in the US. It appears he must have been languishing ill or perhaps suffering from an accidental injury for a while since he made out his will only a day before his death. Anyway, just a few things that may help with your research. Good luck with your search! Charles Marshall Gresham, Oregon USA At 12:00 AM 4/4/2013, span-am-war-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:31:10 +0100 >From: "hl.feather" <hl.feather@yahoo.co.uk> >Subject: [SPAN-AM-WAR] William Joseph Hogan >To: <SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com> > >Good afternoon! I am new to this list and am in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, >England. Hopefully someone reading this will be able to help me. > >We are working on a project in a local burial ground here in Essex and have >found two memorials to William Joseph Hogan. One is a simple round top stone >with few details - his name and the fact that he was in the Spanish American >War. The other shows he died in Croydon, Surrey, UK in January 1909 aged 36. >He is buried with his grandmother. > >Research shows that he was born in Liverpool, UK in about 1873, the son of >William and Maria Hogan. The family went to the U.S.A. and have been found >in the 1900 and 1905 census. His will, written the day before he died, >leaves money to siblings in Brooklyn, New York. His mother was with him in >England. I have not been able to find the family's entry in the U.S.A. or >William and Maria's entry into England. > >I would like to be able, if possible, find out about his military service in >the Spanish American War. > >Many thanks, > >Heather

Hello Heather, Your email piqued my interest, so I did some research. Your William Joseph Hogan was indeed in the Spanish American War. I checked the "Civil War Pension Index" and found a record of him. (While titled Civil War Pension Index, this index also includes Span-Am War pensioners.) The index card shows that William enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1898 and was also discharged in 1898. He was the Chief Machinist onboard the SS SAINT PAUL during his tenure in the service. This ship was very active in Cuban and Puerto Rican waters during the short duration of the war. You can find his name on the roster of crew members and quite a lot of detail on the ship and its activities on the Span-Am War website: Spanamwar.com Go to "US Navy" which will open to details of battles, ships (open ST PAUL & ST LOUIS) and dig around. It is a great website. I hope this will help with some of your questions. Regards, Jerry Carbiener Minden, NV -----Original Message----- From: hl.feather <hl.feather@yahoo.co.uk> To: SPAN-AM-WAR <SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 8:56 am Subject: [SPAN-AM-WAR] William Joseph Hogan Good afternoon! I am new to this list and am in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, England. Hopefully someone reading this will be able to help me. We are working on a project in a local burial ground here in Essex and have found two memorials to William Joseph Hogan. One is a simple round top stone with few details - his name and the fact that he was in the Spanish American War. The other shows he died in Croydon, Surrey, UK in January 1909 aged 36. He is buried with his grandmother. Research shows that he was born in Liverpool, UK in about 1873, the son of William and Maria Hogan. The family went to the U.S.A. and have been found in the 1900 and 1905 census. His will, written the day before he died, leaves money to siblings in Brooklyn, New York. His mother was with him in England. I have not been able to find the family's entry in the U.S.A. or William and Maria's entry into England. I would like to be able, if possible, find out about his military service in the Spanish American War. Many thanks, Heather ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good afternoon! I am new to this list and am in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, England. Hopefully someone reading this will be able to help me. We are working on a project in a local burial ground here in Essex and have found two memorials to William Joseph Hogan. One is a simple round top stone with few details - his name and the fact that he was in the Spanish American War. The other shows he died in Croydon, Surrey, UK in January 1909 aged 36. He is buried with his grandmother. Research shows that he was born in Liverpool, UK in about 1873, the son of William and Maria Hogan. The family went to the U.S.A. and have been found in the 1900 and 1905 census. His will, written the day before he died, leaves money to siblings in Brooklyn, New York. His mother was with him in England. I have not been able to find the family's entry in the U.S.A. or William and Maria's entry into England. I would like to be able, if possible, find out about his military service in the Spanish American War. Many thanks, Heather

I'm impressed with what you are doing. Good luck to you in your research. I'm sure someone will help you. Sent from my iPad On Apr 3, 2013, at 8:31 AM, "hl.feather" <hl.feather@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Good afternoon! I am new to this list and am in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, > England. Hopefully someone reading this will be able to help me. > > > > We are working on a project in a local burial ground here in Essex and have > found two memorials to William Joseph Hogan. One is a simple round top stone > with few details - his name and the fact that he was in the Spanish American > War. The other shows he died in Croydon, Surrey, UK in January 1909 aged 36. > He is buried with his grandmother. > > > > Research shows that he was born in Liverpool, UK in about 1873, the son of > William and Maria Hogan. The family went to the U.S.A. and have been found > in the 1900 and 1905 census. His will, written the day before he died, > leaves money to siblings in Brooklyn, New York. His mother was with him in > England. I have not been able to find the family's entry in the U.S.A. or > William and Maria's entry into England. > > > > I would like to be able, if possible, find out about his military service in > the Spanish American War. > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Heather > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks again Patrick. I appreciate the additional info. Your comments about soldiers serving under aliases is interesting because I've looked a few different times now at the pension index cards, trying various search ideas, etc and am amazed at how many men have notations regarding an alias (some have a couple of them). I've certainly wondered about this in my case. If he did use an alias, I have no idea what it might have been. It certainly was much easier in those days for someone to drop off "the grid" if they didn't want to be found. I have no clue where he was in 1898 either. I wish I knew because I would try to match him up if I could narrow things down to a more focused search like that. I've also considered that this could be a wild, tall tale too, that he didn't really serve but the thing that tends to counter that thought for me is, again, in the early to mid-1930s, there were still a lot of these vets still living. Charles could have easily run into one of them and been tripped up in a lie real quick by another vet that actually did serve in Cuba for example. Considering that he did live in boarding houses, a chance encounter like that could be very likely, living in place where people come and go all the time. I would think a real vet would spot someone pretty quickly that's never even set foot in Cuba (or any of the other places), let alone served in a particular battle campaign. I have verified that he does not have a marker on his grave. Whether or not one was ever ordered is unknown but from what I've seen in his funeral home records, I don't think they were ever able to determine for sure if he was a vet (or at least couldn't pin it down to his exact unit, etc) so that's probably why he didn't get the standard military headstone. The county did pick up part of his burial expenses but they also seized his $50 that he had saved (that's all he had it looks like) and applied that toward helping to defray expenses. I was surprised to find that he was actually buried in a casket in the city cemetery, rather than in a pine box in a potters field. Thanks again for your help. I have actually been trying to crack this mystery for almost 20 years now, off and on as time would allow and as I'd find new leads to pursue (haven't discovered anything new for quite some time now). Without some new clues, I think I've pretty much hit the wall with this search but I guess we'll see what might surface as time goes on. -Charles At 06:15 PM 5/15/2012, you wrote: >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:35:27 -0400 >From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign > Service? >To: <span-am-war@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <E1SUQKh-0000Zn-M5@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Charles, > >You have been working on this issue for about 10 years, haven't you? > >Here are some brief answers to your questions: > >1. Even if someone was denied for a pension, there would be record of his >attempt and all of the forms he filled out would be on file. The criteria >would be that his service in some way contributed to his later disability. >This really did not take much. > >2. A gravestone would have been supplied by the government IF requested and >if there was any verification of his service. It sounds like he may have >been buried as an indigent soldier or at least indigent. This would have >been at government (county) expense. You can check to see if there are >records of this (here we have files of indigent soldier and sailor burials, >which usually shows costs, and may mention his service. It would show if a >gravestone was requested or even paid for - and not received. > >3. Spanish American War vets were lumped with Philippine American War vets >from day one. This is because 1) the first Philippine American War vets WERE >Spanish American War vets also. The Spanish American War ended less than two >months before the Philippine American War began. 