--part1_b942ca21.24db4e2b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_b942ca21.24db4e2b_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from aol.com (rly-zd02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.226]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:10:56 -0400 Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:10:42 -0400 Received: from default (host-209-214-77-96.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.77.96]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (3.3.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22812 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:12:26 -0400 From: Harold Harrison <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: SouthGen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Scots-Irish Migration & Record-Keeping References: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [email protected] wrote: > > In a message dated 8/5/99 8:51:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > There is a greater chance that the SC families > > living in the Upcountry(Spartanburg, District 96, Chester, etc) were > > from Pennsylvania than from Scotland/Ireland. There were some families > > direct from Scotland/Ireland to the SC coast who did move to the > > upcountry between 1760 and 1790. The earlier the family was in the > > upcountry SC the greater the chances they were from Pennsylvania. > > Hi Harold! As a general proposition, I agree with you entirely. There was a > message a month or so ago, however, from somebody who had info on a KNOX > family who came directly from Ireland to SC ca. 1760-70 and settled in York > County. They had one son named James and another named John. And if I recall > the details correctly, another son died at sea during the voyage. Of course, > we don't have proof that these people were the same KNOXes of > Pendleton/Pickens, but the theory fits the known facts pretty well, > especially since we also have information from the Pendleton newspaper obit > of the John KNOX who died in 1828 that he was born in Ireland ca. 1764. So > until additional facts come to light, my subjective probability estimate is > about 75% that the Pendleton/Pickens KNOXes came to SC directly from Ireland, > with only about a 25% probability that they passed thru Pennsylvania on the > way to SC. I am certainly not wedded to this interpretation, however, so I > welcome criticism from you and others. > > I have never seen info to the effect that any significant number of the North > Carolina Scots-Irish came directly to the Carolinas from Ireland. So I am > assuming that virtually all of the NC KNOX families passed thru PA before > going south. Please correct me if I am wrong on this point. > > It is also certainly very true that SOME Scots-Irish families were highly > educated and were very good record keepers, especially those who kept close > ties to the Presbyterian church. But I think it is safe to say that as a > general rule, most of them were not. [I take as my authority on this point > the excellent book by David Hackett Fisher, "Albion's Seed," which has long > discussions contrasting the Scots-Irish with the English settlers in colonial > North America.] Moreover, it seems to me that the families who stayed on the > move and kept on pushing toward the frontier, as did my BROWNs, were probably > worse educated and worse as record keepers than those Scots-Irish who stayed > in the Atlantic coastal states. > > As a final note, it should be observed that not all the "Scots-Irish" > actually had roots in Scotland, nor did they always live in Ireland before > coming to America. According to David Hackett Fisher ("Albion's Seed" -- a > book I can't recommend too much!), these people had their roots in the border > region between Scotland and England. Since the border was constantly > shifting, and since many a "Scottish" clan had land on both sides of the > border, the so-called "Scots-Irish" were as much northern Englishmen as they > were southern Scotsmen. Fisher prefers to call them "borderers." But the term > "Scots-Irish" is still OK by me. > > Regards, Jim Brown ([email protected]) Hello again Jim Very interesting. With the newspaper account of them being from Ireland would give much creedence to you scenerio. As for Scot/Irish entering the Carolinas there were many who entered from the port of Charleston SC. I have found most were from Antrim Ireland. I have 14,000 names in my database. I jsut like collecting info and compiling stats. I have found almost all of my Scot/Irish had ties to the Presbyterian Church. Over half my direct ancestors are Scotish or Scot/Irish. I cannot recall any of them that could not read or write. I find two instances of illeteracy.One instance was a family of English Quakers who married the Irish. The second was just after the War of Southern Independence. The poorer the Southern families lost after the War seem to be followed a lose of education. I find no lose of education with my families who moved. The average family back then moved 6 times during a lifetime. I have traced movements from Va/Pa area through NC to SC/Ga to Al to Ms to Tx. I have not read Albions Seed . It does sound like worthwhile reading. While I am no exbert on the Scot/Irish I have read and conversed with researchers and genealogist about the subject. It is my understanding the term Scot/Irish comes from the Scotish people who were forced or fled Scotland to northern Ireland then to the colonies. I sure many scots were given the label Scot/Irish because the ship they entered the colonies came directly from Ireland. The term border Scots were those Scots who lived on the border of Englang and Scotland. The English hated the Scots and were all the time trying ti steal their land. The Scots took offence and did battle. The English were so upset with the Scotish retaliation they ran the warring border scots out of scotland. They captured many and sent them to the plantations in Northern Ireland. Many Scots died at the hand of the English. Many scots died on their sail to the new world from being packed on ships trying to flee the English. They suffered from sickness and starvation. Border Scots and Scot/Irish are two different term. It does get interesting doesn't it. Harold --part1_b942ca21.24db4e2b_boundary--