2) The Philippine American >War was initially thought of a "mop-up" operation. It was not foreseen (as >is often the case) that the conflict would take on a life of its own. These >reasons are part of the reason why they vets of these two conflicts (and >later the Boxer Rebellion, for less obvious reasons) were forever listed as >one group. The other reason was that a pension fund was created for Spanish >American War vets but not for vets of the other conflicts. Listing them as >Spanish American War vets by definition allowed the vets of the other >conflicts to collect a pension. > >I suspect you are dealing with a soldier who served under an alias. Getting >benefits for such vets was very difficult since they had to be able to prove >that they were same person. The use of an alias was surprisingly common it >seems. They was no way to verify, so if someone wanted to disappear or >simply would not have had the approval of the folks at home to join, they >simply gave themselves a new name. This would explain the great difficulty >in finding evidence of his service. It may also explain the fingerprinting, >etc. Someone may have suspected that there was more to the story. In his >final illness, he may have not been able to communicate any of the data on >his service if he wanted to (i.e. he could have had a stroke for instance). > >You have been at this so long, I am not sure what other stones may be left >to turn over. If you knew where he was in 1898 you could guess at a military >unit and then try to match him up...but if he didn't want anyone to know >then and used an alias. The chance of finding out now is remote. > >Of course...it could also be that he never did serve, but it made a good >story. There are many people who, well after the war, suddenly served with >the "Rough Riders!" > >Patrick McSherry > >-----Original Message----- >From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:26 PM >To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? > >Hi Patrick - > >Thanks for your response and for the clarification on this. It has >been a while since we've chatted hasn't it? As you can see, I'm >still trying to find my illusive great-grandfather, Charles >Marshall. Hopefully persistence will eventually pay off. I actually >had a couple of additional thoughts around this topic. These are: > >1) If a veteran, whether they served overseas or not (as it appears >that didn't matter), applied for a pension, what was the criteria for >them to get approved? What if they applied but were denied...would >there still be a record of this in the archives or with the VA? > >Also, one of the primary clues I'm working with is my >great-grandfather's January 1937 obituary. In that, it refers to him >as a "Spanish War Veteran" in the headline and again more >specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in the actual >obituary (but gives no other details than this). I'm not sure who >supplied this info to the newspaper but more than likely it was his >land-lady (he lived in a boarding house in Merced, CA...it appears >she kind of looked after him, including admitting him to the general >hospital where he died a couple weeks later). Logically, it seems >the only way she could know this was that he must have told her he >served in the war. This lady, Mrs. Doak, was not aware he had a son, >my grandfather, living in Oregon as the obit notes no survivors so he >apparently didn't talk about his family with her. > >The funeral home made an attempt to determine his veteran situation, >but they were unsuccessful. I have a copy of the funeral home >records, including a telegram response from Adjutant General Conley, >Washington, DC ("WUX" if that means anything), referencing Charles as >a "soldier" (could be an assumptive statement but since they didn't >call him a "sailor" it could also be a potential clue). They were >unable to locate his service records without his "organization" >(assumed to mean branch, unit, etc) and his approximate dates of service. > >The funeral home apparently dropped the search efforts after this >because he was finally buried in the local city cemetery (almost 2 >weeks after he died) but has no headstone on his grave. He should >have that if he was confirmed to be a veteran right? I should note >that, for some unknown reason, they went to the extra trouble of >finger-printing him (both hands, all fingers) as well as noting a >detailed physical description of him, including his facial features >(but no postmortem pictures). Could this have been for ID comparison >to his military records, if they could find them? The funeral home >couldn't really tell me why they would have done that either. > >Anyway, getting back to the core of my second thought/question. In >1937, there were quite a few SAW, as well as PW, vets still >living. Were they already all being lumped together, being called >"Spanish American War" vets in 1937 or did that come along years >later after more time had gone by? Who did this, created this >collective confusion...the VA? My question is: > >2) Regarding him being noted specifically as a "Spanish American War >veteran" in his obituary. I'm wondering if this might be a fairly >reliable clue, i.e., that he did indeed serve in the SAW and wasn't >likely only in the Philippine War that followed (where you would >think they would have called him a "Philippines veteran"). > >My first confirmed sighting of him is in eastern Washington in >November 1900 so he was out of the service by then. This is when he >filed his initial homestead claim papers with the Walla Walla land >office for farm land. > >At this point, any clues, no matter how small, could be helpful in >narrowing down the scope of the search. Thanks Patrick. > >-Charles Marshall >

Patrick, Thanks so much for your email! I was lucky enough to get my great grandfather's pension record (all 191 pages) and it helped me tremendously. I found out that he was a liar and a cheat. You brought up many excellent points! Thanks ever so much for your email! Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: Patrick McSherry <pmm@redrose.net> To: span-am-war <span-am-war@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, May 15, 2012 7:40 pm Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? Charles, You have been working on this issue for about 10 years, haven't you? Here are some brief answers to your questions: 1. Even if someone was denied for a pension, there would be record of his ttempt and all of the forms he filled out would be on file. The criteria ould be that his service in some way contributed to his later disability. his really did not take much. 2. A gravestone would have been supplied by the government IF requested and f there was any verification of his service. It sounds like he may have een buried as an indigent soldier or at least indigent. This would have een at government (county) expense. You can check to see if there are ecords of this (here we have files of indigent soldier and sailor burials, hich usually shows costs, and may mention his service. It would show if a ravestone was requested or even paid for - and not received. 3. Spanish American War vets were lumped with Philippine American War vets rom day one. This is because 1) the first Philippine American War vets WERE panish American War vets also. The Spanish American War ended less than two onths before the Philippine American War began. 2) The Philippine American ar was initially thought of a "mop-up" operation. It was not foreseen (as s often the case) that the conflict would take on a life of its own. These easons are part of the reason why they vets of these two conflicts (and ater the Boxer Rebellion, for less obvious reasons) were forever listed as ne group. The other reason was that a pension fund was created for Spanish merican War vets but not for vets of the other conflicts. Listing them as panish American War vets by definition allowed the vets of the other onflicts to collect a pension. I suspect you are dealing with a soldier who served under an alias. Getting enefits for such vets was very difficult since they had to be able to prove hat they were same person. The use of an alias was surprisingly common it eems. They was no way to verify, so if someone wanted to disappear or imply would not have had the approval of the folks at home to join, they imply gave themselves a new name. This would explain the great difficulty n finding evidence of his service. It may also explain the fingerprinting, tc. Someone may have suspected that there was more to the story. In his inal illness, he may have not been able to communicate any of the data on is service if he wanted to (i.e. he could have had a stroke for instance). You have been at this so long, I am not sure what other stones may be left o turn over. If you knew where he was in 1898 you could guess at a military nit and then try to match him up...but if he didn't want anyone to know hen and used an alias. The chance of finding out now is remote. Of course...it could also be that he never did serve, but it made a good tory. There are many people who, well after the war, suddenly served with he "Rough Riders!" Patrick McSherry -----Original Message----- rom: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall ent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:26 PM o: span-am-war@rootsweb.com ubject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? Hi Patrick - Thanks for your response and for the clarification on this. It has een a while since we've chatted hasn't it? As you can see, I'm till trying to find my illusive great-grandfather, Charles arshall. Hopefully persistence will eventually pay off. I actually ad a couple of additional thoughts around this topic. These are: 1) If a veteran, whether they served overseas or not (as it appears hat didn't matter), applied for a pension, what was the criteria for hem to get approved? What if they applied but were denied...would here still be a record of this in the archives or with the VA? Also, one of the primary clues I'm working with is my reat-grandfather's January 1937 obituary. In that, it refers to him s a "Spanish War Veteran" in the headline and again more pecifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in the actual bituary (but gives no other details than this). I'm not sure who upplied this info to the newspaper but more than likely it was his and-lady (he lived in a boarding house in Merced, CA...it appears he kind of looked after him, including admitting him to the general ospital where he died a couple weeks later). Logically, it seems he only way she could know this was that he must have told her he erved in the war. This lady, Mrs. Doak, was not aware he had a son, y grandfather, living in Oregon as the obit notes no survivors so he pparently didn't talk about his family with her. The funeral home made an attempt to determine his veteran situation, ut they were unsuccessful. I have a copy of the funeral home ecords, including a telegram response from Adjutant General Conley, ashington, DC ("WUX" if that means anything), referencing Charles as "soldier" (could be an assumptive statement but since they didn't all him a "sailor" it could also be a potential clue). They were nable to locate his service records without his "organization" assumed to mean branch, unit, etc) and his approximate dates of service. The funeral home apparently dropped the search efforts after this ecause he was finally buried in the local city cemetery (almost 2 eeks after he died) but has no headstone on his grave. He should ave that if he was confirmed to be a veteran right? I should note hat, for some unknown reason, they went to the extra trouble of inger-printing him (both hands, all fingers) as well as noting a etailed physical description of him, including his facial features but no postmortem pictures). Could this have been for ID comparison o his military records, if they could find them? The funeral home ouldn't really tell me why they would have done that either. Anyway, getting back to the core of my second thought/question. In 937, there were quite a few SAW, as well as PW, vets still iving. Were they already all being lumped together, being called Spanish American War" vets in 1937 or did that come along years ater after more time had gone by? Who did this, created this ollective confusion...the VA? My question is: 2) Regarding him being noted specifically as a "Spanish American War eteran" in his obituary. I'm wondering if this might be a fairly eliable clue, i.e., that he did indeed serve in the SAW and wasn't ikely only in the Philippine War that followed (where you would hink they would have called him a "Philippines veteran"). My first confirmed sighting of him is in eastern Washington in ovember 1900 so he was out of the service by then. This is when he iled his initial homestead claim papers with the Walla Walla land ffice for farm land. At this point, any clues, no matter how small, could be helpful in arrowing down the scope of the search. Thanks Patrick. -Charles Marshall t 12:00 AM 5/1/2012, you wrote: Message: 2 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:07:45 -0400 From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? (Patrick McSherry) To: <span-am-war@rootsweb.com> Charles, Good to hear from you again. The answers are actually quite straight forward. If your relative enlisted or served in the military between April and December 10, 1898, he is a veteran of the Spanish American War. He did not need to serve overseas (comparatively few did) or see combat. He was entitled to a pension even if he defended the coast of New Jersey... Remember, the deadliest place to serve was probably in a training camp in the U.S. as that is, by far, where most of the deaths occurred (also, keep in mind that someone could have served at Fort Dix, New Jersey during WWII, and he or she would still be considered a veteran of WWII). Any veteran was entitled to apply for a pension. He didn't need to go overseas. Veterans of the Philippine American War and the Boxer Rebellion are listed in all government documents, including government-issued gravestones as "Spanish American War veterans." The reason is beyond the scope of this brief answer, but basically, there was a fund set up for Spanish American War vets, and not for the other conflicts, and also, initially, there was a misconception that the Philippine American War was going to be a brief mop-up affair, and lastly, there was spill-over in the troops serving the Philippines between the two conflicts. Is there a comprehensive list of Spanish American War vets? No. This was made muckier by the fact that Philippine American War and Boxer Rebellion vets are listed in the records as Spanish American War vets. Patrick McSherry -----Original Message----- From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:20 PM To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? (Patrick McSherry) Patrick, This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going search for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service records. If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or state), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle zones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still considered veterans of the SAW? What about the Philippines War that followed? Taking this another level, if they never actually served in combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live in old soldiers homes when they got older? If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by unit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they actually shipped out and served in battle? Just to clarify and so we don't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of the service, not just the Army. Thanks Patrick. -Charles LEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message LEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Charles, You have been working on this issue for about 10 years, haven't you? Here are some brief answers to your questions: 1. Even if someone was denied for a pension, there would be record of his attempt and all of the forms he filled out would be on file. The criteria would be that his service in some way contributed to his later disability. This really did not take much. 2. A gravestone would have been supplied by the government IF requested and if there was any verification of his service. It sounds like he may have been buried as an indigent soldier or at least indigent. This would have been at government (county) expense. You can check to see if there are records of this (here we have files of indigent soldier and sailor burials, which usually shows costs, and may mention his service. It would show if a gravestone was requested or even paid for - and not received. 3. Spanish American War vets were lumped with Philippine American War vets from day one. This is because 1) the first Philippine American War vets WERE Spanish American War vets also. The Spanish American War ended less than two months before the Philippine American War began. 2) The Philippine American War was initially thought of a "mop-up" operation. It was not foreseen (as is often the case) that the conflict would take on a life of its own. These reasons are part of the reason why they vets of these two conflicts (and later the Boxer Rebellion, for less obvious reasons) were forever listed as one group. The other reason was that a pension fund was created for Spanish American War vets but not for vets of the other conflicts. Listing them as Spanish American War vets by definition allowed the vets of the other conflicts to collect a pension. I suspect you are dealing with a soldier who served under an alias. Getting benefits for such vets was very difficult since they had to be able to prove that they were same person. The use of an alias was surprisingly common it seems. They was no way to verify, so if someone wanted to disappear or simply would not have had the approval of the folks at home to join, they simply gave themselves a new name. This would explain the great difficulty in finding evidence of his service. It may also explain the fingerprinting, etc. Someone may have suspected that there was more to the story. In his final illness, he may have not been able to communicate any of the data on his service if he wanted to (i.e. he could have had a stroke for instance). You have been at this so long, I am not sure what other stones may be left to turn over. If you knew where he was in 1898 you could guess at a military unit and then try to match him up...but if he didn't want anyone to know then and used an alias. The chance of finding out now is remote. Of course...it could also be that he never did serve, but it made a good story. There are many people who, well after the war, suddenly served with the "Rough Riders!" Patrick McSherry -----Original Message----- From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:26 PM To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? Hi Patrick - Thanks for your response and for the clarification on this. It has been a while since we've chatted hasn't it? As you can see, I'm still trying to find my illusive great-grandfather, Charles Marshall. Hopefully persistence will eventually pay off. I actually had a couple of additional thoughts around this topic. These are: 1) If a veteran, whether they served overseas or not (as it appears that didn't matter), applied for a pension, what was the criteria for them to get approved? What if they applied but were denied...would there still be a record of this in the archives or with the VA? Also, one of the primary clues I'm working with is my great-grandfather's January 1937 obituary. In that, it refers to him as a "Spanish War Veteran" in the headline and again more specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in the actual obituary (but gives no other details than this). I'm not sure who supplied this info to the newspaper but more than likely it was his land-lady (he lived in a boarding house in Merced, CA...it appears she kind of looked after him, including admitting him to the general hospital where he died a couple weeks later). Logically, it seems the only way she could know this was that he must have told her he served in the war. This lady, Mrs. Doak, was not aware he had a son, my grandfather, living in Oregon as the obit notes no survivors so he apparently didn't talk about his family with her. The funeral home made an attempt to determine his veteran situation, but they were unsuccessful. I have a copy of the funeral home records, including a telegram response from Adjutant General Conley, Washington, DC ("WUX" if that means anything), referencing Charles as a "soldier" (could be an assumptive statement but since they didn't call him a "sailor" it could also be a potential clue). They were unable to locate his service records without his "organization" (assumed to mean branch, unit, etc) and his approximate dates of service. The funeral home apparently dropped the search efforts after this because he was finally buried in the local city cemetery (almost 2 weeks after he died) but has no headstone on his grave. He should have that if he was confirmed to be a veteran right? I should note that, for some unknown reason, they went to the extra trouble of finger-printing him (both hands, all fingers) as well as noting a detailed physical description of him, including his facial features (but no postmortem pictures). Could this have been for ID comparison to his military records, if they could find them? The funeral home couldn't really tell me why they would have done that either. Anyway, getting back to the core of my second thought/question. In 1937, there were quite a few SAW, as well as PW, vets still living. Were they already all being lumped together, being called "Spanish American War" vets in 1937 or did that come along years later after more time had gone by? Who did this, created this collective confusion...the VA? My question is: 2) Regarding him being noted specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in his obituary. I'm wondering if this might be a fairly reliable clue, i.e., that he did indeed serve in the SAW and wasn't likely only in the Philippine War that followed (where you would think they would have called him a "Philippines veteran"). My first confirmed sighting of him is in eastern Washington in November 1900 so he was out of the service by then. This is when he filed his initial homestead claim papers with the Walla Walla land office for farm land. At this point, any clues, no matter how small, could be helpful in narrowing down the scope of the search. Thanks Patrick. -Charles Marshall At 12:00 AM 5/1/2012, you wrote: >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:07:45 -0400 >From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign > Service? (Patrick McSherry) >To: <span-am-war@rootsweb.com> > > >Charles, > >Good to hear from you again. > >The answers are actually quite straight forward. If your relative enlisted >or served in the military between April and December 10, 1898, he is a >veteran of the Spanish American War. He did not need to serve overseas >(comparatively few did) or see combat. He was entitled to a pension even if >he defended the coast of New Jersey... Remember, the deadliest place to >serve was probably in a training camp in the U.S. as that is, by far, where >most of the deaths occurred (also, keep in mind that someone could have >served at Fort Dix, New Jersey during WWII, and he or she would still be >considered a veteran of WWII). > >Any veteran was entitled to apply for a pension. He didn't need to go >overseas. > >Veterans of the Philippine American War and the Boxer Rebellion are listed >in all government documents, including government-issued gravestones as >"Spanish American War veterans." The reason is beyond the scope of this >brief answer, but basically, there was a fund set up for Spanish American >War vets, and not for the other conflicts, and also, initially, there was a >misconception that the Philippine American War was going to be a brief >mop-up affair, and lastly, there was spill-over in the troops serving the >Philippines between the two conflicts. > >Is there a comprehensive list of Spanish American War vets? No. This was >made muckier by the fact that Philippine American War and Boxer Rebellion >vets are listed in the records as Spanish American War vets. > >Patrick McSherry > > >-----Original Message----- >From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall >Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:20 PM >To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? >(Patrick McSherry) > >Patrick, > >This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going >search for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service >records. If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or >state), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle >zones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still >considered veterans of the SAW? What about the Philippines War that >followed? Taking this another level, if they never actually served >in combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live >in old soldiers homes when they got older? > >If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by >unit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they >actually shipped out and served in battle? Just to clarify and so we >don't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of >the service, not just the Army. Thanks Patrick. > >-Charles > PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I wrote this email two weeks ago and every time I see it, I think it is addresses to me. Please change the title of this email before replying to an off-topic subject.   Thank you   Dave ________________________________ From: Patrick McSherry <pmm@redrose.net> To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? Charles, You have been working on this issue for about 10 years, haven't you? Here are some brief answers to your questions: 1. Even if someone was denied for a pension, there would be record of his attempt and all of the forms he filled out would be on file. The criteria would be that his service in some way contributed to his later disability. This really did not take much. 2. A gravestone would have been supplied by the government IF requested and if there was any verification of his service. It sounds like he may have been buried as an indigent soldier or at least indigent. This would have been at government (county) expense. You can check to see if there are records of this (here we have files of indigent soldier and sailor burials, which usually shows costs, and may mention his service. It would show if a gravestone was requested or even paid for - and not received. 3. Spanish American War vets were lumped with Philippine American War vets from day one. This is because 1) the first Philippine American War vets WERE Spanish American War vets also. The Spanish American War ended less than two months before the Philippine American War began. 2) The Philippine American War was initially thought of a "mop-up" operation. It was not foreseen (as is often the case) that the conflict would take on a life of its own. These reasons are part of the reason why they vets of these two conflicts (and later the Boxer Rebellion, for less obvious reasons) were forever listed as one group. The other reason was that a pension fund was created for Spanish American War vets but not for vets of the other conflicts. Listing them as Spanish American War vets by definition allowed the vets of the other conflicts to collect a pension. I suspect you are dealing with a soldier who served under an alias. Getting benefits for such vets was very difficult since they had to be able to prove that they were same person. The use of an alias was surprisingly common it seems. They was no way to verify, so if someone wanted to disappear or simply would not have had the approval of the folks at home to join, they simply gave themselves a new name. This would explain the great difficulty in finding evidence of his service. It may also explain the fingerprinting, etc. Someone may have suspected that there was more to the story. In his final illness, he may have not been able to communicate any of the data on his service if he wanted to (i.e. he could have had a stroke for instance). You have been at this so long, I am not sure what other stones may be left to turn over. If you knew where he was in 1898 you could guess at a military unit and then try to match him up...but if he didn't want anyone to know then and used an alias. The chance of finding out now is remote. Of course...it could also be that he never did serve, but it made a good story. There are many people who, well after the war, suddenly served with the "Rough Riders!" Patrick McSherry -----Original Message----- From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:26 PM To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? Hi Patrick - Thanks for your response and for the clarification on this.  It has been a while since we've chatted hasn't it?  As you can see, I'm still trying to find my illusive great-grandfather, Charles Marshall.  Hopefully persistence will eventually pay off.  I actually had a couple of additional thoughts around this topic.  These are: 1) If a veteran, whether they served overseas or not (as it appears that didn't matter), applied for a pension, what was the criteria for them to get approved?  What if they applied but were denied...would there still be a record of this in the archives or with the VA? Also, one of the primary clues I'm working with is my great-grandfather's January 1937 obituary.  In that, it refers to him as a "Spanish War Veteran" in the headline and again more specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in the actual obituary (but gives no other details than this).  I'm not sure who supplied this info to the newspaper but more than likely it was his land-lady (he lived in a boarding house in Merced, CA...it appears she kind of looked after him, including admitting him to the general hospital where he died a couple weeks later).  Logically, it seems the only way she could know this was that he must have told her he served in the war.  This lady, Mrs. Doak, was not aware he had a son, my grandfather, living in Oregon as the obit notes no survivors so he apparently didn't talk about his family with her. The funeral home made an attempt to determine his veteran situation, but they were unsuccessful.  I have a copy of the funeral home records, including a telegram response from Adjutant General Conley, Washington, DC ("WUX" if that means anything), referencing Charles as a "soldier" (could be an assumptive statement but since they didn't call him a "sailor" it could also be a potential clue).  They were unable to locate his service records without his "organization" (assumed to mean branch, unit, etc) and his approximate dates of service. The funeral home apparently dropped the search efforts after this because he was finally buried in the local city cemetery (almost 2 weeks after he died) but has no headstone on his grave.  He should have that if he was confirmed to be a veteran right?  I should note that, for some unknown reason, they went to the extra trouble of finger-printing him (both hands, all fingers) as well as noting a detailed physical description of him, including his facial features (but no postmortem pictures).  Could this have been for ID comparison to his military records, if they could find them?  The funeral home couldn't really tell me why they would have done that either. Anyway, getting back to the core of my second thought/question.  In 1937, there were quite a few SAW, as well as PW, vets still living.  Were they already all being lumped together, being called "Spanish American War" vets in 1937 or did that come along years later after more time had gone by?  Who did this, created this collective confusion...the VA?  My question is: 2) Regarding him being noted specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in his obituary.  I'm wondering if this might be a fairly reliable clue, i.e., that he did indeed serve in the SAW and wasn't likely only in the Philippine War that followed (where you would think they would have called him a "Philippines veteran"). My first confirmed sighting of him is in eastern Washington in November 1900 so he was out of the service by then.  This is when he filed his initial homestead claim papers with the Walla Walla land office for farm land. At this point, any clues, no matter how small, could be helpful in narrowing down the scope of the search.  Thanks Patrick. -Charles Marshall At 12:00 AM 5/1/2012, you wrote: >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:07:45 -0400 >From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign >        Service?        (Patrick McSherry) >To: <span-am-war@rootsweb.com> > > >Charles, > >Good to hear from you again. > >The answers are actually quite straight forward. If your relative enlisted >or served in the military between April and December 10, 1898, he is a >veteran of the Spanish American War. He did not need to serve overseas >(comparatively few did) or see combat. He was entitled to a pension even if >he defended the coast of New Jersey... Remember, the deadliest place to >serve was probably in a training camp in the U.S. as that is, by far, where >most of the deaths occurred (also, keep in mind that someone could have >served at Fort Dix, New Jersey during WWII, and he or she would still be >considered a veteran of WWII). > >Any veteran was entitled to apply for a pension. He didn't need to go >overseas. > >Veterans of the Philippine American War and the Boxer Rebellion are listed >in all government documents, including government-issued gravestones as >"Spanish American War veterans." The reason is beyond the scope of this >brief answer, but basically, there was a fund set up for Spanish American >War vets, and not for the other conflicts, and also, initially, there was a >misconception that the Philippine American War was going to be a brief >mop-up affair, and lastly, there was spill-over in the troops serving the >Philippines between the two conflicts. > >Is there a comprehensive list of Spanish American War vets? No. This was >made muckier by the fact that Philippine American War and Boxer Rebellion >vets are listed in the records as Spanish American War vets. > >Patrick McSherry > > >-----Original Message----- >From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall >Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:20 PM >To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? >(Patrick McSherry) > >Patrick, > >This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going >search for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service >records.  If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or >state), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle >zones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still >considered veterans of the SAW?  What about the Philippines War that >followed?  Taking this another level, if they never actually served >in combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live >in old soldiers homes when they got older? > >If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by >unit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they >actually shipped out and served in battle?  Just to clarify and so we >don't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of >the service, not just the Army.  Thanks Patrick. > >-Charles > PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Georgia - I've only found him for sure in the census for 1910 (in Washington) and 1920 (in Oregon)...no clues in either of those. I may have found him in the 1930 census (if he was enumerated at all) but I can't be sure it's him. It it is him, the age is close but place of birth is wrong and this particular person doesn't have anything noted about military service either. My Great-grandmother died in 1921 in Oregon so after about 1922-23, Charles left his two kids with relatives or guardians and is traveling all over California, working as either a traveling salesman or as a foreman, all having to do with rural agriculture business (farming and orchards) in almost all cases. As far as I know, Charles never remarried (or if he did, I haven't found any record of that yet). He was noted as a widower on his death certificate. The guy I found in the 1930 census was single and working in agriculture in southern Arizona, just on the other side of the California border in the big farming area fed via irrigation from the Colorado River. I tried to pursue more information locally on him there but I suspect he was one of many farm workers that came and went from those areas, migrating based on work, pay and other available, perhaps better, opportunities. From what I can tell, he showed up in Merced, CA around 1933-34 but why Merced I have no idea (no relatives there as far as I can tell). He lived in Merced in Mrs. Georgia Doak's boarding house for the rest of his life until his death in 1937. -Charles At 12:01 AM 5/14/2012, you wrote: >Message: 2 >Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 16:54:31 -0600 >From: georgia1943@thanever.com >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign > Service? >To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: > <e1dedf1eee27cc74cf2a3a8017c92a96.squirrel@www.thanever.com> >Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >Dear Charles, > >What does the 1930 census say about his status as a veteran? Of course, >if the information was given by another family member or a neighbor, that >might not help either. > >Georgia >

Dear Charles, What does the 1930 census say about his status as a veteran? Of course, if the information was given by another family member or a neighbor, that might not help either. Georgia Hi Patrick - > > Thanks for your response and for the clarification on this. It has > been a while since we've chatted hasn't it? As you can see, I'm > still trying to find my illusive great-grandfather, Charles > Marshall. Hopefully persistence will eventually pay off. I actually > had a couple of additional thoughts around this topic. These are: > > 1) If a veteran, whether they served overseas or not (as it appears > that didn't matter), applied for a pension, what was the criteria for > them to get approved? What if they applied but were denied...would > there still be a record of this in the archives or with the VA? > > Also, one of the primary clues I'm working with is my > great-grandfather's January 1937 obituary. In that, it refers to him > as a "Spanish War Veteran" in the headline and again more > specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in the actual > obituary (but gives no other details than this). I'm not sure who > supplied this info to the newspaper but more than likely it was his > land-lady (he lived in a boarding house in Merced, CA...it appears > she kind of looked after him, including admitting him to the general > hospital where he died a couple weeks later). Logically, it seems > the only way she could know this was that he must have told her he > served in the war. This lady, Mrs. Doak, was not aware he had a son, > my grandfather, living in Oregon as the obit notes no survivors so he > apparently didn't talk about his family with her. > > The funeral home made an attempt to determine his veteran situation, > but they were unsuccessful. I have a copy of the funeral home > records, including a telegram response from Adjutant General Conley, > Washington, DC ("WUX" if that means anything), referencing Charles as > a "soldier" (could be an assumptive statement but since they didn't > call him a "sailor" it could also be a potential clue). They were > unable to locate his service records without his "organization" > (assumed to mean branch, unit, etc) and his approximate dates of service. > > The funeral home apparently dropped the search efforts after this > because he was finally buried in the local city cemetery (almost 2 > weeks after he died) but has no headstone on his grave. He should > have that if he was confirmed to be a veteran right? I should note > that, for some unknown reason, they went to the extra trouble of > finger-printing him (both hands, all fingers) as well as noting a > detailed physical description of him, including his facial features > (but no postmortem pictures). Could this have been for ID comparison > to his military records, if they could find them? The funeral home > couldn't really tell me why they would have done that either. > > Anyway, getting back to the core of my second thought/question. In > 1937, there were quite a few SAW, as well as PW, vets still > living. Were they already all being lumped together, being called > "Spanish American War" vets in 1937 or did that come along years > later after more time had gone by? Who did this, created this > collective confusion...the VA? My question is: > > 2) Regarding him being noted specifically as a "Spanish American War > veteran" in his obituary. I'm wondering if this might be a fairly > reliable clue, i.e., that he did indeed serve in the SAW and wasn't > likely only in the Philippine War that followed (where you would > think they would have called him a "Philippines veteran"). > > My first confirmed sighting of him is in eastern Washington in > November 1900 so he was out of the service by then. This is when he > filed his initial homestead claim papers with the Walla Walla land > office for farm land. > > At this point, any clues, no matter how small, could be helpful in > narrowing down the scope of the search. Thanks Patrick. > > -Charles Marshall > > > At 12:00 AM 5/1/2012, you wrote: >>Message: 2 >>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:07:45 -0400 >>From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> >>Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign >> Service? (Patrick McSherry) >>To: <span-am-war@rootsweb.com> >> >> >>Charles, >> >>Good to hear from you again. >> >>The answers are actually quite straight forward. If your relative >> enlisted >>or served in the military between April and December 10, 1898, he is a >>veteran of the Spanish American War. He did not need to serve overseas >>(comparatively few did) or see combat. He was entitled to a pension even >> if >>he defended the coast of New Jersey... Remember, the deadliest place to >>serve was probably in a training camp in the U.S. as that is, by far, >> where >>most of the deaths occurred (also, keep in mind that someone could have >>served at Fort Dix, New Jersey during WWII, and he or she would still be >>considered a veteran of WWII). >> >>Any veteran was entitled to apply for a pension. He didn't need to go >>overseas. >> >>Veterans of the Philippine American War and the Boxer Rebellion are >> listed >>in all government documents, including government-issued gravestones as >>"Spanish American War veterans." The reason is beyond the scope of this >>brief answer, but basically, there was a fund set up for Spanish American >>War vets, and not for the other conflicts, and also, initially, there was >> a >>misconception that the Philippine American War was going to be a brief >>mop-up affair, and lastly, there was spill-over in the troops serving the >>Philippines between the two conflicts. >> >>Is there a comprehensive list of Spanish American War vets? No. This was >>made muckier by the fact that Philippine American War and Boxer Rebellion >>vets are listed in the records as Spanish American War vets. >> >>Patrick McSherry >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com >>[mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall >>Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:20 PM >>To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? >>(Patrick McSherry) >> >>Patrick, >> >>This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going >>search for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service >>records. If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or >>state), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle >>zones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still >>considered veterans of the SAW? What about the Philippines War that >>followed? Taking this another level, if they never actually served >>in combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live >>in old soldiers homes when they got older? >> >>If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by >>unit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they >>actually shipped out and served in battle? Just to clarify and so we >>don't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of >>the service, not just the Army. Thanks Patrick. >> >>-Charles >> > > > PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Patrick - Thanks for your response and for the clarification on this. It has been a while since we've chatted hasn't it? As you can see, I'm still trying to find my illusive great-grandfather, Charles Marshall. Hopefully persistence will eventually pay off. I actually had a couple of additional thoughts around this topic. These are: 1) If a veteran, whether they served overseas or not (as it appears that didn't matter), applied for a pension, what was the criteria for them to get approved? What if they applied but were denied...would there still be a record of this in the archives or with the VA? Also, one of the primary clues I'm working with is my great-grandfather's January 1937 obituary. In that, it refers to him as a "Spanish War Veteran" in the headline and again more specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in the actual obituary (but gives no other details than this). I'm not sure who supplied this info to the newspaper but more than likely it was his land-lady (he lived in a boarding house in Merced, CA...it appears she kind of looked after him, including admitting him to the general hospital where he died a couple weeks later). Logically, it seems the only way she could know this was that he must have told her he served in the war. This lady, Mrs. Doak, was not aware he had a son, my grandfather, living in Oregon as the obit notes no survivors so he apparently didn't talk about his family with her. The funeral home made an attempt to determine his veteran situation, but they were unsuccessful. I have a copy of the funeral home records, including a telegram response from Adjutant General Conley, Washington, DC ("WUX" if that means anything), referencing Charles as a "soldier" (could be an assumptive statement but since they didn't call him a "sailor" it could also be a potential clue). They were unable to locate his service records without his "organization" (assumed to mean branch, unit, etc) and his approximate dates of service. The funeral home apparently dropped the search efforts after this because he was finally buried in the local city cemetery (almost 2 weeks after he died) but has no headstone on his grave. He should have that if he was confirmed to be a veteran right? I should note that, for some unknown reason, they went to the extra trouble of finger-printing him (both hands, all fingers) as well as noting a detailed physical description of him, including his facial features (but no postmortem pictures). Could this have been for ID comparison to his military records, if they could find them? The funeral home couldn't really tell me why they would have done that either. Anyway, getting back to the core of my second thought/question. In 1937, there were quite a few SAW, as well as PW, vets still living. Were they already all being lumped together, being called "Spanish American War" vets in 1937 or did that come along years later after more time had gone by? Who did this, created this collective confusion...the VA? My question is: 2) Regarding him being noted specifically as a "Spanish American War veteran" in his obituary. I'm wondering if this might be a fairly reliable clue, i.e., that he did indeed serve in the SAW and wasn't likely only in the Philippine War that followed (where you would think they would have called him a "Philippines veteran"). My first confirmed sighting of him is in eastern Washington in November 1900 so he was out of the service by then. This is when he filed his initial homestead claim papers with the Walla Walla land office for farm land. At this point, any clues, no matter how small, could be helpful in narrowing down the scope of the search. Thanks Patrick. -Charles Marshall At 12:00 AM 5/1/2012, you wrote: >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:07:45 -0400 >From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign > Service? (Patrick McSherry) >To: <span-am-war@rootsweb.com> > > >Charles, > >Good to hear from you again. > >The answers are actually quite straight forward. If your relative enlisted >or served in the military between April and December 10, 1898, he is a >veteran of the Spanish American War. He did not need to serve overseas >(comparatively few did) or see combat. He was entitled to a pension even if >he defended the coast of New Jersey... Remember, the deadliest place to >serve was probably in a training camp in the U.S. as that is, by far, where >most of the deaths occurred (also, keep in mind that someone could have >served at Fort Dix, New Jersey during WWII, and he or she would still be >considered a veteran of WWII). > >Any veteran was entitled to apply for a pension. He didn't need to go >overseas. > >Veterans of the Philippine American War and the Boxer Rebellion are listed >in all government documents, including government-issued gravestones as >"Spanish American War veterans." The reason is beyond the scope of this >brief answer, but basically, there was a fund set up for Spanish American >War vets, and not for the other conflicts, and also, initially, there was a >misconception that the Philippine American War was going to be a brief >mop-up affair, and lastly, there was spill-over in the troops serving the >Philippines between the two conflicts. > >Is there a comprehensive list of Spanish American War vets? No. This was >made muckier by the fact that Philippine American War and Boxer Rebellion >vets are listed in the records as Spanish American War vets. > >Patrick McSherry > > >-----Original Message----- >From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall >Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:20 PM >To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? >(Patrick McSherry) > >Patrick, > >This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going >search for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service >records. If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or >state), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle >zones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still >considered veterans of the SAW? What about the Philippines War that >followed? Taking this another level, if they never actually served >in combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live >in old soldiers homes when they got older? > >If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by >unit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they >actually shipped out and served in battle? Just to clarify and so we >don't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of >the service, not just the Army. Thanks Patrick. > >-Charles >

I just went to the NARA website to order the Spanish-American War pension file for my 2G Grandfather (here: https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonline/start.swe?SWECmd=Start&SWEHo=eservices.archives.gov) and after filling out the form for the complete military record and pension request file, the $75 file, it told me I needed to go to a VA site ( http://www.foia.va.gov/) and enter my request here. Before going through the trouble to do this I thought I should check with someone else first! I've been reading about how long this can take and I really don't want to waste 6 months ordered something I don't need or want. My 2G Grandfather definitely served, here is his index card for service: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-24238-24119-85?cc=1919699&wc=13293080 . His daughter, my great-grandmother, always believed he died in the very early 1900s of yellow fever (or some other tropic fever) while working on the Panama Canal. We now believe this to be a complete lie as one of my cousins found papers from the Brazilian American Consulate office on Ancestry from the very late 1930s describing how her father virtually renounced his US citizenship by moving to Brazil and showing no interest in returning to the US. He was naturalized from Germany so presumably had no strong bond to the US. I believe his pension papers, which are mentioned in the American Consulate paperwork, may offer some clues to what him and hopefully will tell us where he was actually from in Germany. We're completely blind on his ancestry. Can someone please tell me where I need to actually go to get his pension papers? Thank you Greg Matthews

Dave, I think it was in my first response to you (or maybe that was to someone else??) I gave a link to see the medal your relative would have been entitled to, if he served for 90 days during the actual period of the war, but not overseas. The link is http://www.spanamwar.com/medalsarmy.htm I saw another email (from Lorraine?) that gave more specifics on the medals, and that should probably answer most of your questions Patrick McSherry

I received 191 pages, full of more than I ever dreamed! His medical records, his different addresses, his family was named and mentioned (although all lies) and so many other things. I waited about a year and a half, finally having to contact my congressman, whose aid made a simple call and it arrived days later. Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: David Stroebel <davidstroebel@yahoo.com> To: Patrick McSherry <pmm@redrose.net> Cc: SPAN-AM-WAR <SPAN-AM-WAR@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 11:23 am Subject: [SPAN-AM-WAR] What will be in a Span-Am Pension File? What else can I expect to find in the pension file? Will it list names of elatives in Germany if the veteran was born in Germany? He was born there in 876 and died in Albany, NY in 1958. It should arrive in about one month. hanks From: Patrick McSherry <pmm@redrose.net> o: 'David Stroebel' <davidstroebel@yahoo.com>; span-am-war@rootsweb.com ent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:08 PM ubject: RE: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service?(Patrick cSherry) The pension record is the best account of his service. If should include a ummary of his service and list his unit. The pension records would note verseas service also. -----Original Message----- rom: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Stroebel ent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:33 AM o: span-am-war@rootsweb.com ubject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign ervice?(Patrick McSherry) I neglected to tell you that my relative received a pension for his service n the S-A War and I have his pension file card. Does this help determine hay kind of service he had? hanks avid ww.davidstroebel _______________________________ rom: CW Marshall <marshallcw80@gmail.com> o: span-am-war@rootsweb.com ent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:19 PM ubject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? Patrick McSherry) atrick, This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going earch for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service ecords. If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or tate), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle ones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still onsidered veterans of the SAW? What about the Philippines War that ollowed? Taking this another level, if they never actually served n combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live n old soldiers homes when they got older? If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by nit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they ctually shipped out and served in battle? Just to clarify and so we on't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of he service, not just the Army. Thanks Patrick. -Charles t 12:01 AM 4/27/2012, you wrote: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:39:43 -0400 From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> Keep in mind that "serving with Theodore Roosevelt" meant different things to different people. Context was important...a simple comment could have been changed through family oral tradition. "Serving with Teddy" can mean anything from being with the Rough Riders to being at the same camp in Florida or New York where the Rough Riders happened to be before and after their service to serving in the Spanish American War, "you know the one ith Teddy Roosevelt" to distinguish from service in World War One, for nstance. Believe me...I have tracked down many cases like this...very few really ver had anyone who action served time with Roosevelt (in some cases they were n the same camp...in other cases, there was no way they could have even crossed paths...in still others, they ended up being Rough Riders. The latter can be counted on the fingers of less than one hand). You didn't indicate your relative's military unit, which would answer many questions...keep in mind that a sizeable portion of the Rough Riders never left the U.S., for instance. If your relative served in the Army during the war for at least 90 days, at a place in the U.S., he would have been eligible for the Spanish American War Army Service Medal (see http://www.spanamwar.com/medalsarmy ). To get his medal from the government, have documentation *proving* he deserved it, and talk to your local congressman (there are other routes...but this works best. Congressmen like to please you). The other route is to but one of the medals on-line. Patrick McSherry LEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

What else can I expect to find in the pension file? Will it list names of relatives in Germany if the veteran was born in Germany? He was born there in 1876 and died in Albany, NY in 1958. It should arrive in about one month.  Thanks From: Patrick McSherry <pmm@redrose.net> To: 'David Stroebel' <davidstroebel@yahoo.com>; span-am-war@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:08 PM Subject: RE: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service?(Patrick McSherry) The pension record is the best account of his service. If should include a summary of his service and list his unit. The pension records would note overseas service also. -----Original Message----- From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Stroebel Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:33 AM To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service?(Patrick McSherry) I neglected to tell you that my relative received a pension for his service in the S-A War and I have his pension file card. Does this help determine whay kind of service he had?   Thanks   David www.davidstroebel ________________________________ From: CW Marshall <marshallcw80@gmail.com> To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? (Patrick McSherry)   Patrick, This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going search for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service records.  If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or state), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle zones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still considered veterans of the SAW?  What about the Philippines War that followed?  Taking this another level, if they never actually served in combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live in old soldiers homes when they got older? If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by unit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they actually shipped out and served in battle?  Just to clarify and so we don't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of the service, not just the Army.  Thanks Patrick. -Charles At 12:01 AM 4/27/2012, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:39:43 -0400 >From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> > >Keep in mind that "serving with Theodore Roosevelt" meant different things >to different people. Context was important...a simple comment could have >been changed through family oral tradition. "Serving with Teddy" can mean >anything from being with the Rough Riders to being at the same camp in >Florida or New York where the Rough Riders happened to be before and after >their service to serving in the Spanish American War, "you know the one with >Teddy Roosevelt" to distinguish from service in World War One, for instance. >Believe me...I have tracked down many cases like this...very few really ever >had anyone who action served time with Roosevelt (in some cases they were in >the same camp...in other cases, there was no way they could have even >crossed paths...in still others, they ended up being Rough Riders. The >latter can be counted on the fingers of less than one hand). > >You didn't indicate your relative's military unit, which would answer many >questions...keep in mind that a sizeable portion of the Rough Riders never >left the U.S., for instance. > >If your relative served in the Army during the war for at least 90 days, at >a place in the U.S., he would have been eligible for the Spanish American >War Army Service Medal (see http://www.spanamwar.com/medalsarmy ). > >To get his medal from the government, have documentation *proving* he >deserved it, and talk to your local congressman (there are other >routes...but this works best. Congressmen like to please you). The other >route is to but one of the medals on-line. > >Patrick McSherry > PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Now we're getting somewhere.  Below is from Army Regulation 600-8-22 here http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_22.pdf  There were two medals for the Span-Am War. One for service for boots on the ground in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Philippines.   Hope this helps, Dave   5–22. Spanish Campaign MedalThis medal was established by War Department General Order 5, 1905. It is awarded for service ashore in, or on the high seas en route to, any of the following countries:a. Cuba between 11 May and 17 July 1898.b. Puerto Rico between 24 July and 13 August 1898.c.  5–23. Spanish War Service MedalThis medal was established by the act of 9 July 1918 (40 Stat. 873). It is awarded for service between 20 April 1898 and 11 April 1899, to persons not eligible for the Spanish Campaign Medal.  5–24. Army of Cuban Occupation MedalThis medal was established by War Department General Order 40, 1915. It is awarded for service in Cuba between 18 July 1898 and 20 May 1902.  5–25. Army of Puerto Rican Occupation MedalThis medal was established by War Department Compilation of Orders, changes 15, 4 February 1919. It is awarded for service in Puerto Rico between 14 August and 10 December 1898.  5–26. Philippine Campaign MedalThis medal was established by War Department General Order 5, 1905. It is awarded for service in the Philippine Islands under any of the following conditions:a. Ashore between 4 February 1899 and 4 July 1902.b. Ashore in the Department of Mindanao between 4 February 1899 and 31 December 1904.c. 30 June 1907.Against the Pulajanes on Leyte between 20 July 1906 and 30 June 1907, or on Samar between 2 August 1904 andd. (1) Against Pala on Jolo between April and May 1905. (2) Against Datu Ali on Mindanao in October 1905. (3) Against hostile Moros on Mount Bud-Dajo, Jolo, March 1906. From: Antoinette Waughtel Sorensen <waughtel33@gmail.com> To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? (Patrick McSherry) Yes, great explanation <smile>.  My grandfather & two of his brothers served - but during the Philippine Insurrection (s this correctly named, as such).  My grandfather served in the Philippines, one brother in Cuba, and the other I would have to check as I don't recall just where he served). All received pensions. Antoinette (Tacoma, Washington) On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Patrick McSherry <pmm@redrose.net> wrote: > > Charles, > > Good to hear from you again. > > The answers are actually quite straight forward. If your relative enlisted > or served in the military between April and December 10, 1898, he is a > veteran of the Spanish American War. He did not need to serve overseas > (comparatively few did) or see combat. He was entitled to a pension even if > he defended the coast of New Jersey... Remember, the deadliest place to > serve was probably in a training camp in the U.S. as that is, by far, where > most of the deaths occurred (also, keep in mind that someone could have > served at Fort Dix, New Jersey during WWII, and he or she would still be > considered a veteran of WWII). > > Any veteran was entitled to apply for a pension. He didn't need to go > overseas. > > Veterans of the Philippine American War and the Boxer Rebellion are listed > in all government documents, including government-issued gravestones as > "Spanish American War veterans." The reason is beyond the scope of this > brief answer, but basically, there was a fund set up for Spanish American > War vets, and not for the other conflicts, and also, initially, there was a > misconception that the Philippine American War was going to be a brief > mop-up affair, and lastly, there was spill-over in the troops serving the > Philippines between the two conflicts. > > Is there a comprehensive list of Spanish American War vets? No. This was > made muckier by the fact that Philippine American War and Boxer Rebellion > vets are listed in the records as Spanish American War vets. > > Patrick McSherry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:span-am-war-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CW Marshall > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:20 PM > To: span-am-war@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SPAN-AM-WAR] Was the SP-AM War Considered Foreign Service? > (Patrick McSherry) > > Patrick, > > This raises an interesting question that might help in my on-going > search for my Great-grandfather's illusive military service > records.  If soldiers (or sailors) were in military units (federal or > state), recruited, trained and prepared to deploy into the battle > zones but were never actually shipped out, were those men still > considered veterans of the SAW?  What about the Philippines War that > followed?  Taking this another level, if they never actually served > in combat, would they still be eligible to draw VA pensions or live > in old soldiers homes when they got older? > > If not, is there a way, other than going state by state, unit by > unit, to find the names of all of these men, whether or not they > actually shipped out and served in battle?  Just to clarify and so we > don't leave anything out, my question would apply to any branch of > the service, not just the Army.  Thanks Patrick. > > -Charles > > > At 12:01 AM 4/27/2012, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:39:43 -0400 > >From: "Patrick McSherry" <pmm@redrose.net> > > > >Keep in mind that "serving with Theodore Roosevelt" meant different things > >to different people. Context was important...a simple comment could have > >been changed through family oral tradition. "Serving with Teddy" can mean > >anything from being with the Rough Riders to being at the same camp in > >Florida or New York where the Rough Riders happened to be before and after > >their service to serving in the Spanish American War, "you know the one > with > >Teddy Roosevelt" to distinguish from service in World War One, for > instance. > >Believe me...I have tracked down many cases like this...very few really > ever > >had anyone who action served time with Roosevelt (in some cases they were > in > >the same camp...in other cases, there was no way they could have even > >crossed paths...in still others, they ended up being Rough Riders. The > >latter can be counted on the fingers of less than one hand). > > > >You didn't indicate your relative's military unit, which would answer many > >questions...keep in mind that a sizeable portion of the Rough Riders never > >left the U.S., for instance. > > > >If your relative served in the Army during the war for at least 90 days, > at > >a place in the U.S., he would have been eligible for the Spanish American > >War Army Service Medal (see http://www.spanamwar.com/medalsarmy ). > > > >To get his medal from the government, have documentation *proving* he > >deserved it, and talk to your local congressman (there are other > >routes...but this works best. Congressmen like to please you). The other > >route is to but one of the medals on-line. > > > >Patrick McSherry > > > > > PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > PLEASE CHECK EACH OF YOUR SUBJECT LINES! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SPAN-AM-WAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message With any of the following expeditions: Philippine Islands between 30 June and 16 August 1898.